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Discussion in 'Captain America: The First Avenger' started by AnorexicBatman, Dec 6, 2008.
nobody's of "pure moral fiber"
There is One . . .
That is what is supposed to make him such a hero (not massive powers or high-technology... but awe-inspiring character beyond the human norm). Though I would like to seem him struggle with personal conflicts and realizations as the character developments.
bottom line characters of "pure moral fiber" are pretty boring.
Well first of all, whose morals are we talking about??? If Cap was opposed to gay marriage, because that is the "morals" of right-wing pentacostal types (if I have offended any pentacostals or right-wingers... good)... or are his morals based on the ideals of liberty and justice, as conceived by the founders based on Enlightenned thinking. That kind of moral basis can be very interesting subject matter... creating conflict, challenging personal convictions, and being inspirational... It is about writing a good story, and the character is just a vehicle.
I'd prefer something along the lines of Casey Affleck's character in Gone Baby Gone.
comes from a rough background, not always "in the right" but when he makes up his mind something is the right thing to do...nobody's stopping him from doing it.
^ that's good... So Cap's persona and story arc should probably not be about moral purity, but more about the discovery of the "right" thing... and a diehard dedication to seeing it done.
yes. keyword discovery.
you don't volunteer for a experimental genetic steroid if you're already sure of all the rights and wrongs
I would like to see them borrow a little bit from the new Bucky Captain America in the comics right now. I would like to see Cap dealing with the fact that he has become the symbol of america and be unsure if he can live up to that
If Captain America was here, right now, he'd slap your face... All of you...
...only kidding. That would make him Cap n' Dark Knight or something.
I feel I can trust Marvel... as long as Fox is kept faaaaaaaaar away
I remember writing a fan draft outline in which part of the serum was a mind control formula that made him a super-heroic fighting machine, a live-action propaganda cartoon, transformed from the deathly skinny lost-identity immigrant that is Steve Rogers
And in mid-battle the mind serum wears off, and he and Bucky and a few others get taken to a concentration camp. Bucky is killed in front of Cap, and after escaping with teh help of some American soldiers, Rogers returns to America, estranged, just as lost as he was before. But on the news he hears a story about himself, described as a lost immigrant who came to America, became a hero, killed a lot of Nazis and saved a lot of people. It's then that he sees in himself a regular guy who came to a country in the arms of his family, looking for oppurtunity, and became a powerful, heroic force that gave hope and fought Nazis
The Red Skull was a lot more involved, too.
As long as the movie has something to say that brings optimism to the idea of the American dream without being propaganda, I could see this movie being really really good. If Johnston is handed a fantastic script and casts it and films it well, this could be even better than Iron Man.
The movie is a Captain America movie, not Stop Loss 2.
I really like that bit about the brainwashing.
really a lot.
Part of Cap's appeal is the fact that he was a skinny kid that came out of the Bronx with no money and no real future.He was one of "us" and that's the way it should be.
You're really cyncial and bitter aren't you?
Honestly, while America has its dark history, the ideals that were instilled at its birth "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are admirable. What the Captain America movie should do is not critique what is wrong with the American country but reenforce optimisim of what it is capable of being. Captain America should be that symbol of freedom and purity that other countries, not just America, want to emulate. Otherwise, you can't expect this film to do very well overseas. This movie needs to speak to all audiences on a optimistic level while still remaining provocative.
Cap is a true leader and hero, as soon as you put a spin on that, you have a character that is not really Captain America. That was one thing with the 90's Cap film, I felt that guy was too selfish and was just trying to hook up with his girlfriend.
Well the idea of the-washing idea was that it estranged him from the ideals and gung-ho feeligns towards america so that he could come back to them on his own.
I like the theme of Ultimate Cap where he is still a gung ho patriot, but society has changed and he has a hard time adapting. If they can borrow from that, but keep the essence of 616 Cap, I think it will make for a better story for the mainstream audience to relate to.
From what I have heard, the film will be more of a WW2 picture with an ending that sets up "The Avengers". I guess that allows for a longer origin and better use of the Red Skull, plus allow for the Avengers to find frozen Cap. But I think you need to focus on a WW2 patriotic mindset in modern times.
Imagine starting with the discovery of Cap frozen in ice by research scientists, the military, whatever. The credits are then done like Watchmen where newspaper headlines and newsreel footage show America and Germany trying to build "super soldiers". Then cut to frail Steve Rogers getting turned down for the army and volunteering for the super soldier program.
Now cut to an airplane with soliders about to drop into combat, talking about "him" in the back. Show Steve in an Ultimates-style military Cap uniform (basically, fatigues with the logo on the chest and a red white and blue helmet). Show his effect on morale and how he changes battle. My preference is that he doesn't use a gun, but it's not that important. You also need to show the general public rallying around the figure. From there he can move to the tranditional uniform.
At this point, you can either transition back to the future and use a flashback to show how he was frozen or move on to that directly. I guess the Red Skull needs to be introduced as well.
In the present, you can have the Red Skull as some sort of terrorist for hire. Or drop him and have a battle with the government over the rights to the Cap name/costume/rights etc. The film will probably have to end with Nick Fury and the Avengers (unless you have them find him in the first place).
But the theme that the audience will relate with is thei hardcore patriot coming back to a society that doesn't appreciate him, the military or even their own flag. What humanizes Cap is his struggle accepting this and trying to stay above all of the crap and be a hero and a symbol.
True... so if a fictitious character is of pure moral fiber it would likely make him a unique character, something every similar to Superman.
I hear that a lot and I don't get it. Everybody in this world compromises morally at some point (heck.. many people compromise morally everyday). So how can the person with such strong moral values and convictions not be appealing? It's something most will never achieve in their lifetimes.
Dark, broken, conflicted is all the rage these days. Something bright, hopeful, inspiring is what I want to see, but it just seems to be very unreal for many.
All great points. This is going to be one of the most challenging movie for Marvel to pull off and I hope they do a good job.