X-Men - Part 6

[Mike Murdock]

I'm not talking about time travel outside of Marvel. I'm talking strictly within the Marvel Universe. Divergents and creating alternate timelines is how Marvel's always handled time travel. To go back on that now for the sake of making a story work is slopping, weak, and just bad storytelling.

Look at the Uncanny Inhumans story that just ended, I don't think that was the way it worked. Look at Hickman's Avengers story with the Time Gem. It certainly didn't look like a divergent timeline there either. The closest I could tell, it was a predestination paradox instead.

 

[Sithborg]

deadpool is a horesmen? bleh......

Saw the images. Boring designs, too.

 

[Mad Ones]

So the new Horsemen look to be [BLACKOUT]Colossus, Deadpool, Moonknight and Venom.
[/BLACKOUT]

ew...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Saw the images. Boring designs, too.

god they are terribly boring

 

[JewishHobbit]

[blackout]They're the horsemen of a "future timeline"... and therefore not real horsemen to me. Same as the ones we saw in Bendis' Avengers.[/blackout]

 

[spideyboy_1111]

the dead horsemen.. with Banshee looked way cooler than any of these.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Yeah, I much prefer the Twins' Horsemen to these.

 

[BoredGuy]

I still think UXF's "Final Horsemen" were the best
but the "4 deaths" from Uncanny Avengers were at least scary as hell

these ones? yeah, pretty tame character designs
and Man-Thing is in the preview for the next issue?? Is he an alternate or something..?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Man. X-Books are in a bad place these days.

 

[Havok83]

Man. X-Books are in a bad place these days.

with a few exceptions, Ive felt this way for the better part of the last decade

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yep. Pretty much ever since Morrison's run for me (with a few exceptions).

 

[BoredGuy]

Idk

Whedon's Astonishing
Messiah Complex
Remender's UXF
Age of X
Schism
WaTXM's first year

I think there's been some decent runs over the past decade
maybe not the highs of the 80's and 90's where X-Men was practically the only comic that was any good
but still

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I was excited for Extraordinary but Kurt's not himself, I'm kinda over Old Man Logan already(he clearly doesn't get how alternate timelines work), I'm still mad about the school being in Limbo in the first place(+2 Inhumans resentment), and now we have an arc with the X-Men's most 1-Dimensional villain Apocalypse.

All-New reads like a CW show for tweens and Uncanny killed [blackout]Elixir[/blackout] in the first arc but Triage gets to live? Unforgivable.

 

[slicer4444]

Uncanny killed [blackout]Elixir[/blackout] in the first arc but Triage gets to live? Unforgivable.

I'm still livid about that one.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Idk

Whedon's Astonishing
Messiah Complex
Remender's UXF
Age of X
Schism
WaTXM's first year

I think there's been some decent runs over the past decade
maybe not the highs of the 80's and 90's where X-Men was practically the only comic that was any good
but still

Schism was horrifying and horribly done, and I struggled to really get into WatXM due to the premise of the Schism plot splitting up the X-Men. Beast vs Sabretooth was awesome though.

Astonishing was good and Uncanny X-Force was great. Messiah Complex was decent.

 

[Mad Ones]

I agree that there have been some great moments in the last decade, BoredGuy's list is very solid. I'd add Gillen's Uncanny X-men as well.

Today, Lemire has some nice ideas in Extraordinary but they are horribly executed. And Ramos doesn't help. It's such a shame considering the character line up.

Uncanny is very solid.

ANXM gets a lot of flack because the O5 in the present aren't a popular thing amongst online fans, but I actually think the writing is pretty decent.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I actually didn't mind house of M and Decimation either.. some stuff was interesting..

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The 198 and apocalypse's story around that time though, not so much

 

[JewishHobbit]

ANXM gets a lot of flack because they O5 in the present aren't a popular thing amongst online fans, but I actually think the writing is pretty decent.

I'm actually surprised by how decent that title is. It's hard for me to really get into it due to the O5, but I find myself really enjoying it as I read it. I'd still prefer the title get canceled and the O5 go away... but at least Humphries is doing a good job with them while they're here. Bagely's art is a big help as well. I've always liked his work since I started buying comics during his run on Amazing Spider-Man in the early 90s.

 

[BoredGuy]

Schism was horrifying and horribly done, and I struggled to really get into WatXM due to the premise of the Schism plot splitting up the X-Men. Beast vs Sabretooth was awesome though.

Astonishing was good and Uncanny X-Force was great. Messiah Complex was decent.

Schism was executed poorly, in that it turned into Cyclops and Wolverine fighting about who Jean loved more
but the idea of the division on how to train the kids, and the possibility that that opened up afterwards with the separate teams was good and full of potential

and I still think Messiah Complex was the best crossover/event/whatever Marvel has produced since at least House of M, probably since AoA (outside of AvX, all the best events heavily feature the X-Men)

 

[Mad Ones]

The first comics I read were Morrison's New X-men in trades. But I started reading X-men monthlies during Messiah Complex. It was a great premise with the weight of years of stories behind it. The gravity felt earned, which I think is why the X-books are suffering right now. They're in a similar situation but everything has happened off panel.

I liked Second Coming as well. Honestly, it's too bad that Hope was a flop. Sometimes I think that they should have just made Hope Jean. But then you get into the weird creepiness of basically making Jean Cyclops' adoptive granddaughter LOL

I'm actually surprised by how decent that title is. It's hard for me to really get into it due to the O5, but I find myself really enjoying it as I read it. I'd still prefer the title get canceled and the O5 go away... but at least Humphries is doing a good job with them while they're here. Bagely's art is a big help as well. I've always liked his work since I started buying comics during his run on Amazing Spider-Man in the early 90s.

I don't mind the O5 being here so I don't have a bias, but Hopeless writes some poignant character beats. I'm happy someone is doing some thing with Idie and Evan too.

I was pretty annoyed in Extraordinary X-men [BLACKOUT]that Anole and Martha got new bodies basically off screen without any character development. I hate status quo changes to characters when we don't get to see the psychology behind that change.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[JewishHobbit]

The first comics I read were Morrison's New X-men in trades. But I started reading X-men monthlies during Messiah Complex. It was a great premise with the weight of years of stories behind it. The gravity felt earned, which I think is why the X-books are suffering right now. They're in a similar situation but everything has happened off panel.

I think that's why I struggle with X-Men now. From when Claremont started writing with Giant-Size X-Men, everything led to the next so there was always this strong sense of history and building. That started to fall apart about the time Morrison's New X-Men was being written because there were two other X-Men books (Uncanny and X-Treme), and they were all ignoring the rest. And then after that more X-Men books came out that were ignoring what the others were doing, including characters that shared in the books. Then before long we had whole X-Men titles that play out and are canceled and never referenced again. That sense of history stopped mattering. Now we hit the point where crap happens off panel... major stuff... and it's just breezed by.

I mean, Northstar's wedding should probably have been a big deal, but outside of Astonishing, it was nothing. Elixer's recent death should have really meant something akin to Doug Ramsey's death in New Mutants, but it was a one-issue-plot point. Nate Grey's return should have been major being that he was eventually accepted as Scott and Jean's son, but it was barely a plot in a random mini and an already forgotten New Mutants title.

Too many characters... too many titles... too many writers... too fast a turn around. Other than whatever is the current "main" title... nothing else really matters.

I was pretty annoyed in Extraordinary X-men [BLACKOUT]that Anole and Martha got new bodies basically off screen without any character development. I hate status quo changes to characters when we don't get to see the psychology behind that change.[/BLACKOUT]

Yeah... that irritated me too. When [blackout]Anole first lost his arm[/blackout] that was dealt with and it made it special. This was just lazy writing from an otherwise great writer.

 

[Havok83]

I think that's why I struggle with X-Men now. From when Claremont started writing with Giant-Size X-Men, everything led to the next so there was always this strong sense of history and building. That started to fall apart about the time Morrison's New X-Men was being written because there were two other X-Men books (Uncanny and X-Treme), and they were all ignoring the rest. And then after that more X-Men books came out that were ignoring what the others were doing, including characters that shared in the books. Then before long we had whole X-Men titles that play out and are canceled and never referenced again. That sense of history stopped mattering. Now we hit the point where crap happens off panel... major stuff... and it's just breezed by..

were they though? I felt there was a good amount of crossover between Uncanny, Xtreme and New X-men around that time. They each had their own distinct mission statement but each of the writers used the characters of the other books and referenced stuff that happened. I dont feel the ignoring really came into play until Whedon came aboard with Astonishing. Him being late pretty much forced the other books to ignore what he did and since he was on his own timescale, he couldnt sync up his stuff with theirs. Things got real out of hand when Marvel allowed the X-books to have overlapping casts instead of distinct rosters like in the 90s

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm actually surprised by how decent that title is. It's hard for me to really get into it due to the O5, but I find myself really enjoying it as I read it. I'd still prefer the title get canceled and the O5 go away... but at least Humphries is doing a good job with them while they're here. Bagely's art is a big help as well. I've always liked his work since I started buying comics during his run on Amazing Spider-Man in the early 90s.

There's only so much of Laura and Warren's relationship drama I can take. It was nice seeing Blob again I guess.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

The first comics I read were Morrison's New X-men in trades. But I started reading X-men monthlies during Messiah Complex. It was a great premise with the weight of years of stories behind it. The gravity felt earned, which I think is why the X-books are suffering right now. They're in a similar situation but everything has happened off panel.

I loved Morrisons run but after he left Marvel seemed to go out of their way to undo what he had done, at the expense of any logic or good storytelling. That said, there were definately a lot of good ideas floating around in the lead up to Messiah Complex, and it always still felt like the X-Men. Whedon's run was mostly great and I even enjoyed Careys run a lot at the time too.

It was after Messiah Complex that I think it really started to just lose the plot. Kyle and Yosts X-Force was a great homage to 90s X-Men comics but brought in a lot of the ethical problems that have plagued the X-Men since.

It was as soon as they moved out of NY the downward-spiral of problems really started though and the new mentality of the X-Men kicked in. I blame Fraction and Bendis entirely for making the comics the mess they're in today.