Why I don't want Cap revived in Avengers

Discussion in 'Captain America: The First Avenger' started by marvel_freshman, May 23, 2009.

  1. Artistsean Monkey Boy

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    Showing a quick scene of the Hulk causing the finding of Steve's body would be nice, it does show how Nick Fury would have found him, and it is similar to the comic (Namor finding Steve's body) so it works that way too.

    Otherwise, why would Nick Fury and Stark find Steve's body?
    They could always explain it by saying Stark figured out the trajectory and all that and figured out where Steve might have landed.

    I want to see the scene from the Ultimates (where Stark finds the body) at the end of some movie. Like at the End of Cap's movie.
    I can see the movie being mostly a WWII origin movie, having it end with Captain America, Bucky perhaps, trying to stop a Nazi plain and finding out its a trap. The plain explodes and maybe we see Cap's body pushed out of the plain by the explosion.
    Then the end credits.
    After the credits (like with Iron Man or with the Hulk) we get a special scene.
    We see base camp and a bunch of people in parkas and such, one races to the main tent, inside we see Tony Stark as the man tells him "Mr. Stark, We Found Him!"
    Cut to Stark and the explorers gathered around a frozen body in a chuck of Ice."
    END.


    Then in the Avengers, or the second Cap movie, or whatever, we have a brief recap in the form of a nightmare. Steve becomes Cap, Cap and Bucky in plain explosion, Cap wakes in a cold sweat. He is suddenly in an unknown room (a SHIELD hospital room in present time.)
    I don't want the Avengers to be the Captain America movie guest starring the Avengers. But as a side note, or setting up Cap's part of the story, this could work maybe.
     
  2. Wesley Dodds He Who Lurks...

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    I just remembered... At the end of TIH, when Stark says to Ross "There's a reason the super soldier was put on ice, general...". Would it not be fair to presume from that line that SHIELD/the government froze Rogers themselves?
     
  3. Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger

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    Well maybe that line could have meant why the program ended and wasnt really used again after ww2.
     
  4. Spider-Vader Mercin' & Workin'

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    I think it should be like that but instead of the movie ending with the plane exploding, there should be a scene with people mourning the loss of Cap & then a shot of Cap frozen in the ice. The screen goes black, then construction noises are heard & the scene you said comes on.

    I doubt it.
     
  5. IronJoe Registered

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    This brings up an interesting thought - is Captain America found on accident, or because he is being "looked for?"
     
  6. Rich Santoro Addicted to degeneracy

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    I really don't like the idea of SHIELD, Fury, Stark, or anyone really actively looking for Cap. How the hell would they know that he is frozen??? Why would they be looking for him 6 decades later??? It seems too contrived.

    I would rather that he is found by pure chance, by adventure-hikers or something like that, making their way across a glacier in the acrtic. Someone sees "something" in a large crevasse. They go down and dig to expose the shield, then notice a facial shape just below the ice. They kind of quietly freak out. Someone digs out the dog tags and realizes that this is a US soldier from WWII.

    The scene jumps to the pentagon, and some official (Sec. of Defense maybe), or some general... is briefed that the State Department has notified them that the US Embassy in Norway has identified the remains of a fallen US soldier from WWII, and is having him flown into DC. The general / official is mildly interested... after all, that would be quite a thing. Then the speaker says, it is Captain Steve Rogers... then the general / official really perks up.

    He says, are they certain???

    Yes sir, it has been confirmed.

    Get someone to the landing strip immediately, and bring him here. Notify Director Fury's office and General Greller (the black general that seemed to be a star or two above General Ross in TIH).

    Jump to a scene when the frozen soldier is being wheeled to a observation room. Fury, the original official / general and Greller (perhaps a couple others) are bickering about some stuff... then Fury says, this situation falls directly within our investigative juristiction. There are important things for us to analyze before Captain Roger's remains can be remitted to military custody. Greller makes a look, but says nothing (foreshadowing to the fact that he knows Ross has his own Super Soldier pet project going on... meaning that this event takes place prior to the events of TIH).

    We see a couple of doctors about to do an autopsy, when one notices the ever so slight movement of the chest... he pauses and stays perfectly still. He stares at the chest looking to confirm movement. The other doctor says, what???

    Shhh...

    The first doc hustles across the room to get a stethescope, and the other says, what are you doing... He ignores and gently places the stethescope on Roger's chest and listens... His eyes goes wide with surprise... The camera angle looks directly at Roger's face from overhead... and then zooms in (as though to enter his mind and thoughts... flashing back to a scrawny kid standing on a street corner with a bunch of people gathered around a radio, listenning to the Rossevelt Infamy speech).

    Then it goes from there.
     
    #31 Rich Santoro, Jul 9, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
  7. Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger

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    That could be one way to go about it.
     
  8. Rich Santoro Addicted to degeneracy

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    ^ LOL... yes, I guess it could be :yay:

    I would like to see the movie go full circle, and come to the conclusion of the WWII segment with his falling into the ice crevasse and his consciousness going black... a long pause with a black screen, then eyes slowly openning in a hospital room.

    Not sure if it would be best for that to happen at the conclusion of the film, or somewhere mid-point so that a modern day segment can take place in that Cap film (recovering / training, and possibly a mission, prior to the Avengers assembling).

    I would like for Cap to have been thawed and undergoing some field action in modern times, in a time frame prior to the IM timeline. This would be so that the discovery of Cap, is what inspires Fury to start tracking and recruiting super beings for a special operation force. Thus he sends Coulson to go get Stark.
     
    #33 Rich Santoro, Jul 10, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
  9. IronJoe Registered

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    I agree. Found by chance seems like a much better opening.
     
  10. Artistsean Monkey Boy

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    Happen by chance makes more sense, in the comics the Avengers happen to find him but that was to keep the story short and uncomplicated.
    But if adventurers find Cap's frozen body and then word makes it back to SHIELD,
    It could be like on Law and Order...
    Mountain Climbers in the arctic, possibly an accidental avalanche.
    The Climbers are OK but they see a frozen body.
    Cut to Nick Fury and SHIELD on the mountain, swarming the area...

    It also makes sense that Fury, maybe even Stark himself, figured out the trajectory of the exploding bomb plain and figured out (using his vast intelligence), where he would have fallen...
    BUT having him found by chance mountain climbers would probably work much better.

    I still want to see the discovery of Cap's body to be one of the surprise cliffhanger endings that Marvel has been doing...

    SHIELD Agent- Colonel Fury... You better get down here Sir. Your not going to believe what those mountain climbers found...
    [​IMG]
     
    #35 Artistsean, Jul 10, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  11. Styleshift Airman

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    I'm not a big Cap aficionado, but I do believe the first avenger should be set in the past.
    I think they should concentrate on developing Cap's character so we know who he is and how he works. Why he is such a great team leader.

    That would make him sooo much more essential to the team in the avengers movie. Face it, compared to all the other heroes he does seem corny unless you know about him. Not many movie goers do.

    Just my opinion. :)
     
  12. Artistsean Monkey Boy

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    I was thinking of that too.
    Establish his character in the past, not only his character but the time he comes from and his environment. That way when he is revived in the year 2000 something it will show the drastic change for him.
    It will also help, as you mentioned, establish who he is and how he works in modern times. It will be that much more powerful if we get a full movie, or even a little over half I guess, to set up his life during WWII.
    It could really emphasize that his life was paused or halted while being frozen, give it more of a jolting effect maybe.

    I still want the Avenger movie to be about each and every member, but I think Cap needs almost a whole movie to establish his life before being frozen.
     
  13. Rich Santoro Addicted to degeneracy

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    In this vein, a portion of the film should be dedicated to events prior to his actual recruitment. Showing him living in 1940s NY. Then the big recruitment and transformation sequences... then off to war.

    I want to see Cap revived at the end of his own movie... Then left as a cliff-hanger with him onthe road to recovery... I don't want to see a modern day adaptation sequence with the man-out-of-time theme. However... I don't want to see too much of the Avengers dealing with that theme either. It is a bit of a quandry for me.

    ====================================
    The best way to conclude the Cap's solo movie is for him to open his eyes in a hospital bed, with Fury looking down at him.

    Fury says, "Welcome home Captain Rogers."

    Cap has a puzzled, fatigued look on his face... he tries to lift his hand but only grunts and sags back.

    The doc says, "He is in no condition for any excitement, he needs to rest."

    Fury, "Not too long... I want a physical therapy team getting this man back on his feet as quickly as possible."

    Doc, "We need to run the full battery tests to assess his cognitive functions, as well as, his physical state. Just 3 weeks ago, this man was clinically brain-dead. Now he is just waking from a coma. Although he is actually progressing, we don't want to rush things... his condition is very critical. It is a miracle that he has even made it this far."

    Fury, "No doctor. This man's recovery is not the miracle. This man IS the miracle. He represents the unlimited potential that resides within this creature called man. He is the peak of the human mind, body and spirit. He has come back to us by fate, or by luck... but never have we needed him more. He changes everything doctor."

    Credits roll...

    Then have an openning montage in the Avengers showing him undergoing therapy from learning to walk, and developing his basic motor skills... to him sparring with three attackers, and doing acrobatics... also reading, and learning how to access a computer and the internet... This can be meshed with some montage clips of other loose ends for the other superheroes, covering events from between their solo movies ending and the Avengers films beginning.
     
    #38 Rich Santoro, Jul 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  14. bubbadoom Registered

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    Did any of you guys see the Captain America movie from the '90's. What some of you are describing is just that movie - and it was crap! Telling his origin, sending him on a mission, getting frozen, being found, and having an adventure in the present was too much story for one movie resulting in none of it getting the screen time it deserved.

    I do not understand the negative response to keeping the solo movie set in WWII, it ending with him being an established hero still fighting the Nazis and leaving the door open for sequels set in the war. By using the Avengers as the vehicle to bring him into the present [just like Marvel did in the '60's] the option of more WWII adventures it still there. A prologue in the Avengers movie with him being frozen seems the best bet, then he can be found, revived and join the team - just like Stan and Jack did.
     
  15. Joined:
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    The film is about 2 hours long so the first hour and a half can be about Cap in WWII and the last half hour can be about how SHIELD discovers the body. My Idea is that a Shield Submarine was underwater where the Hulk caused the Avalanche thing from TIH and the Sub picks up Cap. They bring him to Shield HQ and bring him back to life and we have Stark and Fury recruit him to Avengers.
     
  16. Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger

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    actually superhero 101 marvel has stated the film will be ww2 at most if anything is present day its will be closing scene/after credit scene to tie him getting discovered/revived and lead to avengers.
     
  17. [A] Registered

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    Niiiiice. Too bad it'll only exist if a fan makes it..
     
  18. Spider-Vader Mercin' & Workin'

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    No to the Cap movie being in present day unless there's a scene at the end of the movie where he's discovered by SHIELD or Iron Man or something.

    [A] I'm pretty sure "Kirk's dad" is a reference to the same actor playing Thor. Unless, your comment was a joke inwhich I'm a ******.
     
  19. RaZaTrOn Registered

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    I can see this.. but instead of using that scene they could use that particular event for example

    An Agent of SHIELD picks up on an 'earthquake' where Banner has just Hulked out and smashed the Glacier.
    She/He yells to Nick Fury 'check this out Sir' he comes over and he asks to get some satellite imagery of that location.. The image comes up and we can see birds eye view of Hulk smashing the glacier and it rippling outwards... the computer then identifies another person on the screen moving fast (the body of Cap)
    Fury has it slowed down... he sees Red White and Blue.. followed quickly by 'Forget the Hulk, get a team to that location, we've just hit the jackpot'

    Replace my cheesy dialouge with something more professional and i think we have either the beginning to Captain America before the titles role or The Avengers.

    I think it would work well as a beginning to Captain America... After the titles it can start in WWII and continue up until the very point he gets frozen. Then maybe follow on a bit from the opening scene.

    What do you think?
     
  20. Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger

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    well i would prefer my self to have closing scene in cap or after credit scene of him being found and discovered in present day. So then avengers can get right to the nitty gritty business.
     
  21. RaZaTrOn Registered

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    I can't be an after credits scene due to the fact hardly any of the general public stay after credits. So really they won't know whats going on.

    They might as well stick the extra minute pre credits because at the end of the day it still adds up run time.
     
  22. Stripesy Strip Eat That, Jimmy Olsen!

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    I would prefer if the whole movie would be spent in WW2 because to me it's the best aspect of Captain America. I really want to see how Cap fought in the war, how he fought the Nazies, all of this went down. Just doing that would take a huge amount of work and care and if you only do half in WWII and half in present it's a cheat. Especially since you can do any modern stories in Captain America 2 and 3 and 4 and 5. There's no rush. Cap in WWII would kick all kind of ass so let him do that for all the time required because we will never have another chance to see that.

    Also him being ressurected in the Avengers would be just like the comics. The hook has been he died a soldier and was ressurected a super-hero. He came back in the Avengers comics for a reason, that's what he became from now on. That was his new home, his new day job. That is why he's Mr. Avengers and their leader.
     
  23. Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger

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    it was confirmed long ago first avenger is going to be totally ww2. At most only present day we will get is maybe a post credit scene were steve how ever he gets frozen or what not is discovered by "X" character to lead into avengers.
     
  24. Turtles Registered

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    I would like the Captain America movie to be set entirely during WWII, because this is a Captain America movie, not an Avengers movie. I don't want half and half. I would like it if they showed Cap getting pulled out of the ice at the end of the movie, or in an after-credits scene, but there are two reasons this might not happen:

    1. The title of the movie. The title is The First Avenger: Captain America, and with a title like that you'd assume he'd become an actual Avenger by the end of the movie, he wouldn't just be found by them. Personally, I think they should just drop the First Avenger from the title, because it's not like Cap was the first Avenger.
    2. People can be dumb. Some people won't stay and watch an after credits scene, and others won't see the Captain America movie before seeing the Avengers movie. All those people will then be like WTF?! when Cap appears in the Avengers movie and they start talking about how he was frozen in the ice and such.

    With that being said, I think it's best to show that he's frozen at the end of the Captain America movie, and then, after the credits, they can show a scene with Namor. Namor can get angry, and be seen throwing a frozen Cap into the ocean. This gives us our juicy after the credits scenes, but nobody who misses the scene will be left scratching their head in the Avengers movie.

    In the Avengers movie, frozen Cap will float on the current until he passes the Triskelion, the new Shield base being built near Manhattan, where he'll be unexpectedly found by the team. In my opinion that mixes his 616 and Ultimates origins nicely, and we can totally get that great scene where he wakes up, and just goes ballistic, bashing his way out of the hospital room. That would be an impressive way to introduce Cap to the Avenger's audience, they'll be like "wow, he just woke up and he's already kicking ass!".

    If you handle things like they did in the Ultimates, then Cap being found and unfrozen in the middle of the movie won't take too much attention away from the other characters in the Avengers movie.
     
  25. Timstuff Registered

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    Personally, I hope that they show Cap being frozen by means of an early form of cryonics, and then gets revived with 21st century technology. I just don't see movie audiences buying the idea that he could go into suspended animation under natural circumstances. If he was frozen in a laboratory setting it would give it an air of plausibility that he could go into suspended animation, and the reasons for him not being revived until the 21st centure would be because the technology didn't exist until then (with Stark Industries likely having a hand in it).
     

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