Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark PhoeniX Rate and Review Thread (spoilers in spoiler tags)

[The Original Bamfer]

5.5/10. Full review later.

 

[Sage2016]

Gave it a 3. Wasn't the worst thing I ever watched to give it a 1, but it wasn't good either.

 

[By your Command]

"F*** you Simon Kinberg" came out of my mouth when the movie ended and I saw his credit. This is without a doubt the worst X-Men movie, yes it's even worse than Origins.

None of the characters had an arc whatsoever, if anything the best character of the movie was Jessica Chastain, just cause it doesn't matter who anyone plays here. The acting is good, but there is nothing to act, the script is terrible from start to finish.

Spoiler

Just Kinberg trying to put what he liked about X2 is insulting: Jean providing the voiceover for the bookends, Someone making ice and that someone being Storm, the Phoenix Raptor at the end of the movie to give us hope...that Simon Kinberg is going to hell

Actually the movie is good for about 12 seconds of an action sequence in New York, where Cyclops got to do something cool once, then the rest of the sequence got really bad, and then it ended and continued with those other terrible sequences.

God bless Hans Zimmer, he's amazing, but I would've loved to hear an alternate score for this movie made by John Ottman, that would've been nice and a fitting end to the franchise music rather than the somewhat predictable Zimmer score we got.

Simon Kinberg this movie was worse than The Last Stand, what's the excuse now? Kevin Feige please salvage this, you've done it with Hulk and Spidey, please save my Merry Mutants.

X-Men movies: they were the key to starting the comic book movie era, a process that was slow and normally took 2 or 3 years for each movie, some were amazing, some were terrible, but every few X-Men movies, the franchise leaps forward...

 

[Carlo Comicus]

It's a good movie. I don't understand the USA critics.

 

[Cktopl33]

But who's to say it "should" feel upscale? It's an adaptation, and interpretation of a comic book. The scale is what it is.

That claustrophobic feeling could very well be the actual intent of the filmmakers. It can act as a metaphor for how Jean feels inside of her own mind and body. Being constrained and restricted could be a theme worked into the subtext. It's a style and an atmosphere. Just sayin... you have to look at each film for what it is and who made it.

To me, if they were intending to do smaller scale film (seems they started out that way with a lower *cut* budget than the previous few), they should have pushed it rated R....left out the alien bits and made Chastain and her goons regular mutants in a secret society/Illuminati thing....leave it earthbound (no alien subplot) but with bigger action or power displays. I think it would have gotten bigger returns and better reception.

It would have been cool if in the opening sequence we see a series of scenes with young Jean sensing something (piece of the Phoenix force) attempting to invade her mind that distracts her causing the crash, then a scene of Xavier consoling her, then a scene from one of the comics where he's attempting to help her control her power while walking through a mall and she has an outburst flinging people up in the air. Then cut to present day where we see the space shuttle lift off and the X-men practicing in the danger room (doesn't have to be complex, maybe them testing their abilities against each other in a team face-off) where we get a feel for each of the characters and their personalities (and some power display). After they wrap, then they get the news that NASA needs their help and they have a discussion about the dangers in the break room. Then, while in space, a slow to fast build up to disaster. That would have been a stronger opening/first act, in my opinion.

Spoiler

After the space mission, instead of the x-men having a party with a Dazzler cameo, it would have been cool if they were sent on a mission to a performance featuring Dazzler where we first encounter a secretive Chastain figure and her band of Mutants (instead of aliens) attempting to capture Dazzler. That would be an interesting bit where the x-men fight them and realize the extent of how Jean's power has increased because of the space disaster. Then they could introduce a series of ways for Chastain attempting to create instability in Jeans mind through manipulation/illusion/psychological torture causing her to loose control of her powers and the x-men dealing with the effects. Probably woudn't need the Magneto/Genosha bit at all. Or instead of Genosha, just call it a regular island/sanctuary (since people don't like it being called Genosha) and use that as one of the defining sequences where Chastain could manipulate Jean into destroying similar to Cassandra Nova as a replacement to the comic version with the destruction of the D'Bari. Chastain doesn't even have to be Nova. I just feel it would have had a stronger impact. It would give a better sense of how Jean becomes corrupted....or at least reflect the different mind state a person has when they become completely detached from reality and have a psychosis episode if they want to frame it more in mental illness. I felt that wasn't strong enough in the film.

 

[TheScarecrow]

I don't mean Disney's movie. I mean movie in disney stye.
Deadpool is very disney-ish. the greater violence it's not the point.
So Wonder Woman is a perfect disney style movie.

Logan was not submit as superhero movie (and it has the same score of Homecoming, that said much more)

I don't wanna make any war.
I like disney style.

but even if i like sushi, if they close all other type restaurant, i will think it is a problem.

Neither Wonder Woman nor Deadpool are "Disney-style" movies.

WW is pure WB style - very Hollywood, very classic movie-making. Deadpool is so far removed from what Disney does.

I cannot think of a single film made by Disney which is close to either in terms of tone, production values, story or talent...

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Love it!

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Ah yes. Taika Waititi and Ryan Coogler can only dream of reaching the mountainous heights of, wait for it, Timothy Miller.

 

[DyeLorean]

I'm surprised to say I really really liked this film.

 

[FTCBIRDMAN]

Why do I see posts saying they don't think the movie is all that great but that they disagree with the Rotten Tomatoes score? Do we really still not know how Rotten Tomatoes works? If you don't think it's a great movie, the Rotten Tomatoes score just means that 76% of critics agree with you. All they do is post critic reviews. The score is simply based on the percentage of critics that gave it a Rotten review vs. those that gave it a fresh review. It's weird that anytime there is a movie that receives negative reviews, this has to be explained

 

[elementalrage]

I mean... I honestly don't even how to feel about these movies anymore. DOFP brought the franchise back to life then they squandered it again (I know there's Logan, but that was standalone movie).

This movie wasn't "bad", it was just very... vestigial and rehashed. Sophie Turner and Tye Sheridan did a decent job. McAvoy and Fassbender are always great. Storm was once again underused. Beast and Nightcrawler were meh. Jennifer Lawrence... Lord. If you thought she was phoning it in for Apocalypse you should see her here.

I'd give it a 74%. I'm just glad they're going back to Marvel even though we won't see them for a few years.

 

[BobJM]

I enjoyed this. Could have been 10-15 minutes longer to help expand upon some character developments. Magneto feels as superfluous here as Wolverine’s cameo in Apocalypse. It’s not a terrible thing, just a note.

Cool power displays & visuals here. Sure Storm isn’t the main player, but she has her moments. Same with Nightcrawler. A longer runtime would have really helped these two, as well as Beast and Cyclops.

Not my favorite of the new films, but not the worst X-Men movie.

 

[Nadia]

I enjoyed this. Could have been 10-15 minutes longer to help expand upon some character developments. Magneto feels as superfluous here as Wolverine’s cameo in Apocalypse. It’s not a terrible thing, just a note.

Cool power displays & visuals here. Sure Storm isn’t the main player, but she has her moments. Same with Nightcrawler. A longer runtime would have really helped these two, as well as Beast and Cyclops.

Not my favorite of the new films, but not the worst X-Men movie.

The short runtime is my biggest issue. It works well up until the end of the Jean House confrontation, then it just rushes to the end.

I think more time needed to be devoted to Chastain and Jeans relationship.
I think Chastain motivation and plan is fine especially in relation to the Phoenix Force (cycle of life and death) but went too quick.
Perhaps have a couple of weeks go by with both the X-men and Magneto Beast separately searching for Jean. And in that time have Chastain explain more about the force and really isolate and manipulate Jean. Turn Jean against the X-men and humanity by inflating her ego and making believe she is a god.

 

[X men Fan]

My first time posting in here. But I really liked the movie. RT critics definitely got this wrong and seemed to have an agenda. Sophie did a great job as Jean

 

[carpenter82]

So I went into this movie without seeing one review/score. I just wanted to have a gut reaction to it. I got out less than an hour ago so I probably need some more time to let it settle. But my gut is that I liked it overall.

However, my biggest problem with it was that some things mainly in the first act just felt off. For example Genosha isn't really set up at all. They never even refer to it as Genosha. Jean just shows up there for some reason that isn't explained. The police showing up to Jean's neighborhood, and the military going to Genosha just come out of nowhere there's no explanation as to why they show up. There's also a weird edit when the FBI agent presumably encounters the alien. You don't see what happens. I didn't even realize what happened there until he showed up later with Jessica Chastain's character. Also, Magneto fighting for Jean at the end didn't feel earned. I hope there's an extended cut down the road, but I'm doubtful since superhero movies rarely release those nowadays.

That stuff aside, I thought Sophie Turner was very good. The action/special effects were all great. It was nice seeing the X-Men fight as a team. I personally thought the train fight/Jean taking on the aliens was awesome. As an adaption of The Dark Phoenix saga it did a good job of capturing the spirit of that story for the most part. Certainly rough around the edges, and not the slam dunk I was hoping it would be but I enjoyed it on a first watch. Perhaps my opinion will change down the line.

 

[Detective Conan]

It's a good movie. I don't understand the USA critics.

A lot of non-American reviewers like the ones from the UK and France also negatively reviewed the film.

 

[Heretic]

My first time posting in here. But I really liked the movie. RT critics definitely got this wrong and seemed to have an agenda. Sophie did a great job as Jean

Critics don't agree with me = Critics have an agenda

 

[Detective Conan]

My first time posting in here. But I really liked the movie. RT critics definitely got this wrong and seemed to have an agenda. Sophie did a great job as Jean

I always facepalm whenever someone throws these delusional accusations that critics are biased against a franchise they’ve given mostly positive reviews to.

And no the critics weren’t really ‘wrong’ nor were they really ‘right’. They were only honest with their feelings of the movie. Least you forget movies are subjective.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Neither Wonder Woman nor Deadpool are "Disney-style" movies.

WW is pure WB style - very Hollywood, very classic movie-making. Deadpool is so far removed from what Disney does.

I cannot think of a single film made by Disney which is close to either in terms of tone, production values, story or talent...

"Disney-style" = fun and colorful = immature and kiddy

 

[BMM]

I posted in the main thread. 6.5/10 for me.

Visuals, sound were really top notch. Sophie was just amazing. You can tell she tried.

The actors weren't really the issue for me. The script was. I almost laughed out loud when Magneto yelled, "I know whose blood that was!"

 

[MeralysMystica]

"Disney-style" = fun and colorful = immature and kiddy

No. I don't say that.

The disney-style (in live-action) is a recent way (born with the Marvel Studios takeover ) to make movie in a way translated from TV production.

Not like we havent' seen that way before (non only Iron Man, but even most of Fox production like the two F4 by Story, or Orgins are basically in that style and a ton of comedy too) but if earlier that come manily from list-b directors (like Favreau) or worse (Story) used by Company to 'play' safely with Feige/Disney it become a very production system that they master at a perfect level with better quality.

It's not about make jokes. it's not the comedy side.
It's mainly to the total subordination of image (that is the crucial point of cinema) to script.
What Pauline Kael said about Star Wars in 1977 it's even more true about Disney/Marvel/Lucas of today. "There’s no breather in the picture, no lyricism"
That means also that you dont' find characters take their time to speak, but we have always that ping-pong effect in dialogue to take constantly up audience's attention.
That means also Characters have to be... 'monolithic,straight in your face, 'cause audience must not have doubt about their mind, there not subtle life in them.
That means that there isn't use of photography/colour/rhytm to narrate, to said something.
We can read the script and we don't miss anything.
You cannot do the same in (example) Kubrick's 2001

In Singer, Mangold and even Kinberg (but i think maily thank to dop Fiore) there is more balance in that.

Than the final result is another thing (example: IW* is a better movie than X1).

*Russo said that for the last two Avengers they look at the great(est) italian Antonioni but i have to say that it is a very very little impact (mainly in IW), a very bland concession to the power of image through color setting

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spoiler

Dark Phoenix (2019) Review​

The Avengers were not the only team coming to the end of an era this year. Overshadowed by the MCU’s end of the Infinity Saga and forgotten amidst a crowded summer as a whole is the final film in the pantheon of Fox’s X-Men universe that was established in 2001 with Bryan Singer’s X-Men and helped usher in the era of the comic book superhero film as a major force in Hollywood. With Disney’s purchase of 20th Century Fox, the end of this 19 year old franchise was clear. Getting to the big screen has been a bit of a journey for this latest entry, however. The film was due to come out last November but was delayed on 2 occasions before settling on its current release date, largely due to a hefty amount of reshoots that took place. Heavy delays and several months of reshoots are rarely a positive sign for a movie. Buzz for Dark Phoenix has been toxic basically since inception, and it’s current Rotten Tomatoes score rivals bottom of the barrell films such as Blade: Trinity or Green Lantern. So that begs the question: is the movie as bad as advertised?


Much of the hatred for this has been directed towards Simon Kinberg. Between his used car salesman use of buzzwords and his attachment to other much maligned films as the most recent Fantastic Four and his various X-Men film credits as writer, here we see Simon step into the director’s chair for the first time. For his directorial debut, Simon opted to use the Dark Phoenix story for the franchise’s second time. Kinberg was also a writer on the previous attempt at this story in X-Men: The Last Stand. His efforts here are a mixed bag. The movie itself looks competently shot and the special effects are mostly good. The film itself looks professional. But there are serious pacing issues with this film. Every scene feels like they end abruptly so that we can move on to the next scene. Very few scenes are allowed to linger and build properly, which hurts character development. Would it have hurt to add like 5 minutes to the movie so we could breathe a little?


Kinberg has been talking up a storm about wanting to do right by this story, but this film I don’t feel was ever in a position to succeed and was flawed from conception. X-Men: Apocalypse made a monumental mistake in choosing to neglect the development of Cyclops, Jean, etc. X-Men: Days of Future Past felt like a movie that should have been the end of the core First Class team’s story with them as the primary focus, and X-Men: Apocalypse should have passed the torch to the new core team. But by not properly developing them in that movie, it did Dark Phoenix a great disservice. The story is well liked because of its moral complexity in part, but what really makes it a classic is the loyalty that we had to those characters in the story by the time we got to the Dark Phoenix story. Even X-Men: The Last Stand had 2 prior films to build off of when bringing that story to life, but here we see an underdeveloped Jean Grey that we don’t ultimately care about being overtaken by the entity, hurting her underdeveloped friends, etc. In essence, you cannot do this type of story without proper development. It won’t land with audiences the way you want them to. This feels like something that could have worked in the sequel to this movie, not this movie. Yeah, pacing issues and such don’t do you any favors when you’re trying to craft the story also, but even if the script were amazing, I feel the audience still would not have cared to the extent they were hoping for.


Acting here is hit and miss. Much has also been made about Jennifer Lawrence and her very public desire to be done with this franchise. Here’s what I know about Lawrence based on her performance in this movie: she showed up to set, said the lines she was legally obligated to say, and got a paycheck. She gives her lines absolutely no weight to them whatsoever and it is almost comical at times. The worst example being when she is trying to reach Jean and talk her down. That scene is hilarious to watch because of how unconvincing she is. But I do feel a genuine amount of care amongst the cast in the movie, overall. James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender are much better in this movie than their previous efforts. Magneto may even be MVP of the movie, which is a fine turn around given how much I hated his arc and the obvious lack of ideas with him in X-Men: Apocalypse. Tye Sheridan actually plays Cyclops like a person for the first time maybe in this whole series. Nicholas Hoult does a fine job, as well. Sophie Turner is good in this movie, but strangely for a movie called Dark Phoenix, I felt she disappeared into the background of the plot way too much. The rest of the main X-Men in the movie are background fodder, though. They don’t get much to do. That brings me to Jessica Chastain’s character. If there is on fatally underbaked element of the plot, it is the alien threat. They’re basically not in the movie. They show up a few times sporadically, but outside of being the fight at the end, they do nothing. Chastain’s character woefully suffers due to this. It’s not really her fault. She is doing everything she is told to do fine, but this entire plot line needed taken back to formula. It just doesn’t work.


While the film is ultimately a disappointing end to what was once a proud franchise, I don’t feel like it as bad as true abominations of superhero cinema. This is not a great movie by any means. There is plenty of things wrong with it. But it is not all bad. There are some well done action sequences, the special effects are largely very good outside of a few bits clearly from reshoots they didn’t get time to finish, and there some interesting ideas in the story at times. The film is probably closer in quality to the likes of X-Men: Apocalypse than it is X-Men Origins: Wolverine. It’s not so bad it’s good and it’s not so bad it’s unwatchable. It just sort of exists. Perhaps this series should have ended with Logan, outside of the Deadpool films of course, but let us not forget everything this franchise did for making the superhero film respectable. That doesn’t improve the quality of this film by any means, but with the franchise coming to an end I do want to offer the Fox X-Men films a genuine thank you for what they did. It’s not always been perfect, there have been ups and downs, but I will continue to enjoy the genuine gems of the series. While probably forgetting about this one, of course.



Overall Rating - 2 out of 5

 

[shinlyle]

I always facepalm whenever someone throws these delusional accusations that critics are biased against a franchise they’ve given mostly positive reviews to.

And no the critics weren’t really ‘wrong’ nor were they really ‘right’. They were only honest with their feelings of the movie. Least you forget movies are subjective.

I always facepalm when people say that simply because, had things been different and the film earned a 90% plus on Rotten Tomatoes, then they would be saying "Look at that RT SCORE! It's AWESOME!!"

You can't discredit a site when it's against you and then praise it when it's for you. Take the good with the bad. Also, as has been said, they just do an average of the critics' scores. No agenda.

 

[divan]

Eh, it was okay I guess but kind of a waste of time. Frankly, I really liked the first 10/20 minutes or so and I loved the world they were presenting with the X-Men as true superheroes, walking that line between being loved and disliked. It's the most creative thing the I've seen in an X-Men movie since X2. And then they waste such an intriguing scenario just to remake The Last Stand. Also, the totally-not-Skrulls felt tacked on.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Spoiler

Dark Phoenix (2019) Review​

The Avengers were not the only team coming to the end of an era this year. Overshadowed by the MCU’s end of the Infinity Saga and forgotten amidst a crowded summer as a whole is the final film in the pantheon of Fox’s X-Men universe that was established in 2001 with Bryan Singer’s X-Men and helped usher in the era of the comic book superhero film as a major force in Hollywood. With Disney’s purchase of 20th Century Fox, the end of this 19 year old franchise was clear. Getting to the big screen has been a bit of a journey for this latest entry, however. The film was due to come out last November but was delayed on 2 occasions before settling on its current release date, largely due to a hefty amount of reshoots that took place. Heavy delays and several months of reshoots are rarely a positive sign for a movie. Buzz for Dark Phoenix has been toxic basically since inception, and it’s current Rotten Tomatoes score rivals bottom of the barrell films such as Blade: Trinity or Green Lantern. So that begs the question: is the movie as bad as advertised?


Much of the hatred for this has been directed towards Simon Kinberg. Between his used car salesman use of buzzwords and his attachment to other much maligned films as the most recent Fantastic Four and his various X-Men film credits as writer, here we see Simon step into the director’s chair for the first time. For his directorial debut, Simon opted to use the Dark Phoenix story for the franchise’s second time. Kinberg was also a writer on the previous attempt at this story in X-Men: The Last Stand. His efforts here are a mixed bag. The movie itself looks competently shot and the special effects are mostly good. The film itself looks professional. But there are serious pacing issues with this film. Every scene feels like they end abruptly so that we can move on to the next scene. Very few scenes are allowed to linger and build properly, which hurts character development. Would it have hurt to add like 5 minutes to the movie so we could breathe a little?


Kinberg has been talking up a storm about wanting to do right by this story, but this film I don’t feel was ever in a position to succeed and was flawed from conception. X-Men: Apocalypse made a monumental mistake in choosing to neglect the development of Cyclops, Jean, etc. X-Men: Days of Future Past felt like a movie that should have been the end of the core First Class team’s story with them as the primary focus, and X-Men: Apocalypse should have passed the torch to the new core team. But by not properly developing them in that movie, it did Dark Phoenix a great disservice. The story is well liked because of its moral complexity in part, but what really makes it a classic is the loyalty that we had to those characters in the story by the time we got to the Dark Phoenix story. Even X-Men: The Last Stand had 2 prior films to build off of when bringing that story to life, but here we see an underdeveloped Jean Grey that we don’t ultimately care about being overtaken by the entity, hurting her underdeveloped friends, etc. In essence, you cannot do this type of story without proper development. It won’t land with audiences the way you want them to. This feels like something that could have worked in the sequel to this movie, not this movie. Yeah, pacing issues and such don’t do you any favors when you’re trying to craft the story also, but even if the script were amazing, I feel the audience still would not have cared to the extent they were hoping for.


Acting here is hit and miss. Much has also been made about Jennifer Lawrence and her very public desire to be done with this franchise. Here’s what I know about Lawrence based on her performance in this movie: she showed up to set, said the lines she was legally obligated to say, and got a paycheck. She gives her lines absolutely no weight to them whatsoever and it is almost comical at times. The worst example being when she is trying to reach Jean and talk her down. That scene is hilarious to watch because of how unconvincing she is. But I do feel a genuine amount of care amongst the cast in the movie, overall. James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender are much better in this movie than their previous efforts. Magneto may even be MVP of the movie, which is a fine turn around given how much I hated his arc and the obvious lack of ideas with him in X-Men: Apocalypse. Tye Sheridan actually plays Cyclops like a person for the first time maybe in this whole series. Nicholas Hoult does a fine job, as well. Sophie Turner is good in this movie, but strangely for a movie called Dark Phoenix, I felt she disappeared into the background of the plot way too much. The rest of the main X-Men in the movie are background fodder, though. They don’t get much to do. That brings me to Jessica Chastain’s character. If there is on fatally underbaked element of the plot, it is the alien threat. They’re basically not in the movie. They show up a few times sporadically, but outside of being the fight at the end, they do nothing. Chastain’s character woefully suffers due to this. It’s not really her fault. She is doing everything she is told to do fine, but this entire plot line needed taken back to formula. It just doesn’t work.


While the film is ultimately a disappointing end to what was once a proud franchise, I don’t feel like it as bad as true abominations of superhero cinema. This is not a great movie by any means. There is plenty of things wrong with it. But it is not all bad. There are some well done action sequences, the special effects are largely very good outside of a few bits clearly from reshoots they didn’t get time to finish, and there some interesting ideas in the story at times. The film is probably closer in quality to the likes of X-Men: Apocalypse than it is X-Men Origins: Wolverine. It’s not so bad it’s good and it’s not so bad it’s unwatchable. It just sort of exists. Perhaps this series should have ended with Logan, outside of the Deadpool films of course, but let us not forget everything this franchise did for making the superhero film respectable. That doesn’t improve the quality of this film by any means, but with the franchise coming to an end I do want to offer the Fox X-Men films a genuine thank you for what they did. It’s not always been perfect, there have been ups and downs, but I will continue to enjoy the genuine gems of the series. While probably forgetting about this one, of course.



Overall Rating - 2 out of 5

It's funny, but a lot of what you said here I said the exact same when they announced this was gonna be another adaptation of the Dark Phoenix storyline. We needed another movie in between to not only develop the new team, but to develop Jean and Scott's relationship also. They should have gone with the Proteus story before this one. THEN do Dark Phoenix. But maybe they knew about the merger at this point and wanted to do a big storyline for the last movie, who knows.

Anyway, seeing this myself at some point but your comments struck a cord with me as I was saying it 2 years ago.