World X-Men and Homosexuality: The Connection

[littyx]

Tedw, anything you want to add would be great.

 

[tedw]

I'll try to write something prolific later - I'm at work at the moment (shh, don't tell!).

If your friend (or is it you doing the paper?) wants some references, there's of course the closely-patterned "coming out" scene of X2.

There were storylines in the main X-Men books with Iceman and his father, who was prejudiced both against his son as a mutant, and against Bobby's Asian girlfriend, Opal.

Early on in the comics, Bobby dealt with Cloud, a girl he was romantically interested in who turned out to be a nebulous energy form that flipped back and forth between female and male.

There's the obvious Northstar and his crush on teammate Sasquatch.

There was a good story that might help, because it's not overt (it's not about homosexuality) but deals with prejudice - it was issue #3 or 4 of Generation X, featuring Banshee and the kids trying to find out what was going on with a mutant kid who was holed up in a school with his teacher. The kid was physically deformed because of a birth defect, and people just assumed he was a mutant and hated him regardless. Or as Jubilee said, he had the bum rap of being a mutant but none of the advantages (powers). A good example of a story about bigotry and misunderstanding, imo.

I'll see if I can remember more, if these help at all.

 

[JP]

Just read through this thread. Some very interesting posts from some of you. I doubt there is much I can add, everything has already been said.

As an X-fan, I didn't really realize it before, but I connect a lot with Nightcrawler. Believing in something that is generally against your existence. I, myself, am gay and I also consider myself to be Christian.

It's been difficult for me throughout the years having faith in something that doesn't agree with what I'm doing. Sometimes I feel at ends, because I may agree with something on one side, and on something else with the other. And at the same time, I tend to feel cast out by both groups. I’m not accepted by most Christians because I’m sinning against God. At the same time, I’m not accepted among the gay community because as soon as they hear the word ‘Christian’ they jump to this conclusion that you’re this evil, close minded bigot that hates homos.

So yeah, I’ve had that on my mind for a long time now. It’s nice to get it off my chest.

 

[littyx]

JP. I'm Catholic, went to Catholic school for 10 years. So I, like yourself, struggle with my religion at times as well. But what I did is educated myself. I've read the bible, read reports on them, and came to the conclusion that if anyone read the bible, they would know that if we (homosexuals) are going to hell, then we're all going to hell.

Besides that, I may have a problem with some Christians, but thats not what my faith is about. My faith is between God and myself. No one else. Not the church, not the Pope, not the extremists. No one can dictate my relationship with God. Only I can.

 

[littyx]

Thanks again guys for your comments. My friend is coming over tonigt and he's going to review the posts on here for his essay. We're also suppossed to watch X2 tonight. Thanks again.

 

[JP]

JP. I'm Catholic, went to Catholic school for 10 years. So I, like yourself, struggle with my religion at times as well. But what I did is educated myself. I've read the bible, read reports on them, and came to the conclusion that if anyone read the bible, they would know that if we (homosexuals) are going to hell, then we're all going to hell.

Besides that, I may have a problem with some Christians, but thats not what my faith is about. My faith is between God and myself. No one else. Not the church, not the Pope, not the extremists. No one can dictate my relationship with God. Only I can.

Basically. If I'm going to hell for my sins, then everyone else is too.

 

[squeekness]

A book everyone should read (review taken from my personal Bible study)


Helminiak, Daniel ~ What the Bible Really says about Homosexuality.

(Discussion class) A most excellent look at Scripture and what can go wrong when translating from ancient texts. He says the best way to look at the issue is in context of the times the Scripture was written. What did homosexuality mean to the authors. A close examination of the Greek reveals not a blanket condemnation of homosexual behavior, but of it's abuses (exploitation, pederest behavior, prostitution, rape, ect...). His arguments are supported by the Apologetic Letters of Justin Martyr to the Roman Court. The concerns of Leviticus reveal more of maintaining Jewish identity (vrs. Canaanites), than homosexual acts themselves. Was a good book and really made ya think. ****

Basically, his arguments are that the Bible (and certianly Jesus never said a peep about it) doesn't give an outright condemnation of homosexuality if you look at it carefully. Context is important. Sodom and Gommorrah were punished not for homosexual activity, but because they violated the rules of hospitality. Angels came to visit and were treated rudely. What is condemned is the old practices of exploitation of children --forced castration (I mean how many enuchs actually volunteered for that, jeez!) and the sex trade that created child prostitutes.

We will be judged by what we do, not our sexuality, I say. Did we help the poor or anyone who asked? Did we help and honor the members of our family? Did we always do the best job we could do? Did we do our very best not to hurt anyone? Those are things God will see, I think.

 

[squeekness]

I was at Mass this morning, thinking and praying about all of you and especially my most dearest JP, and was pleased when the Lord offered up this reading for me to pass on to all of you. I put it in the context of a message I wish to say to all of you, something I doubt the anti-bigotry doctrine of Xavier would find incompatable.

On the condemnation of homosexuals by God I (squeekness) have this to offer: fear not His judgement. Legalism (religion by rules) is flawed because it draws us away from that which matters most to God – compassion and mercy. It is the reason Jesus attacked the Paraisees so bitterly. The Gospels are conspicuously silent on the matter of homosexuality, but Jesus was never silent on that which matters most to God.

A reading from the book of Matthew:

Jesus said to his disciples: "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?’ And the King will say to them in reply, ‘Amen I say to you, whatever you did for one of the least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on the left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

You may be homosexuals, but it's your behavior in life that matters most. Jesus also said, "I desire compassion, not a sacrifice." He wants us to be good to one another. "Love your nieghbor as you love yourself." Do this and everything else will fall into place. You will not be condemned for your sexuality, only for a lack of compassion. God is not rejecting you, please do not reject Him because society (which is wrong about a great many things) condemns you. You can be certain He will condemn any self righteous Christian who degrades or humliates any gay person because that Christian has shown no compassion. YOU are the least of His and important and loved by God, never forget that.

 

[JP]

Wow, Squeek. Thanks for that.

 

[squeekness]

Wow, Squeek. Thanks for that.

Any time, pop tart.

 

[newwaveboy87]

that definitely deserves a big thank you.
group hug anyone?

 

[OutcryX]

Amen.

 

[squeekness]

*squeekness approves of group hugs and gives one out to everybody*

 

[newwaveboy87]

hooray!!

 

[Valechan]

I sign in for the group hug.

What truly astounds me, even to this day, is how much people post just to bother, especially on threads as sensitive as this. Everytime there is a gay related topic, there is always one saying bad things about us. It gets truly annoying.

On the subject of changing a character's sexuality. Well if not done correctly it can be a tremendous stupid move. These things have to happen naturally, no one wakes up and says "Hey, I think I might be gay!" just out of the blue. A character like, for example, Cyclops, could not do it. However a character like Storm might easily be "turned" into a lesbian, there is back history to support that (her strong relationship with Yukio and her love/hate with Callisto for example). Overall I advise greatly against changing a character's sexuality if it has not been implied previously. Another example, I've always thought of Remy and Logan as bisexuals, so it wouldn't be too weird to see them "doing" it or hinting at it, but it would be with someone like say Bishop.

Elija, I was a very big fan of CAptain Marvel, but due to big problems in 2002 I had to give up. Since then I did find out about Heather's sexuality (in a handbook of all places), could you tell me the issues where it was covered? My last Cap Marvel was issue 29, one issue away from a saga in the 2099 timeline which name I cannot recall.

 

[squeekness]

On the subject of changing a character's sexuality. Well if not done correctly it can be a tremendous stupid move. These things have to happen naturally, no one wakes up and says "Hey, I think I might be gay!" just out of the blue. A character like, for example, Cyclops, could not do it. However a character like Storm might easily be "turned" into a lesbian, there is back history to support that (her strong relationship with Yukio and her love/hate with Callisto for example). Overall I advise greatly against changing a character's sexuality if it has not been implied previously. Another example, I've always thought of Remy and Logan as bisexuals, so it wouldn't be too weird to see them "doing" it or hinting at it, but it would be with someone like say Bishop.

It's interesting that you say you see both Logan and Remy as bi-sexual. I see Gambit this way, but I never have with Logan, not in the comics. I have read some awesome fanfiction though, that paints Logan this way, and in the vast majority of the cases, it's Remy he's paired with, never Bishop. You wouldn't see Logan with anyone as serious as Bishop (I think anyway). He would need someone more like our playful little thief to lighten him up and make him laugh. Logan has always been drawn to those who live life to the fullest and Remy certainly qualifies.

 

[MilkmanDan]

It's interesting that you say you see both Logan and Remy as bi-sexual. I see Gambit this way, but I never have with Logan, not in the comics. I have read some awesome fanfiction though, that paints Logan this way, and in the vast majority of the cases, it's Remy he's paired with, never Bishop. You wouldn't see Logan with anyone as serious as Bishop (I think anyway). He would need someone more like our playful little thief to lighten him up and make him laugh. Logan has always been drawn to those who live life to the fullest and Remy certainly qualifies.

What, no mention of Logan/Scott pairing? Those two have more chemistry than most of the actual X-couples.

Oh, and Logan has had affairs with those who live life to the fullest, but his true loves have always been the less exciting women, like Rose, Jean and Mariko.

 

[squeekness]

What, no mention of Logan/Scott pairing? Those two have more chemistry than most of the actual X-couples.

Oh, and Logan has had affairs with those who live life to the fullest, but his true loves have always been the less exciting women, like Rose, Jean and Mariko.

Actually I have read a couple with the Logan/Scott that were well done, but not as a permanent love interest. Just kind of a slam bam, thank ya whatever. And you are right about Logan's love affairs, I think that only adds to my theory that a Logan /Bishop pairing wouldn't work, Bishop isn't like any of those girls either.

 

[Valechan]

When I picture Logan having sex with a guy, it's always a very young, very demure queer guy, sort of like Cypher, you know, kinda girlish...

 

[squeekness]

When I picture Logan having sex with a guy, it's always a very young, very demure queer guy, sort of like Cypher, you know, kinda girlish...

LOL. I have no memory of Cyber being so girlish or demure. Perhaps it's time to drag out the back issues....

 

[pyromaniac]

Just had to do this.

Great posts, everyone. And I mean everyone. Well, those who know the thick and thin of this very demarcated issue at hand.



I don't think I have the time to pour out my entire life story on here, but generally speaking, I'd like to add that confrontations of homosexuality aren't necessarily always bad.

I had a great upbringing. I knew from almost I was born that I was gay, and it felt natural, and the desires and thoughts were just as much a part of me as breathing, living was.

My family, friends, even at school, knew, and I came out to both Catholic schools, the second high school with which I had better consequences.

The first - I was still a little young and learning how to navigate my way into this world, so in a way, I brought it on myself... But I knew generally, I'd never cop such flak the way you guys have been talking about.

It's Australia. It's a society of people where they won't judge, persecute or string you up with ropes.

But that's me. I had good vibes about people, and knew that when, how and why I came out, they'd have to deal in different ways, but pretty much with indifference.

The only 'struggle' if any that was directly linked to sexuality, was that it does NOT make for a good coffee table conversation - ie the straights versus one gay, if you get my drift...

But in times of one-on-one, the most loyal will ask you what it's like to be gay, even going so far to coaxing me to tell them about the finer details of.. sex. And this guy had a girlfriend; and he's straight, don't worry.

Look, bosef wrote a brilliant message: succinct, hard hitting, and blows the lids of all cylinders, because that's what the people of ignorance, hypocrisy and subliminal judgement need. I mean, anything we write, we set the record straight.

There's a link that, while long, makes you think on the other side of heterosexuality: why is this not a choice? Who decides we wake up one day and decide we're heterosexual....? Are we persecuted for this, when we go to a school full of gay students...?

muggle.net

 

[newwaveboy87]

pyro you help to prove my theory that every other guy in Australia is gay...woot. i wanna go there so badly...

 

[littyx]

Seriously newwave, that Australian accent is..........hot!

 

[Valechan]

Let's all go to Australia then!!

 

[Spiff]

But Littyx isn't everything in australia hot!?!