X-Men Forum Debate No. 8

[X-Maniac]

A COLOSSAL QUESTION.... Did the steel-armoured mutant get the right treatment?

In X2, we got a fantastic glimpse of Colossus - bullets bounced off him, soldiers were smashed through a wall, he carried one of the children and helped the other kids by leading them to safety. That's all we saw of him. A good enough start though!

In X3, Colossus touched Rogue in the Danger Room and she (rather quickly) acquired his steel armour power. He also launched Wolverine into the air with the legendary 'fastball special' manoeuvre, which he repeated at Alcatraz. Other than that, we saw little more. We saw Peter carrying a TV set in the mansion hallway (was that Scott's!?), we heard a single line of dialogue 'She took off', we saw a close-up on his face on the flight to Alcatraz, but scenes of him teaming up with Bobby to defeat Phat were deleted.

So, did Colossus get the screentime he deserved? Could Colossus have a greater role in the movieverse? Did we get the best we could get considering the limited time and scope of three movies? How might it be improved in any future films? Is Colossus ever going to factor into the main plot in any big way or will be always be dumb muscle?

Did we expect too much from X3? Was it going to be able to deliver on everything that Bryan had held back or teased us about? Is it unfair to have expected any more from Colossus in the third movie?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Thank you X-Maniac...

In answer to your question, this character has been wasted thusfar.

Honestly I'd like to see the Ultimate version of Colossus on-screen--but played by someone even more masculine and macho in vibe than Daniel Cudmore. A "man's man" muscular hero would totally flip the stereotype on its head. Also, the controversial nature of it all would fit in well with the whole "fear/protect/hated" mythos...and would be a change of pace for these comic book films...who we all know have a huge gay following.

 

[X-Maniac]

Yes, X-Men has a huge gay following, of course... although gays probably weren't the intended allegory back in the early 60s (and not one I recognised when I read my first X-Men comic in 1975!).

Colossus was made a gentle artist in the comics, a gay man in one comicbook series, and the movie version does attract gay interest, for sure. I know men who totally drool over him and Cudmore does have a very attractive face - add muscles and leather to the mix and you have an icon! Not only is he someone gay men might be attracted to, he is someone they might also admire, and a role model in terms of being someone who has the power to fight back against oppression/hate through his sheer physical size and his steel armour.

Sadly, we got only a small role in the movies. Bryan did add in some of the comicbook artist stuff, and that was a wonderful touch.

X3 added the fastball but nothing else that was really special or memorable. Carrying a TV down a corridor is hardly a good use of screentime. Very crap.

And fans expected a showdown with Juggernaut, only to be denied that, although someone on here was claiming they'd seen an advance screening with such a fight in it! That person must surely have been deliberately and falsely hyping the movie to get people to see it....

I think his role in X3 might have been improved - replace the TV scene with something else, add in a Colossus vs Juggs fight (even if brief... Magneto could have frozen Colossus in the air so Juggs could relentlessly bash him, forcing Colossus to turn back to flesh to escape Magneto's control, then be knocked out)...

I think he could factor more into the main story, but it would take some considered thinking, as he's never really been a central character to the stories.

X3 was largely disappointing on the Colossus front. Sigh.

 

[taintedFB]

X3, was disappointing on many fronts (Cyclops fans across the globe are bummed) but I think Colossus was wasted as well. Although, from what I've read Cudmore has limited acting ability and perhaps that caused his limited dialogue. I am sure it is hard to find someone that tall, that muscular, with that look and still be a talented actor. I think because they knew his limitations, they didn't give him much to do..

And let's not forget that X3 was essentially the Hugh and Halle show, and oh wait, let's give Famke a little something too... and everyone else just got scraps.

On the other hand, at least he appeared and lives on....

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I would agree that Colossus was barely used...let alone right.In X-3 the focus was more on Phoenix,Wolverine and Storm.Which was a bad idea,its a shame.Colossus`s image in the film was good,but he should have been older.

 

[Angamb]

Agreed that his role could have been a bit better and bigger. The issue was giving him a few more lines in the scenes he was:

- like the danger room, just one line, at least, would have been nice, to see that he is a person too, not just a mutant with a nice power. Something like "be careful, Rogue" would have been great.

-Then, the team scene after Xavier's death. I never understod why he wasn't there, if he is an x-men already. In the novel, the line of Bobby was his. something like "some of us don't have where to go". just with that, we can see he has an opinion too, and that can make other take decision, like Storm in this case, deciding to let the school open.

-The "tv scene". His line was a bad one, because to me, it seemed that he don't care about Rogue leaving the school, knowing there is a cure out there, and seeing Bobby worried for her. He should have said other thing, more carefully and worried too about Rogue. something like "Bobby.... one of the kids saw her leaving... do you think she..." (don't know, I think you understand my idea)

-And the other team scene before the battle. He should have showed an opinion too, saying something like "you need help, Logan, and you know what I can do"

these are just some ideas, maybe the words aren't the best (I'm spanish), but I think the general idea is there. What do you think?

 

[Sun_Down]

I think they missed out on a big (pardon the pun) opportunity with Colossus. I think he could've been a major character in the series, but he got put off too long. But by the time we got to X3, it was really too let to develop his character with everything else going on. In X3, it felt like he was basically just there to satisfy the fans. He really contributed nothing to the film. The scene in the X-Jet where they zoomed in on everyone's face before the final battle just made me laugh when they got to Colossus. We had all this dramatic build-up with all the characters from the last two films and their faces said so much about their situation, then we get to Peter and it's just like "Hey, I'm here".

 

[Crimson Warrior]

X3, was disappointing on many fronts (Cyclops fans across the globe are bummed) but I think Colossus was wasted as well. Although, from what I've read Cudmore has limited acting ability and perhaps that caused his limited dialogue. I am sure it is hard to find someone that tall, that muscular, with that look and still be a talented actor. I think because they knew his limitations, they didn't give him much to do..

And let's not forget that X3 was essentially the Hugh and Halle show, and oh wait, let's give Famke a little something too... and everyone else just got scraps.

On the other hand, at least he appeared and lives on....

As a lot of you on here know, I am huge Colossus fan and I have spent months debating his role in X3 and I am now too exhausted to repeat them (you can have a look in the Colossus thread). However, one thing that has always bugged me is Cudmore's supposed lack of acting ability claims. I have seen him in every short role he has been given and honestly they are not enough to judge his acting ability from. He is good speaker and has this natural Colossus vibe to him. I spoke with him on his myspace account, he genuinely likes playing Colossus, and I think he should have gotten the chance to prove himself.

But meh we will never truly know what went into the decision to dull down his roll but in my opinion there was just too many intersecting roles, crammed storylines, and a whole world of production troubles that caused his plight. The metal effect appeared to be rushed and well all know the rest. Sorry for rambling……

 

[MoPlaYa]

Before I saw X3 I knew Colossus wasnt going to have a huge role but I was hoping he would do enough in X3 to keep us Colossus fans happy...Boy was I wrong?

Just like Crimson Warrior, I`ve said alot about him on the Colossus Thread..Too much probably... I hope both Daniel Cudmore and Colossus get thier time to shine.

 

[Angamb]

What do you think about the ideas of my previous post here?

 

[flavio_lebeau]

According to those previs on the dvd, Colossus was supposed to be the one to shine on the Danger Room training session. If I'm not mistaken, he and Rogue had 2 or three lines. The mission was that they had to enter a door within a time limit, and Colossus answers Rogue how much time is left. He is also caught by a tentacle.

It's a shame he didn't get much to do, and, if I had to choose his best part, it's obviously X2. He had "his" moment to shine solo, and still had a more relevant line, that showed he was a nice man, concerned with the school. Also, we got a glimpse of his drawing skills.
So, I think we got to know a lot more about him in X2, even though his role was supposed to be bigger in X3, since he became a team member. I think if he died in Alcatraz, no one would note his absense.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Agreed that his role could have been a bit better and bigger. The issue was giving him a few more lines in the scenes he was:

- like the danger room, just one line, at least, would have been nice, to see that he is a person too, not just a mutant with a nice power. Something like "be careful, Rogue" would have been great.

-Then, the team scene after Xavier's death. I never understod why he wasn't there, if he is an x-men already. In the novel, the line of Bobby was his. something like "some of us don't have where to go". just with that, we can see he has an opinion too, and that can make other take decision, like Storm in this case, deciding to let the school open.

-The "tv scene". His line was a bad one, because to me, it seemed that he don't care about Rogue leaving the school, knowing there is a cure out there, and seeing Bobby worried for her. He should have said other thing, more carefully and worried too about Rogue. something like "Bobby.... one of the kids saw her leaving... do you think she..." (don't know, I think you understand my idea)

-And the other team scene before the battle. He should have showed an opinion too, saying something like "you need help, Logan, and you know what I can do"

these are just some ideas, maybe the words aren't the best (I'm spanish), but I think the general idea is there. What do you think?

I quite like your ideas. As little as those lines are, they would make an enourmous difference in his character portrait, giving him a bit of humanity. Even if Cudmore is the worst actor of the world, these short lines wouldn't hurt the movie more than the President's lines did.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

As Colossus is one of my favorite characters from the comics, I definatley would have loved to see more Colossus, and was rather disappointed in X2 when Wolverine told him to "help them".

But with that said, I don't believe that Colossus really got "midhandled".

These movies are a lot more limited than the comics in terms of who can get showcased and such. In the movies, Colossus really didn't have much involvement what so ever with the main plot. In X2, it was about Wolverine and his backstory, and X-Men: The Last Stand was about Jean Grey and her conflict. It was nice to see Colossus in the film, but what exact role was he to play when the story was about Jean and those close to her?

A bit more of Colossus in the final battle definatley would not have been a bad choice. But other than that, there just wasn't much place for Colossus to have a major role in these films. I would have loved to see more, but I don't believe that the little that we did get was somehow "wrong" because it wasn't what we all would have liked. Not everybody can be front and center.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

As Colossus is one of my favorite characters from the comics, I definatley would have loved to see more Colossus, and was rather disappointed in X2 when Wolverine told him to "help them".

But with that said, I don't believe that Colossus really got "midhandled".

These movies are a lot more limited than the comics in terms of who can get showcased and such. In the movies, Colossus really didn't have much involvement what so ever with the main plot. In X2, it was about Wolverine and his backstory, and X-Men: The Last Stand was about Jean Grey and her conflict. It was nice to see Colossus in the film, but what exact role was he to play when the story was about Jean and those close to her?

A bit more of Colossus in the final battle definatley would not have been a bad choice. But other than that, there just wasn't much place for Colossus to have a major role in these films. I would have loved to see more, but I don't believe that the little that we did get was somehow "wrong" because it wasn't what we all would have liked. Not everybody can be front and center.

If you read Angamb's ideas you can see that just a little more short lines in the scenes he already got would make a big difference. So yes, I think he was portrayed fairly poorly, besides him not having anything to do with the plot. It's not only how much he gets, it's how the time he gets is handled. It's like he wasn't even a person with thoughts and opinion. He just blindly did things. To show him participating a little more wouldn't hurt.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

As Colossus is one of my favorite characters from the comics, I definatley would have loved to see more Colossus, and was rather disappointed in X2 when Wolverine told him to "help them".

But with that said, I don't believe that Colossus really got "midhandled".

These movies are a lot more limited than the comics in terms of who can get showcased and such. In the movies, Colossus really didn't have much involvement what so ever with the main plot. In X2, it was about Wolverine and his backstory, and X-Men: The Last Stand was about Jean Grey and her conflict. It was nice to see Colossus in the film, but what exact role was he to play when the story was about Jean and those close to her?

A bit more of Colossus in the final battle definatley would not have been a bad choice. But other than that, there just wasn't much place for Colossus to have a major role in these films. I would have loved to see more, but I don't believe that the little that we did get was somehow "wrong" because it wasn't what we all would have liked. Not everybody can be front and center.

I respect your points nell and they are well stated, but I know that myself as well as the other members of the colossus thread party gang (yes its corny) never really expected him to have a huge role in the plot or become the focus of any of the running storylines. Rather we wanted him to do something more than nod, stand here, throw wolverine, stand some more. As some have stated above you could have taken his same screen time and made the role more memorable by adding more lines and more interaction with the other characters.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Hey, I love Colossus as much as the next guy!

Well, maybe not AS much, Colossus isn't my favorite, but he is in my top 5.

I would have loved more Colossus as much as anyone. And most of (if not all) the suggestions that Angamb made would have been great.

I'm just saying, that given the circumstances, of him not playing any factor in the ongoing story at all, and not even really being set up for in the earlier movies, I don't think he was so much "mishandled"

Left more to be desired? Absolutley. I also wanted to see more Beast, more Nightcrawler, more Cyclops, but I don't think they were mishandled (*cough* okay well Cyclops was, in the 3rd, but in the 1st 2 I think he was handled well).

Although I guess on the same token, Beast, Nightcrawler, and Cyclops at least had their moments, and some actual involvement in the plot.

Anyways, what I'm saying is, I understand completely that people wanted to see more out of Colossus. I wanted to see more out of Colossus. I love Colossus. Gambit, Beast, Cyclops, and Colossus are my top 4 favorite X-Men (my overall top 5 characters being rounded out with Magneto at #2) - and would make a pretty kick ass team in X-Men Legends - but I don't think he was mishandled.

If I were making an X-Men film - or trilogy, however, Colossus would definatley get a lot more focus. I love how Singer handled the X-Men, and how Ratner continued it, but I definatley would have focused on some different things if I were in charge. A larger role for Colossus would be one of those.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Hey, I love Colossus as much as the next guy!

Well, maybe not AS much, Colossus isn't my favorite, but he is in my top 5.

I would have loved more Colossus as much as anyone. And most of (if not all) the suggestions that Angamb made would have been great.

I'm just saying, that given the circumstances, of him not playing any factor in the ongoing story at all, and not even really being set up for in the earlier movies, I don't think he was so much "mishandled"

Left more to be desired? Absolutley. I also wanted to see more Beast, more Nightcrawler, more Cyclops, but I don't think they were mishandled (*cough* okay well Cyclops was, in the 3rd, but in the 1st 2 I think he was handled well).

Although I guess on the same token, Beast, Nightcrawler, and Cyclops at least had their moments, and some actual involvement in the plot.

Anyways, what I'm saying is, I understand completely that people wanted to see more out of Colossus. I wanted to see more out of Colossus. I love Colossus. Gambit, Beast, Cyclops, and Colossus are my top 4 favorite X-Men (my overall top 5 characters being rounded out with Magneto at #2) - and would make a pretty kick ass team in X-Men Legends - but I don't think he was mishandled.

If I were making an X-Men film - or trilogy, however, Colossus would definitely get a lot more focus. I love how Singer handled the X-Men, and how Ratner continued it, but I definitely would have focused on some different things if I were in charge. A larger role for Colossus would be one of those.

I agree with everything you said, its just that I personally felt that they could have done more with what little time he had on screen. There were times where the x men all gave there hooray lets go get em speeches and Pete just stood there like he was mute or something. It's reasonable not to get him a huge role, but for the love of god couldn't he have gotten a word in here or there?

 

[ToriL90]

I agree with Angamb that a couple changed lines would have made a difference; but I disagree with the notion that he was grossly underused. There wasn't much space for him in the trilogy - other stories were more important. His role in X2 was perfect-sized, IMO; and his X3 role was just a little small.

Just because I don't have any major complaints with his use in the trilogy, however, doesn't mean I don't think his role should be bigger in X4. I'm giving him some pretty significant development in my script, actually. Mainly, I'm introducing Illyana and developing him through her; but I'm also going into his Russian roots a little and making his first name "Poitr" (He's been called Pete since his family immigrated when he was little).

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Has it really been confirmed that his parents immigrated with him as a child? Because its very plausible that in movie verse, he was just born American.

 

[ToriL90]

Has it really been confirmed that his parents immigrated with him as a child? Because its very plausible that in movie verse, he was just born American.

It hasn't been addressed either way in the movie world. I came up with that on my own as a way to reconcile the no-accent movie version and the Russian-born comic version

 

[La_She-Beast]

Agreed that his role could have been a bit better and bigger. The issue was giving him a few more lines in the scenes he was:

- like the danger room, just one line, at least, would have been nice, to see that he is a person too, not just a mutant with a nice power. Something like "be careful, Rogue" would have been great.

-Then, the team scene after Xavier's death. I never understod why he wasn't there, if he is an x-men already. In the novel, the line of Bobby was his. something like "some of us don't have where to go". just with that, we can see he has an opinion too, and that can make other take decision, like Storm in this case, deciding to let the school open.

-The "tv scene". His line was a bad one, because to me, it seemed that he don't care about Rogue leaving the school, knowing there is a cure out there, and seeing Bobby worried for her. He should have said other thing, more carefully and worried too about Rogue. something like "Bobby.... one of the kids saw her leaving... do you think she..." (don't know, I think you understand my idea)

-And the other team scene before the battle. He should have showed an opinion too, saying something like "you need help, Logan, and you know what I can do"

Some minor dialogues which woulda enriched the film, as always.


You know, I really was hoping something from him in the whole plot (surprise surprise!) One of his sisters/brothers which wanted the cure, or that Majik's body is uncapable to maintain her mutation and needed it...


Btw please change that drawing X-Maniac Cassaday's art is not the best to post, definetely

 

[MoPlaYa]

My complaints come with Colossus in X3...I love the way he was used in X2, left us Colossus fans wanting more and what we got in X3 wasnt all it was hyped up to be. We knew Colossus would never be a main character but hoped he got his time to shine.