The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge

[shauner111]

Since the mods like to delete the pro-Nolan posts over in the other thread, while the insults can stay. Ill post my response here to Psycho Sith.

A. I love the graphic novel TDKR, but retiring from age versus someone dying is different IMO. He didn't retire when Jason died, so the argument is invalid when using it to justify TDK.
B. It's all just opinion
C. Obviously I've watched every single Batman movie ever was made
D. Again, it's just opinions
E. Admittedly, I'm marginalizing certain scenes because it's my opinion they were superfulous and bad. Haha
F. Again...opinions

G. I believe, and it's an OPINION, Affleck is gonna rule all the other Batmen to date anyway, so it's all water under the bridge (or so I hope thus far).

You obviously don't pay attention, because Batman did NOT retire because of Rachel (if her death is what you're referencing). Another person who thinks Batman retired for her. It had nothing to do with Rachel Dawes whatsoever.

Unreal.

Yes, it's just opinion. If one doesn't like it, i dont care anymore, my life is not affected. It means nothing to me. But if you say things like Alfred just left because of some dumb disagreement over a note...if that's the entire spectrum...then you missed the point of why he left, and the scene. Therefore it's no longer just some opinion of "i hated that", it's that you didnt really get what he was saying. He left because he wanted to teach Bruce a lesson, which would hopefully save his life and not go out after Bane. Much more than the letter.

 

[The Joker]

What thread is this from?

 

[shauner111]

And of course im so annoyed with the mods, that i post in the wrong thread hahahaha. But what the heck, we'll do it in here. It's just one response. Then we'll get back to the movie talk.

 

[Psycho_Sith]

Since the mods like to delete the pro-Nolan posts over in the other thread, while the insults can stay. Ill post my response here to Psycho Sith.

You obviously don't pay attention, because Batman did NOT retire because of Rachel (if her death is what you're referencing). Another person who thinks Batman retired for her. It had nothing to do with Rachel Dawes whatsoever.

Unreal.

Yes, it's just opinion. If one doesn't like it, i dont care anymore, my life is not affected. It means nothing to me. But if you say things like Alfred just left because of some dumb disagreement over a note...if that's the entire spectrum...then you missed the point of why he left, and the scene. Therefore it's no longer just some opinion of "i hated that", it's that you didnt really get what he was saying. He left because he wanted to teach Bruce a lesson, which would hopefully save his life and not go out after Bane. Much more than the letter.

I'm not making it my mission in life to "insult" the Nolan movies, those were opinions.

I hope you didn't bring this conversation over here to frickin bicker about opinions.

So why, in your opinion, did Bruce retire then?
From the narrative I saw in TDKR, he retired for the two-fold reason(s) of Rachel's death and that whole "I killed those people and now I'm hunted" thing.
But...he only moped half the movie about rachel being dead, not over Dent's fall or his murder spree.

 

[The Joker]

Gordon: "We were in this together and then you were gone"
Bruce: "The Batman wasn't needed anymore. We won"
Gordon: "Based on a lie"

Blake to Gordon: "When you and Dent cleaned up the streets you cleaned 'em good. Pretty soon we'll be collecting overdue library books"

Bruce retired because Harvey Dent's legacy cleaned up Gotham so well that Batman wasn't needed any more. It had nothing to do with Rachel's death. If it was all about Rachel's death he wouldn't have gone after the Joker after she died in TDK.

 

[shauner111]

I know you're not, others are in there, and it's irritating. It's like a new trend. Let's love the shiny new thing (which is fine) but let's put down everything in the previous universe like it's dog ****.

It's not my opinion on how Bruce retired LOL. It's fact. He didn't retire for Rachel. If you think that, you weren't paying attention. Whether he chose to dwell on Rachel or his parents during the time he was gone or not, is irrelevant to WHY he retired. Which had nothing to do with her. He retired to preserve Harvey's name, because the Dent Act happened and he wanted to be seen as the villain, instead of being out there helping the police take down criminals which is heroic. The streets didn't need Batman, whether some of us hated that idea or not again is irrelevant to the why's and how's. It had nothing to do with Rachel. Her and Harvey died so of course he's going to think about them while he's away. He's a brooding person.

And thank you Joker, spot-on.

But...he only moped half the movie about rachel being dead, not over Dent's fall or his murder spree

Naturally. He was close with her, not with the others.

 

[shauner111]

You also said in another thread today, that..

The end of TDK, the Holy Grail of CMB's and Batman movies, is a sloppy, disjointed mess that completely wastes the entire narrative of the film.

I won't break my one rule. I won't kill. I won't take a life.

...football checks Dent/Two-face right off a four-story building...and KILLS him.
That after we see him do all sorts of non-lethal, kick-ass stuff to stop several SWAT teams in the Pruitt Building fight...but he just then checks Dent off the building.

What was the damn point then?? Why not just snap Joker's neck?

Hey Joker, you wanna take this one?

 

[Psycho_Sith]

I know you're not, others are in there, and it's irritating. It's like a new trend. Let's love the shiny new thing (which is fine) but let's put down everything in the previous universe like it's dog ****

First, I respect where you're coming from. Second, Noaln's trilogy will always have a special place with me; his were the best so far, IMO, and the Tumbler - well, you can see all the threads where I praise that Batmobile up and down all day.

I just don't care for TDKR as much as I do BB...and I see writing flaws in the last few minutes of TDK; not a big deal.

And yeah, of course I caught Blake's whole 'overdue library books' dig on the roof about crime being low, Dent Act, all that jive. I also admit I have trepidation about BvS and JL...mostly because they're unknowns at this point, but I do not give them the 'shiny penny' treatment.

 

[shauner111]

But obviously you didn't catch it that well if you still think he retired for Rachel in any way, shape or form.

 

[Psycho_Sith]

Are you guys that bored in the TDKR threads that you just wanna share your opinions to the point to sway mine? Cause that's not happening.

Again, I respect how you guys feel about TDKR and how you view the narratives of TDK/TDKR, but I don't share 'em.

And just don't even try to crack that nut of my opinion of the 'Two-Face building check' scene, cause you won't. That is most adamant gripe with that film and I am upfront, admittedly unwaivering on it.

 

[shauner111]

This really belongs in the TDKR discussion thread, but like i said, i put it in here by accident. It's what we do, we discuss the film. Me and Joker have battled quite a bit on Rises incase you didnt know. But facts are facts and that's why i brought it here. They didnt let me respond in the other movie thread.

I respect your opinions, but we're saying the Rachel part is not an opinion it's just false.

Im not trying to crack that nut, that's why i gave it to Joker. But i know what i would say. Something about how he didn't kill Harvey with the intent of murder. He didn't even try to kill him. He was defending a childs life.

BTW this isn't going to carry on forever. Just a bit longer then us folks will get back to discussing movies or whatever we were doing in this thread.

 

[BatLobster]

It's not really about swaying you personally...it's just weird to me that it seems to be okay to take constant shots at the Nolan movies in there to a chorus of "Yeah! Those movies sucked!!! Hail teh Batfleck!"... but the moment you address one of them or make a counterpoint it's rocking the boat too much and crossing the line. Seems like a bit of a double standard and it's quite discouraging.

I mean, I feel bad cause that forum is a mess as it is with people constantly debating Man of Steel so I understand not wanting it to turn into place where every and any debate can happen. But some people are pretty vicious in there, and on top of that there's a lot of insecurity swirling around too. People get very touchy when you so much as question the Batfleck and/or Snyder. ("But...but TERRIO!!!") There are some good people there who try to keep things on track so I don't want to paint with too wide a brush, but overall the behavior in there tends to very feels very childish to me...it feels more like the Spidey boards than what the Bat-boards once were in their prime.

And yeah, Batman retiring because of Rachel is a straight up falsehood and it's been debunked with direct examples from the movie over and over again. I suppose you think he was a recluse for 8 years too?

 

[Kane52630]

Hopefully I can beat my last year's record of 150 films.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29721211&postcount=401

 

[Snow Queen]

Yeah shauner...it's definitely a movie that stays with you after you see it.

So...the new Batmobile. I think it's pretty cool. More or less what I was expecting.

No way in hell do would I buy Batman being just an "urban myth" back in his prime when he was driving that gigantic thing around though, lmao.

I think it's pretty good, but I hate that turret on it. Same thing goes for the Arkham Knight Batmobile for me, though I like the BvS one more. I just don't like the Batmobile having gun turrets.

 

[shauner111]

I think it's a little too much. Overboard. I like the sleeker tumbler part of it, but i think the gadgets and weapons on the front is a little too busy. But ill get used to it.

 

[Kane52630]

off topic but...
Hype Deathmatch is back!

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=486435

 

[starwolf_oakley]

I've wondered if TDKR needed to end with more of an "And the adventure continues" note, without too much sequel bait. Bruce wouldn't have given John Blake the Batman equipment if he didn't think Batman would be needed at some point. Maybe we see a sign like "Future Site of the Iceberg Lounge" or something like that.

 

[JackWhite]

I've wondered if TDKR needed to end with more of an "And the adventure continues" note, without too much sequel bait. Bruce wouldn't have given John Blake the Batman equipment if he didn't think Batman would be needed at some point. Maybe we see a sign like "Future Site of the Iceberg Lounge" or something like that.

It kinda does - Blake in the cave as the curtains close? That definitely gives the film a feeling of "the story goes on within the universe".

 

[BatLobster]

So..GOTHAM premieres tonight. I honestly haven't been able to conjure up too much interest, but if any of the TDKR board regulars watch it I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[shauner111]

Im on another forum right now, and a dude is giving me a bit of an update. Because i can't see it until later tonight. He says the supposed "brutal death scene of the Waynes" is too quick in the show (like a minute in) so it doesnt have much effect. They borrow some lines straight out of Begins, yes it's bloody but then Bruce screams like a little girl out of nowhere lol. He says sure he's supposed to be in shock but it was out of nowhere. Hmm, maybe i have to see it to believe it.

Says that the villain nods are extremely forced and so far the only good thing he can say is that the look, cinematography is really good.

Last Update (before i just go ahead and watch it myself): "Gordon and Bullock so far have been really good and the show itself, though borrowed from other shows, looks like it has strong potential (if they get rid of the forced villain stuff)"

 

[JackWhite]

Pretty much agreed with what that guy said. Thomas Wayne did the whole extremely calm thing before being gunned down like in BB. Bruce's scream is a little awkward, lol. It was a treat seeing Bullock in live action finally. The dynamic between him and Gordon was very good.

Overall I liked it. I'm looking forward to next weeks episode.

 

[shauner111]

OK im done. Here's my thoughts, spoilers included..

I haved mixed feelings. Ill keep watching since im curious and a couple of characters have potential. Plus it's Batman related, in live-action, so i just have to keep watching.

But i thought some of the acting and dialogue was hammy. Some scenes were trying to be too "hip". The intro was bad. Rushed and poorly acted. Bruce's scream was dumb. But then it gets better because Gordon/Bullock are introduced..

I like how Bullock, Montoya and Allen are present. It's good to see a couple of these characters finally. They're fine. I dont really care about Bullock, but that's not an issue. He's always been a character that's somewhere in the middle. Gordon is fine and so is Cobblepot (they're the reasons ill continue).

The little Riddler cameo was pointless, same with little Poison Ivy. Why is Selina everywhere in the right place? I really can't stand these villain nods. It's totally forced and this show would be so much better without them. I have zero interest in this Nygma and why the hell did they change Pamela Isley's name to something goofier like "Ivy Pepper". If you're going to change something from the mythos, change it to make it more believable, not the other way around.

Jada Pinkett Smith as Fish Mooney was fine. A bit hammy in places but it didn't bother me. She won't last past this season, and honestly the mob is the thing this show should be centered around anyway. Carmine Falcone makes an appearance and that was alright as well. I heard Batista from Dexter will appear as Maroni soon, so the gangsters are looking to be the brighter part of this series.

Penguin has the potential to be the demented, but hilarious pain in the ass of the show. I liked the guys acting. We basically got his origin story here.

Barbara was very plain, meh.

Alfred is an A-Hole here. He's a bit of a hardass in the few scenes he's in. It's not my Alfred that's for sure. I felt zero sympathy from him towards Bruce. More like he was more worried about their public image. Telling Bruce, who is in shock at the crime scene, to basically walk away with his head held up so they don't see him crying. I wish Michael Caine was there to kick this Alfreds ass and give this kid a damn hug!

The head of this show once said that the kid who plays Bruce is the best actor to play this character, adult or child. That's ridiculous. He's fine. I have no complaints, but he's nothing special. That intro wasn't his fault though.

Gotham's look is good. The music they chose was out of place but i do like the visual of this city. Nothing mind blowing but it served its purpose. But damnit, did Burton sneak in or something?? Because this pilot ends with two characters: Selina Kyle looking down on something and has Penguin looking a little bit freaky while coming out of water!!

 

[JackWhite]

I agree there were a few hammy moments, and Selina prowling about was eye rolling worthy, but I expected a lot of superfluous character nods. Like Ridder, he didn't need to be there other than "Hey, guess who this guy is?", but on a positive note I really liked how the actor played Nygma. I'm honestly expecting all the villains to be played up as much as possible without it being too much too soon. It's a Batman show without Batman, you need something to work with.

Best thing I could have done was keep my expectations low and just focus on the good. I'm hoping everything else is more fleshed out in the next episode and not so rushed.

Edit: Just re-read your part on Alfred, Shauner. Yeah, after seeing how this Alfred is written I didn't expect a "It was him and him alone" moment from this version of the character, lol.

 

[shauner111]

My expectations were very low and i was surprised that i enjoyed the atmosphere, Cobblepot and Gordon. I walked away with something and that's a good thing even if i thought it was just an alright episode. They can screw the rest up or get better. It could go either way obviously. I think they'll do both. Diving into the younger villains, besides Penguin (due to his mob ties) is a bad thing. It's fan service which some fans will enjoy but i think it's a little distracting. I don't care about a 13 year old Selina Kyle if she's just being a thief. I don't think she should have seen Bruce's parents get murdered.

Stick to the GCPD and the mob.

Haha JackWhite. I dont like seeing Alfred as this hard ass guy while Bruce is a little kid like that. If Irons does it it will be fine cuz it's Jeremy Friggin Irons and it will be played for laughs since Bruce is like 45 in that.

 

[Snow Queen]

I liked it a lot more than I expected to for a pilot. It's got some issues, some of which I had forgotten due to an interruption in the middle of the episode and just remembered when reading this thread, but as far as pilots go I thought it was good. I don't like this take on Alfred. Barbara's actress was pretty bad. A bit too much cheesiness in places. It had some awkward editing. Some bad deliveries in there, as is expected. I didn't like Gordon's speech to Bruce. Bruce's actor, as Shauner said, is fine. Nowhere near the best actor to play the character, I don't know why someone would hype the kid up like that. I really liked Bullock and the look of it all and that they didn't leave out that Renee's gay like I expected them to. Ben Mckenzie was decent. Overall, I can see why I kept reading about it being one of the shows that has the most potential and I do think there is a lot there and I'm sure some of the kinks will be worked out soon like most shows after their pilot.

As far as the name change with Ivy, Shauner, I have a feeling it's just for the casual viewers who would sooner recognize her as young Poison Ivy if she had Ivy in her name. I didn't like it either.