Why does Spider-Man's mask keep coming off!

[DyeLorean]

This is a very interesting topic.
I read all the posts, I got a lot in my mind, I can't answer every post, but I will say this: to get the expressions of a character, in this case SpiderMan/Parker, we don't need to see his face the entire time. I posted in the SM3 forum, that I hated how many times he takes off his mask, some of them needed, and most of them not. All what Raimi has to do is make SpiderMan to talk a little bit more with the mask on. Raimi's translation of the character to the cinema needs to emphatize (sp?) the humour Spidey has, like that line somebody mentioned ("here's your change"). This SpiderMan needs more of that, he's too nerdy. Needs to be more funny in my opinion. That has always been a trademark in the comics.

In my opinion the reason why Spidey keeps taking off/losing his mask is quite simple. They paid Maguire like 10 million bucks so they have to use him in as many scenes as possible.

That's also very true.

Tobey is not the same caliber of actor that Weaving is.

Although they were talking about masks, I have to disagree at something here. Tobey re-creates the character the way Raimi wants, it doesn't matter, is not Tobey's fault that the character doesn't make justice to the one in the comics.

The Vendetta mask had facial features.
Spidey's mask does not. Apples and Oranges

Spiderman's mask has 2 big eyes... so what? A mask is a mask. And I like both apples and oranges, so what?

D!

 

[El Payaso]

I think Raimi wanted to show Spidey's emotions and that's possible only with the mask off.

Still I don't get how or why Peter would risk his identity taking the mask off on alleys and such since people in NYC has windows, cameras and binoculars. Even the burnt mask - even if understandable - was for me not a great reason to expose the secret idenity to the whole train.

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

Still I don't get how or why Peter would risk his identity taking the mask off on alleys and such since people in NYC has windows, cameras and binoculars. Even the burnt mask - even if understandable - was for me not a great reason to expose the secret idenity to the whole train.

Spider-Man can get away with taking off his mask in alleys, on rooftops, ect on account of his spider-sense warning him if whether or not someone's around.
On the other hand, Spider-Man's shamless display of showing off his unmasked face to a crowd of New Yorkers or removing his mask to a deadly foe is unexusable. This is the main thing which ruined Spider-Man 2 for me. Spidey's credo includes "responsibility". Where's his responsibility to his loved ones' lives when he constantly fails to protect his secret identity?
And as much a fan as I am of the first Spider-Man film, there were two scenes leading up to the problems of the second film. Listed here..
1) Peter displaying his powers in front of his highschool classmates.
2) Peter not bothering to put on his mask while rescuing MJ from some punks in an alley.
Between this, and the second movie, you'd figure everyone should know what he at least looks like through eyewitnesses.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Yeah because Spidey revealing his true face to the public goes against the comics in everyway.

As for why he does take of his mask, it’s so Tobey can act, in the times that he is confused about his powers his mask is of so Tobey can show his confusion; otherwise all we would have is a guy in a motionless mask staring blankly at the screen. He takes it of for the train so he can show strain; otherwise all we would have is a motionless body on the screen. He takes it off in front of Ock because he thinks it’s the best thing to do at the time, as Spider-Man he has no connection with Ock but as Peter he does. Also he's not putting his love ones at any risk because Ock already knows that he can get to Spidey through Peter Parker.

As for wise cracks etc, you try getting thrown around and talking, you can't do it. It’s only that way in the comics for reader interaction. The internal monologue is an option but then again maybe Raimi realizes that film is a visual medium at and to have a continuous internal monologue explaining everything is easy as ****.

 

[OcStat]

first: a transparent mask? give me a break. then every one hear would be whining about how the costume isnt "comic book accurate"

second: raimi puts in spider-mans witty one-liners, you all say his lines are cheesy, and say "if i wanted ghost riders lame one-liners, id watch ghost rider!"

 

[Anti-Venom]

The reason is very simple.

Raimi wants to see Parker's face. As a director, he wants to see Peter's face as much as possible.

 

[The Joker]

The reason is very simple.

Raimi wants to see Parker's face. As a director, he wants to see Peter's face as much as possible.

Exactly.

 

[SamuraiSon6]

i think its so you connect with him on a personal level

 

[dodus]

Do you guys remember the scene in Spider-man 1 when the Goblin kidnaps him and takes him to the rooftop to give him the "let's join forces" speech? Now, I don't hate this scene in anyway, but you have to admit, something about it is off and it's not working despite Dafoe's best efforts to ham it up. So what's not working?

What's not working is two people in masks talking to each other. Without a face, our brains don't process that an interpersonal interaction is happening.

 

[hyperDrive]

When Spiderman took off his mask during the train scene and all those people saw who he was and those kids said 'We won't tell anyone, Spiderman", or something like that, I think this is considered a loose end. There are people who know who Spiderman is! HOWEVER, I think in Spiderman 3, they could have tied up this loose end.

If they used Chameleon instead of Sandman in Spiderman 3, Spiderman could have remained mysterious.

Here's how it works. Say for example, Peter Parker is walking around Broadway with Mary Jane and they bump into some people who recognize Peter Parker. They ask "Hey, aren't you Spiderman who was on the train?"

As shocked as Peter Parker is, he stutters and cannot find an answer. Then as the stranger is looking at Parker, they see a fake Spiderman swing around the buildings. This fake Spiderman is obviously Chameleon. Ironically, this makes the public think Peter Parker is not Spiderman.

Anyways, this is what I thought about. I find it awkward when so many people know who Spiderman really is.

What do you guys think?

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

I find is awkward when so many people know who Spiderman really is.

What do you guys think?[/quote]
....and "dangerous"! In the comics Parker safegaurds his secret identity sometimes to extremes. In the Raimi films he comes across as very careless, almost hoping that the world will find out who he really is. Bye, bye Aunt may & MJ..

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

Do you guys remember the scene in Spider-man 1 when the Goblin kidnaps him and takes him to the rooftop to give him the "let's join forces" speech? Now, I don't hate this scene in anyway, but you have to admit, something about it is off and it's not working despite Dafoe's best efforts to ham it up. So what's not working?

What's not working is two people in masks talking to each other. Without a face, our brains don't process that an interpersonal interaction is happening.

Personally, I think the scene worked out geat. What you call Dafoe hamming it up, I rather see him acting like a madman.
As far as two people talking in masks? The movie is comic based and entitled, "Spider-Man"!! It's not supposed to be two fellas in business suits here. Try useing your imagination and remember where the source material originally comes from.

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

As for wise cracks etc, you try getting thrown around and talking, you can't do it. It’s only that way in the comics for reader interaction. The internal monologue is an option but then again maybe Raimi realizes that film is a visual medium at and to have a continuous internal monologue explaining everything is easy as ****.[/quote]
The banter can come and go between getting thrown around if that's what it takes. Look at the movie "V" or even as far back as "The Adventures Of Robin Hood" both heroes in these movies had that wise cracking banter while in conflict, giving them much more charcter and personality. Raimi is robbing Spider-Man of this!
Without his "trademark" quick wit, it's just another guy in a suit.

 

[dodus]

Personally, I think the scene worked out geat. What you call Dafoe hamming it up, I rather see him acting like a madman.
As far as two people talking in masks? The movie is comic based and entitled, "Spider-Man"!! It's not supposed to be two fellas in business suits here. Try useing your imagination and remember where the source material originally comes from.

I wasn't criticizing Dafoe's performance, I was saying that the scene doesn't work in spite of it being awesome. I know what the movie is based on, what I'm saying, and everyone in previously has said that made the same point, is that being confronted with actual moving images of real people, you have to play by different rules than in the comics, and two people having a conversation with masks on doesn't work as well on film like it does in the comics.

 

[Havok83]

I thought I was the only one that hated how he keeps fighting umasked. Hello secret identity! I felt it came off way too much

 

[The Joker]

Glad the critics and majority of the fan base don't feel this way

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

I thought I was the only one that hated how he keeps fighting umasked. Hello secret identity! I felt it came off way too much

You aren't alone with this.

 

[OcStat]

how are the people on his train going to know his identity. they just saw his face! they didnt take out his drivers liscense or SS card. there are millions of people in new york, the odds of them bumping into peter walking down the street are slim. (specially since he usually gets around as spider-man)

 

[Havok83]

how are the people on his train going to know his identity. they just saw his face! they didnt take out his drivers liscense or SS card. there are millions of people in new york, the odds of them bumping into peter walking down the street are slim. (specially since he usually gets around as spider-man)

ever heard of police sketchers? They could have gone to an artist and given an accurate description of Spider-man and sold that to the newspapers. Im sure the Daily Bugle would have paid quite a sum for that exclusive.

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

how are the people on his train going to know his identity. they just saw his face! they didnt take out his drivers liscense or SS card. there are millions of people in new york, the odds of them bumping into peter walking down the street are slim. (specially since he usually gets around as spider-man)

To quote Stan Lee: "Being that Spider-Man's features are completely covered by his costume, anyone can be behind the mask. He could be caucasion, african-american, asian, ect."

Now with the mystery blown, and many a New York eyewitness, we have a very good description here. You figure Jameson would pay top dollar to know who he really is. To make it short, I'm sure that at least two of those people on the subway would sell you out if the price was right. And as for those two little lads promising never to tell??? "Oh brother". I'm sure this little story of "unmasked Spidey" is spread through their school within a week! I wish we did live in an angelic and honorable world, but sadly that's not the case. In the comics he wears that mask for a reason. That same reason should remain in the film adaptions.

 

[OcStat]

thats always a possiblity, but id like to think the people he just saved from certain death wouldnt sell him out.

guess thats just the nice guy in me.

 

[Havok83]

thats always a possiblity, but id like to think the people he just saved from certain death wouldnt sell him out.

guess thats just the nice guy in me.

haha, you've never been to NY have ya?

 

[zanos]

Yeah because Spidey revealing his true face to the public goes against the comics in everyway.

As for why he does take of his mask, it’s so Tobey can act, in the times that he is confused about his powers his mask is of so Tobey can show his confusion; otherwise all we would have is a guy in a motionless mask staring blankly at the screen. He takes it of for the train so he can show strain; otherwise all we would have is a motionless body on the screen.

Isn't that precisely what happens in the cartoons? Yet no one seems to have a problem with that. As for the train sequence you can achieve the same effect by making half his mask transparent for closeups just like they do in the comics. It's easy.

He takes it off in front of Ock because he thinks it’s the best thing to do at the time, as Spider-Man he has no connection with Ock but as Peter he does. Also he's not putting his love ones at any risk because Ock already knows that he can get to Spidey through Peter Parker.

Raimi does this because that's what Burton did with Keaton at the end of the Batman 2. Raimi likes copying from the Superman and Batman films.

As for wise cracks etc, you try getting thrown around and talking, you can't do it. It’s only that way in the comics for reader interaction. The internal monologue is an option but then again maybe Raimi realizes that film is a visual medium at and to have a continuous internal monologue explaining everything is easy as ****.

I see. Is that why it was so effortless for Robert Rodriguez to do this for the Marv character from Sin City as the most recent example of this technique? Jesus. People act as though this was rocket science.

 

[The Joker]

Raimi does this because that's what Burton did with Keaton at the end of the Batman 2. Raimi likes copying from the Superman and Batman films.

There was alot of similarities between Superman 3 and Spider-Man 3.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Glad I did not see them.