World X-Men and Homosexuality: The Connection

[GreatWhiteWhale]

I think the tepid exploration of Homosexuality in comics is usually chalked up to the prescribed 8-14 'audience' of comics, because of the immaturity of this audience, it is easy for publishers to say that heterosexual relationships are more easily grasped in comics than same sex ones.

Personally I think if there are regular scenes in X-Men involving violence, wolverine cutting people to pieces, emma, rogue and psylocke running around in bras and g-strings, medical operations, violence against cultural minorities, occasional drug use and the revelation that Nightcrawler has two *****. Then there may as well be more Gay characters than just Northstar (whos dead) and Karma (those are the two off the top of my head, Im sure there is more), and while on occasion there sexuality is explored, they never seem to have an ongoing homosexual relationship.

Admittedly it has never really concerned me until I read this thread and started thinking about it, I think the statistics for homosexuality is something like 1 in 10 (Anyone got the facts?) and Marvel has certainly taken a more equitable approach in Ultimate X-Men, where two of the characters there are gay, Northstar and Collosus, (and wasn't it hinted that Deathstrike was a Lesbian?) out of a total pool of about thirty or forty mutant characters. So 5% isn't that bad.

 

[Holy spirit]

They glorify people who want to destroy the world in comics. I do not see why characters should not be diverse by nature either. Professor X is in a wheel chair a man of disability that is also a step out of the silverage of comic heros too. But because of society I do not think a gay Superman type although superman as such is kinda camp if you think about it would actually take off and sell in comparison. Its a shame its like having a gay president, but one would be selected out before they can reach a feat like that.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

... Edit
Personally I think if there are regular scenes in X-Men involving violence, wolverine cutting people to pieces, emma, rogue and psylocke running around in bras and g-strings, medical operations, violence against cultural minorities, occasional drug use and the revelation that Nightcrawler has two *****. Then there may as well be more Gay characters than just Northstar (whos dead) and Karma

And they say comics are for kids... G-30/ PG-21

 

[littyx]

I think the statistics for homosexuality is something like 1 in 10 (Anyone got the facts?)

Yes the Kinsey study which was done in the 70's I believe, calculated that 10% of the population were homosexual. However, I find that very hard to believe since I think most people would not admit to being gay esp. back in the 70's.

 

[Kritish]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?

 

[X-Maniac]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?

But we are allowed to have violence including Wolverine slicing people to pieces, and to have heterosexual love scenes depicted then? Because that's what you get in X-Men as it is.

Your sort of bad attitude is precisely what we need to counter and educate.

 

[littyx]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?

If you would have read the intro to this thread it said:

If you have a problem with this topic, or want to use this thread as a place to emit negative opinions on how X-Men and gays dont correlate, please dont. Do it on your own time somewhere else. This is a simple question for a term paper.

See, these are the kind of people that I have to deal with.

 

[Kritish]

But we are allowed to have violence including Wolverine slicing people to pieces, and to have heterosexual love scenes depicted then? Because that's what you get in X-Men as it is.

Your sort of bad attitude is precisely what we need to counter and educate.

Whatever happend to the good ol days when x-men was just about entertainment ?

I don't want to have a comic book preach to me.

*Goes back to Batman and Punisher forums*

 

[Elijya]

not reading this crazy ass long thread, but....

The X-Men are representative of ALL minorities, with specific comparisons to different ones at many different points in their history

 

[littyx]

When did this thread become a "Keep the X-Men comic as entertainment only" thread?! Who the hell is saying to turn the comic into a lesson book? We are SIMPLY analyzing the comic and interpreting it in the way we see it.

And its sad that you people are saying X-Men is just "fun", nothing more. Does that mean you merely look at the pictures and colors and smile? No, you read it and analyze it. If X-Men is just a book full of senseless fun thats means nothing more to you, then why are you here? It must mean something more if you came on a message board to discuss it. If everything was merely fun and nothing deeper then that, then thats some shallow crap.

 

[Kritish]

And its sad that you people are saying X-Men is just "fun", nothing more. Does that mean you merely look at the pictures and colors and smile? No, you read it and analyze it. If X-Men is just a book full of senseless fun thats means nothing more to you, then why are you here? It must mean something more if you came on a message board to discuss it. If everything was merely fun and nothing deeper then that, then thats some shallow crap.

Does that mean you merely look at the pictures and colors and smile?

Almost, I'm not looking for it redeeming values.

Whatever happend to the good ol days when X-Nerds made assinie threads on how Wolverine could kill god ?

 

[Elijya]

whatever happened to the days where you vandalized people who're different from you?

oh yeah, that was last week

 

[Darthkush]

X-men is a comic for god's sake not a gay pride propaganda tool.

Whatever happend to just having fun reading a comic ?

^ EXACTLY what I was talking about in my last post. I...just don't get that at all. I really don't.

Was X-men ever just about "wolverine slicing things, Magneto vs. Xavier, etc.?" for me? Yes, when I was like 9. Although I still enjoy those aspects(we all do. Let's face it, these things would not have endured for so many decades without those), X-men, for me anyway, is more about a combination of the different metaphorical themes that the book represents combined with the interpersonal relationships between the various characters. As we grow up, so must our versions of our favorite heroes, otherwise it's just juvenile, nostalgic fun. There's nothing wrong with that on occasion(see my avatar for obvious proof lol) but I believe X-men is on a much higher sophistication level.

 

[X-Maniac]

No one wants comics to be a 'gay pride propaganda tool'. Who said so? But nothing wrong in them representing a wide range of real life.

The days of total escapism are now long gone, I'm afraid. We are in an era where people expect some gritty, grounded realism and real-world values. Shows like X-Files, Millennium, Smallville, and movies like X-Men and Batman Begins, succeed because they surround the impossible and unbelievable with the possible and believable. Fantastical characters are placed in a realistic setting. This is in the hope that you, the reader or viewer, can 'suspend disbelief' and buy into the ideas without dismissing them as hokum and giggle your way through your popcorn.

X-Men has always had a socio-political theme. It doesn't have to ram it down our throats, or have heavy adult content or focus graphically on sex or violence. But it can include some of the 'wider picture' that is going on in the world. The depiction of minorities has always been rather murky in the comics (blacks, gays etc). No one wants the comics to get all heavy on us, but the inclusion of some real-world themes can only enhance the setting. I don't want to see 'gay pride propaganda' any more than i want to see any other minority or majority propaganda. But we want characters everyone can relate to, and that includes people of all kinds. The readers are not all white Christian middle-class heterosexuals. My 14-year-old niece is well aware of gay people, and even has a friend who may be gay, so I see no harm in including characters who reflect the real world out here. It doesn't have to be graphic or over-the-top, it just needs to be realistic.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

^ very well said, and great topic control. No-one was calling for the Xmen to go "gay". But we are applauding their use of a broad spectrum of topics and therefore widening their appeal to an even broader audience. Since this inclusion makes for so many different types of readers/viewers, it will be necessary to continue to grow with their audience, to maintain this status. And as X-maniac stated the "realism" factor is underlined and magnified by this as well (since their reality is as socially diverse as ours, it just continues to draw us in).

Almost, I'm not looking for it redeeming values.

Whatever happend to the good ol days when X-Nerds made assinie threads on how Wolverine could kill god ?

GOOD FOR YOU, and that's exactly what we're discussing here, how a normal 10 year old like yourself can relate to the good ole fun days with assinine X-nerds or how an eastern asian person, or an african person, or a CANADIAN (lol) could relate. There's something for everyone in the Xmen. Now please allow us to discuss how it relates to the gay community and we will most certainly get around to your Wolverine killing thing with all the other 10 year olds...

Just not right now

 

[Elijya]

ok, this reminds me of something that happened this past year

as some of you in the comcis reading world may know, Young Avengers is a new superhero series from Marvel about teenage counter-parts to the Avengers. Except, much controversy was stirred because two of the characters are gay. Before this was even confirmed and their were only rumors, the letters page of the comic began a discussion. Some people were opposed to it, and said they'd drop the book (a very few) and most people applauded it.

The guy who started the conversation, however, wasn't merely upset that there were Gay characters in a comic, his point was that comics can't address serious social issues

To which, I say: **** you. Comics have ALWAYS addressed series social issues. The first cartoons were political cartoons. The first superman comics had Superman rescuing good, decent people from corrupt bankers and politicians - very topical in the days of the Depression! after that, Captain America and other heroes began fighting the nazi's - before the US even joined in the war! Romanca comics began experimenting with interracial dating

in the 60's, almost every character dealt with social issues, the kinds of things kids deal with in every day life. Spider-Man blames hyimself for his uncle's death, and has to juggle school, girls, work, his sick aunt, and having a superhero career the whole time. Hulk was all about anger and abandonment issues. The Silver Surfer proselytize about his alien views on humanity. And yeah, the X-Men were a metaphor for every oppressed minority.

in the seventies, Green Lantern/Green Arrow dealt with pollution, native american rights, racism, and drug use. Spider-Man also did anti-drug stories. Moving into the 80's, gun-control, sexual harrasment, and child abuse were all dealt with in various comics. Hell, there was even a Batman special dealing with landmines!

Then you go undergorund: MAUS was a holocaust survivors story, Cerebus dealt with Dave Sim's views on religion and women. Vertigo pops up and deals with every "social issue" under the son. And yeah, gay characters! dozens of them! all over the place!

issues after issue has been dealt with in comics, and not just avante garde ones, but mainstream ones, too. So if you say comics can't, never have, or shouldn't address social issues, you are a god damn moron. Go entertain yourself by hitting your own head with a hammer until you see the white light.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

Edit... Go entertain yourself by hitting your own head with a hammer until you see the white light.

Sorry, as good as the whole post was, I just needed to let you know I was going to be using this last line!

 

[Sauron]

there's no connection, just 'cause you want it to it is not going to happen, there is none and that's it, nuff said.

 

[Elijya]

there's no connection, just 'cause you want it to it is not going to happen, there is none and that's it, nuff said.

dillussional much?

 

[littyx]

there's no connection, just 'cause you want it to it is not going to happen, there is none and that's it, nuff said.

I hate when 12 yrs take over their daddies account.

And if their is no connection, like you so eargerly declare. Then the fact that Bryan Singer and Ian McKellan wanted to be a part of the X-Men films would have probably not happned. They were partly, if not mainly, attracted to the films becasue of the correlations between X-Men and homosexuals.

 

[Elijya]

Uncanny x-Men #292 (and I'm paraphrasing): (xavier speaking to a large crowd) "Together, we can fight for a world where no one is persecuted for their race, religion, species, or sexual orientation."

right out of the Prof's mouth. So go eat it, bigots.

 

[Lazmarquez]

Uncanny x-Men #292 (and I'm paraphrasing): (xavier speaking to a large crowd) "Together, we can fight for a world where no one is persecuted for their race, religion, species, or sexual orientation."

right out of the Prof's mouth. So go eat it, bigots.

Quotes are a very good thing.. Thank you!
But just to jump in, I feel as though anyone who would dare call themselves a real X-Men fan (Movie or Comics), could not have the audacity to come into this thread and preach their opposition to the ideas being stated. No one is saying that The X-Men are a complete representation of Gay Pride or have no other facets to them. The X-Men are a metaphorical standpoint for the rights of all minorites. It is people like the few who have decided to display their own level of ignorance on this thread that bring upon the same wrath that the Xmen are sworn to protect the world against. No one ever wants to feel as though they are an outisder in this world, just as the mutants want a sense of belonging in their fictional world. So next time one decides to disrespect the morality and judgments of the people who are here to discuss ,in a civil matter, please see yourself right back out of this thread.

There are enough problems with people feeling terrible about who they are to have others do the same on an X-Men thread.. It surprises me to no end how some people treat on another sometimes on these threads. So please, Pick up an X-Men comic, It may do you some good to respect the material and learn something about humane tolerance.

 

[Kritish]

Sorry, just the thought of Northstar giving Nightcrawler a hummer kind of gives me the creeps.
What's next ? Will Super man be a necrophiliac ?

 

[Lazmarquez]

You need to be taught tolerance and respect. You are doing nothing but marring your own self growth. I will opt after this post, not to reply to your messages for they do not relate nor respect the subject matter at hand. Back to the topic shall we folks?

 

[Kritish]

I have nothing against Homosexuality, I just don't like the thought of a character that I've known for years and practically grew up with changed that much.

It's like changing the story and making wolverine a woman .