Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix Skepticism Thread

[FilmNerdJamie]

A fair question to ask given one Mr. Kinberg's spotty track-record as a writer-producer and the fact that he bears responsibility for Fantastic Four and X-Men: Apocalypse... but has somehow escaped blow-back.

It speaks volumes that Fox is willing to propel this to Days of Future Past-level budget solely based on getting the First Class cast back (who, yes I prefer to the original cast but judging by BO receipts... the GA vehemently disagrees)... especially the Oscar-winning Ms. Lawrence.

Which in itself presents a narrative problem.

The Phoenix is Jean & Scott's story... with two actors we haven't necessarily warmed up to in the roles (They were fine in Apocalypse but failed to stand out) let alone establish a relationship... hence drama/stakes. But if you're paying $10-$15M to the returning Jennifer Lawrence as opposed to the peanuts at the contractually-obliged Turner and Sheridan, then you know attention will deviate to the higher-paid talent.

It's also just too out-there, given the tone set before them. Yes, DOFP introduced time-travel outta nowhere but Mr. Singer is also adept in establishing rules and sticking to them. Hence why that worked. But throwing in outer-space and more cosmic elements is the kind of "...the bad place?" shift that results in, say, Moonraker.

For all the ungratefulness and smack-talk, fans are going to look back and realize just how good they had it with ol' Bryan.

 

[Weather Witch]

A lot of good points there and I do agree with quite a few of them. Though for me Jean and Scott were actually a highlight of Apocalypse.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I tell you now there is no way Singer would come onboard and say nah its to early for the phoenix story, no he would do exactly the same thing and make it with this movie.

As for setting rules... what rules did he set?

The impression i get from singer is that he is a very relaxed guy when it comes making things work, like everyone instantly made it sound like he hated X3 for a very long time but no Singer has never said he hated X3, he has been pretty fair with that movie.

 

[marvelrobbins]

A fair question to ask given one Mr. Kinberg's spotty track-record as a writer-producer and the fact that he bears responsibility for Fantastic Four and X-Men: Apocalypse... but has somehow escaped blow-back.

It speaks volumes that Fox is willing to propel this to Days of Future Past-level budget solely based on getting the First Class cast back (who, yes I prefer to the original cast but judging by BO receipts... the GA vehemently disagrees)... especially the Oscar-winning Ms. Lawrence.

Which in itself presents a narrative problem.

The Phoenix is Jean & Scott's story... with two actors we haven't necessarily warmed up to in the roles (They were fine in Apocalypse but failed to stand out) let alone establish a relationship... hence drama/stakes. But if you're paying $10-$15M to the returning Jennifer Lawrence as opposed to the peanuts at the contractually-obliged Turner and Sheridan, then you know attention will deviate to the higher-paid talent.

It's also just too out-there, given the tone set before them. Yes, DOFP introduced time-travel outta nowhere but Mr. Singer is also adept in establishing rules and sticking to them. Hence why that worked. But throwing in outer-space and more cosmic elements is the kind of "...the bad place?" shift that results in, say, Moonraker.

For all the ungratefulness and smack-talk, fans are going to look back and realize just how good they had it with ol' Bryan.

i prefer original cast and like apocalypse but if rumors were true there is reason why apocalypse is weakest of the 4 singer directed film.

unlike jackman who had people moaning about him even in dofp where wolverine clearly wasn't focus on film fans and ga liked him.and he helped create intrest.lawrence has none of that.come onw e all know apocalypse made money ti did because x-men fans ww came out.ga wasn't as intrested as they were in dodfp,original trilogy,and logan.

you and i are in agreement with bryan singer.bad place i have feeling some may come out of dark phoenix saying apocalypse wasn't so bad afterall.

 

[marcvader]

I agree. The new kid XMen were the highlight for me and made my interest perk up when they showed up.

 

[marvelrobbins]

A lot of good points there and I do agree with quite a few of them. Though for me Jean and Scott were actually a highlight of Apocalypse.

i feel in context of actual film not promation jean is more actuly female lead of apocalypse.singer clearly was making up for cyclops getting short end of the stick in x2.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

For all the ungratefulness and smack-talk, fans are going to look back and realize just how good they had it with ol' Bryan.

Nah

 

[Weather Witch]

i feel in context of actual film not promation jean is more actuly female lead of apocalypse.singer clearly was making up for cyclops getting short end of the stick in x2.

I agree on both accounts.

 

[2kt09]

As for setting rules... what rules did he set?

a ticking time bomb
the sense of urgency and desperation

 

[GuestStar2004]

If anything there is a tiny teeny weeny bit of a lack of rules.

 

[Frankeh]

I tell you now there is no way Singer would come onboard and say nah its to early for the phoenix story, no he would do exactly the same thing and make it with this movie.

Even if he did it would automatically be more assuring than whatever we're gonna get with Kinberg because he's an actual director and he actually build up Phoenix in the Original Trilogy. That's not assumption, that's documented.

Plus for all your talk about people assuming things you sure like assuming what Kinberg and Singer would or wouldn't do. Especially taking into account the fact that Singer filtered Kinberg's ideas.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Even if he did it would automatically be more assuring than whatever we're gonna get with Kinberg because he's an actual director and he actually build up Phoenix in the Original Trilogy.

I don't see how that makes much difference at all when it comes to the next movie.

And no one is a director until they are a director.

Plus for all your talk about people assuming things you sure like assuming what Kinberg and Singer would or wouldn't do. Especially taking into account the fact that Singer filtered Kinberg's ideas.

who filtered Singers ideas or were they all the right ones that you have never complained about ever

 

[Frankeh]

I don't see how that makes much difference at all

And no one is a director until they are a director.

200 mill movies should go to people who are directors.

who filtered singers ideas or were they all the right ones that you have never complained about ever

It doesn't matter. The point is your argument that every decision Kinberg makes is one Singer would make is false.

 

[marvelrobbins]

200 mill movies should go to people who are directors.

It doesn't matter. The point is your argument that every decision Kinberg makes is one Singer would make is false.

it doesn't matter about singer.for dark phoenix he's a pruducer in name only.rumor is they were clashes bts on apocalypse between singer and kinberg.

singer is actuly director.kinberg only ghost directed reshoots on ff and apparently a few scenes of apocalypse when singer was away from set.singer
has directed 3 sussessful x-men films to good reception.kinberg has questable ability as writer.

DOFP may have been success and quality that is whas because singer had more control than kinberg.just because singer and kinberg played nice for promation of apocalypse doesn't mean anything.kinberg and josh trank were playing nice on ff till trank decered to premptivly blame fox for film.it was only then fox let cat out of bag on how troubled production really was.

 

[GuestStar2004]

200 mill movies should go to people who are directors.

It doesn't matter. The point is your argument that every decision Kinberg makes is one Singer would make is false.

Not every decision Kinberg makes is one Singer would make, heck Kinberg could be more willing to show off storms powers then what singer ever was willing to do so it goes both ways really.

Singer comes across as a pretty relaxed guy when it comes to this stuff, Like back in 2010 he told fox that if they made FC it had to be an origin story for Xavier and Magneto and i imagine the other characters were likely brought in because it needed to be disguised as an X-Men movie and so that is what we got.

He then helped write the story and made creative changes to even his own past work to make it work on screen.

Now if you want to believe that Singer is this passionate X-Men fan that he wouldn't believe it was possible to pull of the next Film being Dark Phoenix... then thats all on you

 

[Avenging Angel]

Trank only has himself to blame, I remember IMDB before they closed the forums bring up his many twitter meltdowns for faux pas he caused for FF.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

Oh... could I tell you some Trank stories on that set... Ooof.

 

[GuestStar2004]

.rumor is they were clashes bts on apocalypse between singer and kinberg.

What is the origin of this rumor? because Singer and kinberg seem to get on very well, heck singer even through out positive words for Kinberg on instagram.

I think you are looking for some excuse as to why Singer directed apocalypse and why it wasn't a critical hit rather then the fact that its not like jack the giant slayer was this huge hit either so singer is not this flawless director.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Trank only has himself to blame, I remember IMDB before they closed the forums bring up his many twitter meltdowns for faux pas he caused for FF.

The whole FF thing seemed like it was in a horrible place from the start.

I think it was said FOX cut 20 million of the budget just as filming started and so action pieces had to be taken out of the script.

 

[marvelrobbins]

What is the origin of this rumour? because Singer and kinberg seem to get on very well, heck singer even through out positive words for Kinberg on instagram.

I think you are looking for some excuse as to why Singer directed apocalypse and it wasn't a critical hit rather then the fact that its not like jack the giant slayer was this huge hit either so singer is not this flawless director.

they are on social media.i certinly didn't make them up.the rumors would explain some things if true.your also naive if you think some don't fake it during promation and interviews.Apocalypse was defently the weakest of the 4 singer directed films.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Dear admins, please close this thread.

#HatersGonnaHate

 

[Frankeh]

Not every decision Kinberg makes is one Singer would make,

So why were you telling people a few weeks ago that they had double standards because Kinberg's decisions with this movie would likely have been made by Singer? Flip-flopping on your stance?

heck Kinberg could be more willing to show off storms powers then what singer ever was willing to do

Based on?

Now if you want to believe that Singer is this passionate X-Men fan

LOL I would never say that. He clearly doesn't give a rat about the potential in several iconic X-Men. But I do see in his OT movies more passion for Phoenix than Kinberg demonstrated with TLS, and I don't care if he's regretful, regret doesn't make good movies.

And of course Singer wouldn't say they can't pull it off in one movie. It would be a job to him and he would promote it rather than trash it.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Oh... could I tell you some Trank stories on that set... Ooof.

sure now that set had a lot of horror storys.that film was doomed from moment fox hired trank and went with his darker take on ff.and no aount of rediting and reshooting the third act was going to save film even if it was someone other than Kinberg.even if fox brought on vaughn to direct reshoots doudtful he could have saved it.

even x-men films have had to go with less money.singer made first x-men for 75 million.even vaughn had to do first class with less money than he wanted.

 

[marcvader]

Dear admins, please close this thread.

#HatersGonnaHate

So you would prefer all these posts and bickering in the regular discussion thread?

 

[GuestStar2004]

they are on social media.i certinly didn't make them up.the rumors would explain some things if true.your also naive if you think some don't fake it during promation and interviews.Apocalypse was defently the weakest of the 4 singer directed films.

Sorry but you also said a while ago that there was a rumor Singer ghost directed FC, almost like you was trying to find a way to make Singer look more responsible for its good reception

And now with apocalypse you are saying he and kinberg clearly clashed which resulted in a lesser movie when i can't remember reading anything like that and he clearly had good words to say about him recently so there is obviously no bad blood there.

Infact since singer is producing Dark Phoenix whose to say wasn't one of those reposibile for getting kinberg to direct just like he did when he got Vaughn onboard for FC?