The Dark Knight Will TDK Show Off Batman's Detective Skills?

[JStorm]

Good point! I think initially Batman will have to do some investigating and detective work while the Joker is still making a name for himself--but when it all escalates, BAM! Gotham is going to hell in a hand basket! The only detective work Batman will be doing then may focus on helping Dent bring some of the other gangsta baddies to justice.

Also a good point.

The Joker never really needs detective work done in his "cases."

I can think of one arc, in the past year, where Batman was foiled by the Joker, and shamed himself for not seeing the "tell-tell" signs.

Other than that, Batman easily picks up on the Jokers trail, if not immediately, not to mention the Joker never hides it. I mean, he kills people on the six o'clock news and then challenges Batman via live feed.

I agree, JW; the Mob will probably get most of the detective work, in TDK.

 

[Taiwarriorz21]

and that's how the cookie crumbles!

 

[The Guard]

Bale may be listed at 6'1. That doesn't mean he actually is. It's show biz.

I didn't mind the intelligence or the investigative aspects in BATMAN BEGINS. I would just like to see the intensity factor of his investigations ratcheted up a notch in THE DARK KNIGHT. Maybe something more along the lines of a forensic/deductive process.

 

[sasquatchs]

I remember a news item saying Gordon allows Batman to enter the bank crime scene at night, has me hopeful

 

[Nightwing1977]

It great to hear Nolan mention that we will see Batman do plenty of detective works in TDK. I'm looking forward to that.

 

[TNC9852002]

Dude, he is short. Look at how he looked compared to Neeson (by your statement Neeson would be 2.5 metres) and i believe that dent and Fox are taller than him. Look at the scene where he walks in the party where Dent and Rachel are sitting. If he was as tall as you say, the table wouldnt have been at his waist.

Uh, Neeson is like 6'4" and Morgan Freeman is pushing 6'3". Christian is 6'-6'1". He's only short by comparison, but as a man, he still makes the lower range in what's classified as above average height.

Now, Keaton...That's definitely pushing the lower range of average height.

-TNC

 

[The Guard]

Uh, Neeson is like 6'4" and Morgan Freeman is pushing 6'3"

That's what they're LISTED at.

Again. Showbiz.

 

[Hole Shot]

That's what they're LISTED at.

Again. Showbiz.

So then if Bale is really 5'10", then Neeson is really 6'1" therefore making it all relative and doesn't matter. Same as if Bale was 6'6" and Neeson was 6'10", Bale would still look shorter.

 

[Figs]

I remember a news item saying Gordon allows Batman to enter the bank crime scene at night, has me hopeful

I hope to hell that's true! I would love to see a scene or two with Gordon letting Batman look around the scene of a crime.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

This argument is brought up again and again and again, by people who seemingly slept through all five Batman movies.

These films are never going to make it a central focus; summer blockbuster = action film, not detective story. Despite that, Nolan, Burton and even Schumacher have included enough aspects, I think.

You always want more, as a fan, but there's only so much that can be included in a two hour movie. Fans want each movie to be a detailed explication of 70 years of Batman history when the best you can reasonably expect is a crash course in the essentials.

Whiners see, and miss, what they want to. I suppose they all had a collective coughing fit during the "This Bat character gave us everything" scene, missing it all. The fact that he brought Falcone to justice almost singlehandedly through detective work is not something to be ignored, even if you think the film should've dwelled on it longer.

 

[Figs]

This argument is brought up again and again and again, by people who seemingly slept through all five Batman movies.

These films are never going to make it a central focus; summer blockbuster = action film, not detective story. Despite that, Nolan, Burton and even Schumacher have included enough aspects, I think.

You always want more, as a fan, but there's only so much that can be included in a two hour movie. Fans want each movie to be a detailed explication of 70 years of Batman history when the best you can reasonably expect is a crash course in the essentials.

Whiners see, and miss, what they want to. I suppose they all had a collective coughing fit during the "This Bat character gave us everything" scene, missing it all. The fact that he brought Falcone to justice almost singlehandedly through detective work is not something to be ignored, even if you think the film should've dwelled on it longer.

Dude, I never said the previous Batman films didn't have any detective work. I'm actually one of the ones that would be in agreement with you. They all did have detective work, especially BB. I just think that since Nolan said he wanted to show more of that angle in TDK, since he didn't have enough time to show more of it in BB, that a scene with Batman and Gordon at a crime scene would be cool.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Dude, I never said the previous Batman films didn't have any detective work. I'm actually one of the ones that would be in agreement with you. They all did have detective work, especially BB. I just think that since Nolan said he wanted to show more of that angle in TDK, since he didn't have enough time to show more of it in BB, that a scene with Batman and Gordon at a crime scene would be cool.

I wasn't referring to you. I was speaking of the people that do go on and on about how there's no detective work in the films, when there clearly is.

 

[GregComicFan]

I think what the Batman films are missing is the AHA! moment. For example, we don't need to see Batman doing detective work... I agree... that calls for a slow-moving scene and it's relatively boring. But what all the Batman movies are missing is the "AHA! I FIGURED IT OUT!" moment where Batman has a lightbulb go off in his head and all of a sudden he's figured out the entire mystery. The animated show, the comics... they do this all the time. That's why Batman has become Batgod. He figures out every villain's plot... he makes Superman look stupid. He's always a step ahead of everyone else. That's the Batman moment we are missing...

for example... in Batman Forever, Bruce actually needed the puzzles to figure out Edward Nygma was the Riddler???? what????? the news had the Riddler on camera... but Bruce didn't recognize him as Nygma???

movie Batman just doesn't come off as the genius the animated show and comics have made him out to be for years and years and years.

But I do think Batman Begins did a better job...

-we saw Batman running surveillance.
-we saw Batman sneak into Crane's apartment to snoop around
-Batman pretty much figured out Scarecrow was poisoning the water system in order to expose all of Gotham to the fear toxin
-Batman interrogated people, using fear

-the only time in Batman Begins that Bruce looked less than bright was when Lucius had to explain to him the chemistry behind the toxin...

... but maybe Bruce was just playing dumb. And also, the Batman in the comics would have made an antidote himself in the Batcave.... but then you have to remember Lucius (and Morgan Freeman for that matter) would of then had a lesser part and less of an impact if Bruce understood already how to make an antidote on his own...

So Nolan's Batman is a detective... he's just not a chemist. haha.

The Dark Knight could still deploy an "AHA!" moment though to give us the Batgod were all so used to.

maybe it will

Greg

 

[The Guard]

I think what the Batman films are missing is the AHA! moment. For example, we don't need to see Batman doing detective work... I agree... that calls for a slow-moving scene and it's relatively boring. But what all the Batman movies are missing is the "AHA! I FIGURED IT OUT!" moment where Batman has a lightbulb go off in his head and all of a sudden he's figured out the entire mystery.

BATMAN FOREVER had this. Pretty clearly. There was an entire scene devoted to it.

 

[peteagassi]

does anyone have the prologue saved? Because they took it off youtube. I need to see it. Thanks, anybody!

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

BATMAN FOREVER had this. Pretty clearly. There was an entire scene devoted to it.

He really is quite bright despite what people say.

 

[GregComicFan]

Yes, Batman Forever had an "AHA!" moment, where Bruce/Alfred put together the Riddler's puzzles, found what they had in common, and discovered...

the Riddler was Edward Nygma!

WOW!

Totally Anti-Climatic!!!! First, this is information the audience already knew!!

Second, the Riddler's outfit barely disguised him. How could Bruce NOT already know the Riddler was Edward Nygma???????

and that's why the "AHA!" moment in Batman Forever sucks.

Greg

 

[The Guard]

Yes, Batman Forever had an "AHA!" moment, where Bruce/Alfred put together the Riddler's puzzles, found what they had in common, and discovered...

the Riddler was Edward Nygma!

WOW!

I never said it was brilliant. I said it was an "Aha" moment.

Totally Anti-Climatic!!!! First, this is information the audience already knew!

And...

Second, the Riddler's outfit barely disguised him. How could Bruce NOT already know the Riddler was Edward Nygma???????

and that's why the "AHA!" moment in Batman Forever sucks.

It's a movie. Bruce knowing Nygma is The Riddler throughout kind of defeats the purpose of figuring out who The Riddler is. The actual mechanics of the "riddle" invovled was at least as clever as the thrown-together "Ra's Al Ghul must be working with The Scarecrow with my stolen microwave emitter device" nonsense.

 

[thegameq]

These films are never going to make it a central focus; summer blockbuster = action film, not detective story.

That pretty much sums it up. Would be nice to see such a film though.

 

[Stotch]

That pretty much sums it up. Would be nice to see such a film though.

robin: Mmmmmmh, batman i'm getting a RAGING clue right now...

batman: Really? So do I!... Mine's pointing that way!

robin: Let's go follow it, then!

 

[wootbaby]

But I do think Batman Begins did a better job...

-we saw Batman running surveillance.
-we saw Batman sneak into Crane's apartment to snoop around
-Batman pretty much figured out Scarecrow was poisoning the water system in order to expose all of Gotham to the fear toxin
-Batman interrogated people, using fear

BB did a better job than any other batman movie or TV series showing Batman's detective work. In addition to direct references to early undercover work in Batman: Year One (Matches Malone etc) it showed him building a model of the crime network in gotham, using advanced technology for surveillance, and piecing together the root of the toxin. the movie spent TWENTY MINUTES showing batman as a methodical, logical and suspicious detective who wouldn't even TALK to Gordon until he had stalked him and investigated him 100%. and people dont get it?

what you have to realize is that moviegoers are stupid. Stupid as hell. They dont care about subtle and thematic portrayals. You can show batman doing all the detective work in the world but in the end all they know are 2 things: 1) the BATCOMPUTER 2) an AH HA moment.

basically all these criticisms boil down to the fact that noobs expect a scene where batman feeds random crap into the batcomputer and it spits out the solution (SEE??? batman is SMART! he uses a computer. batman is a SCIENTIST).

second they want a big AH HA moment where the camera is all dramatic and batman sits there brooding then... TA DA THIS GUY IS THE BADGUY and he calls Gordon and everyone is like wow batman is the man!

it's something that CSI hasn't helped... people have no idea how science actually works and they think it's about spewing technobabble all day then AH HA SOLUTION. Take it from a guy who's working on a masters in biochem and has spent more hours than I care to remember working as a slave in a lab doing tritrations and ****. Science is about grunt work... it's sitting in a lab dropping little drops of A into B and looking at a spreadsheet months after the fact to see what % C moved. it's far from sexy.

and REAL DETECTIVE WORK, even in 2007 is primarily interviewing dudes, tailing dudes, and things like getting people's phone records and credit card bills.

BUT MAYBE IN THE DARK KNIGHT WE'LL SEE A BATCOMPUTER AKA REAL DETECTIVE WORK

 

[The Guard]

Agreed. I think most people just want to see him at a murder scene.

 

[Hole Shot]

Suprised the SHH set report didn't wake this thread up. I know the article is being talked about in another thread, but I think it makes this discussion interesting again.


http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=7347

Batman walks into the vault. Detective Ramirez turns around, surprised. She looks at Gordon then says to the other cops, "Can we get a minute people, please?" She then leaves along with the other cops. Gordon says something and Batman replies, "Him again? Where are the others?"

Gordon: "Just another bunch of small timers."

Batman walks up to a cart with some cash on it. He pulls a small device from his belt and it pops open. It has a blue light and a radiation symbol. Batman waves it over the cash, "Some of the marked bills I gave you." Batman takes the cash bundle and throws it to Gordon who catches it. Gordon replies, "We found the bulk of the dirty cash. My detectives have been making drug buys with it for weeks. This bank was another drop for the mob. This makes five."

Batman: "Time to move in."
Gordon: "We would have to hit all banks simultaneously. SWAT teams, backup…"
Batman says something, and Gordon asks, "What about this Joker guy?"
Batman: "One man or the entire mob? He can wait."
Gordon: "When the new DA gets wind of this, he'll want in."
Batman: "Do you trust him?"
Gordon: "It will be hard to keep him out. He's as stubborn as you."

Gordon looks up from putting evidence in an envelope and sees Batman has disappeared again. He shakes his head and the scene ends.

 

[TNC9852002]

I like how Nolan addresses Batman's pushed back detective skills in Begins and also made it clear that it's focused on a lot more in TDK.

-TNC

 

[The Guard]

We'll see.