The Dark Knight Rises Young Ra's Al Ghul - Does it mean flashback, or something else?

[TheBatman072]

People have survived worse.
Im talking real life here, people have fallen out of planes and the parachute hasnt opened and they didnt die.
Him surviving wouldnt go out of Nolans realistic image I dont think.

there was no indication of Ra's leaving the train before it fell. He closed his eyes, and accepted his fate.

The train exploded.

He died.

 

[Bane.]

Well time will tell

 

[batbax]

I love how in the other thread the batpod flip is considered unrealistic. But ra's crashing and burning in a train? Nah, he could survive that ****.

 

[Bane.]

Its a film.
Enough said.

 

[Cats]

There was no mention of Ra's at all after the train crash.

He died.

No mention of Ra's also might mean his body was never found. People presume there will be nothing left to find due to the extensiveness of the wreckage, thus he would then be declared dead. But wasn't Bruce himself declared dead, only to return and reclaim his empire? Ra's had plenty of time to jump out of the train before and while it was falling, not to mention during the time it was skidding to a stop. Sure, he might break a leg, or a couple of ribs by doing that, but he'd be alive. Question it seems here, is would he? Or rather, why wouldn't he? It isn't the end of the world to be outsmarted by a worthy adversary.

Where was he in TDK?

That's where the realism part comes in. He returned to India for healing. I kind of doubt Nolan will use the Lazarus pit for restoring life to a corpse, but it is within reason that the Lazarus pit provides healing capabilities, the same capabilities Bruce would travel to India for. And while likely healing is sped up, it will not be instant - like the way dead sea salt is scientifically proven to heal over time, but in this case, in a more massive scale.

 

[beeftannen]

hey there...just watched batman begins today. the reason why were gona see a young ras is cuz...

please think about it.

ras is bruce true father.

the scene after wayne falls into cold water during training. how the hell does ras know bruce father? and he talks about a whife he use to have....
in a third movie the first thing you need to do is to destroy something that everybody thought was true since the first movie. BINGO.

why the hell would ras wanna destroy gotham....cuz his lover (bruce mother) got killed there.
why would he come to pik up wayne from prison? cuz its his son.

think just a second how that would destroy bruce/batman..."the man who was kiled in front of you wasnt your father. you killed your real father"

 

[TheBatman072]

No mention of Ra's also might mean his body was never found. People presume there will be nothing left to find due to the extensiveness of the wreckage, thus he would then be declared dead. But wasn't Bruce himself declared dead, only to return and reclaim his empire? Ra's had plenty of time to jump out of the train before and while it was falling, not to mention during the time it was skidding to a stop. Sure, he might break a leg, or a couple of ribs by doing that, but he'd be alive. Question it seems here, is would he? Or rather, why wouldn't he? It isn't the end of the world to be outsmarted by a worthy adversary.

So we saw him close his eyes, and then the very next second the train crashed and exploded but...he really closed his eyes, opened them again, raced to a window or the giant hole in the back(no, because we would have seen that as Batman was flying out), and then jumped out almost 3 stories high onto the ground or a car.

...

He's dead.

 

[TheBatman072]

hey there...just watched batman begins today. the reason why were gona see a young ras is cuz...

please think about it.

ras is bruce true father.

the scene after wayne falls into cold water during training. how the hell does ras know bruce father? and he talks about a whife he use to have....
in a third movie the first thing you need to do is to destroy something that everybody thought was true since the first movie. BINGO.

why the hell would ras wanna destroy gotham....cuz his lover (bruce mother) got killed there.
why would he come to pik up wayne from prison? cuz its his son.

think just a second how that would destroy bruce/batman..."the man who was kiled in front of you wasnt your father. you killed your real father"

...Grant Morrison? Is that you?

 

[beeftannen]

what? im not saying im right...but seriously....think about it...i would explain a lot.

 

[DaveMoral]

what? im not saying im right...but seriously....think about it...i would explain a lot.

It would explain nkthing. Besides. Thomas Wayne was not only obscenely wealthy, but a philanthropist, and thus one of the most prominent Gothamites of his day. And his philanthropy directly confilcted with Ra's' plans for Gotham. Thomas is Bruce's father. Periid. I cant believe that would even need to be said.

 

[Cats]

So we saw him close his eyes, and then the very next second the train crashed and exploded but...he really closed his eyes, opened them again, raced to a window or the giant hole in the back(no, because we would have seen that as Batman was flying out), and then jumped out almost 3 stories high onto the ground or a car.

...

He's dead.

You're reading too much into the eye-closing thing lol. For all we know, that was just for show to fool Bruce into thinking that he was giving up, and not intending to escape. Ra's has demonstrated his aptitude in trickery and deception. And leaping out of that train wouldn't have been too much of a stretch for him, after all he is a trained master in numerous arts. Like I said, if Bruce got out, then there's a high chance he did as well.

 

[batbax]

Fool Bruce?? Bruce had already gotten off the train. Omg some of you are really really reaching here. He literally had 2 seconds after batman got off to get himself off the damn train. He spent it with his eyes closed.. Must have willed himself off the train through his supernatural powers.

He's dead.

 

[Figs]

hey there...just watched batman begins today. the reason why were gona see a young ras is cuz...

please think about it.

ras is bruce true father.

the scene after wayne falls into cold water during training. how the hell does ras know bruce father? and he talks about a whife he use to have....
in a third movie the first thing you need to do is to destroy something that everybody thought was true since the first movie. BINGO.

why the hell would ras wanna destroy gotham....cuz his lover (bruce mother) got killed there.
why would he come to pik up wayne from prison? cuz its his son.

think just a second how that would destroy bruce/batman..."the man who was kiled in front of you wasnt your father. you killed your real father"

[YT]xlA9bNk3b5Q[/YT]

 

[The Joker]

...Grant Morrison? Is that you?

Seriously Ra's as Bruce's father would be a horrible idea.

 

[TheBatman072]

You're reading too much into the eye-closing thing lol. For all we know, that was just for show to fool Bruce into thinking that he was giving up, and not intending to escape. Ra's has demonstrated his aptitude in trickery and deception. And leaping out of that train wouldn't have been too much of a stretch for him, after all he is a trained master in numerous arts. Like I said, if Bruce got out, then there's a high chance he did as well.

...Bruce was already off the train by that time...

You WATCHED the movie right?

Seriously Ra's as Bruce's father would be a horrible idea.

Yep. Not to mention horribly, terribly unlikely.

 

[Cats]

...Bruce was already off the train by that time...

You WATCHED the movie right?

It was about 3 years since I last watched BB, I remembered it as him shutting his eyes while Bruce went out the back. But I went back to that scene and noticed that I'd remembered it wrong, that he was facing forwards. Yet still, it didn't look like resignation to me, and it was definitely more than 2 seconds, more than enough time to escape. To add to that, a broken window not more than an arm's length away, courtesy of Batman.

To each his own I guess. Let's not be alarmed or dismayed if Liam's return in TDKR does mean he survived the train wreck. Honestly I don't feel it would ruin the movie, whether or not Ra's is truly alive or dead. People tend to overreact to speculations, but when they actually see the movie in its entirety, they have no reservations in giving it standing ovations. I'm certain it will be no different with TDKR.

 

[J. Custer]

All that talk about Ra's being Bruces real father is such a departure from the source material it would be turning Batman and to an entirely different character. Ra's is not his father, Thomas Wayne is; believe it or not that is very important to the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman. Ra's is dead....arguably a misstep on Nolans part but it is what it is.....


unless he was cloned or did some ancient body transferance trick

 

[Just_Human]

Pence and that little girl: talia flashback

Liam Neeson (if confirmed) and Bale : flashback from Bruce's training - moments that weren't shown in BB

 

[KRIM]

Fair enough. Ra's is a major, major character. Lets just pretend he is alive and coming back. How would he be included into this story? I mean, we have Bane, talia, catwoman, bruce, etc etc... Are we to believe that if he really is alive that he would not play an integral part in this story? Im kind of curious about your answer because you said itd be cool if he was back. Im not busting your balls at all Im just really fascinated. I honestly cant think of any way of him being alive without making things very very convoluted and messy.

Not my problem, not your problem. We're the audience, we're there to judge, not create. The story is from the minds of Chris/David/Jonah, so I don't why that burden should be on our shoulders. If a plumber told you he couldn't figure out a computer mishap on your network, would you take their word for it and give up? Of course not. You go straight to the source, either to the software maker themselves or a computer technician.

Forgetting the realism thing, this is another very blatant reason why I think hes not alive. But im open to ideas. besides the fact that this would obviously make Ra's immortal. Lets think about this. this would easily make him batmans most unbeatable and overwhelming enemy....Ra's WOULD win. Or am I totally missing something?

I must be, because I don't know what relevance that would have to the story. If an unbeatable force is a grave concern, Batman is not for you. His ethical code prevents him from ever truly beating the likes of Joker. They will keep on fighting back and returning, until a permanent solution is actually being handed out. A line that Bruce isn't willing to cross intentionally. Much second-hand blood is on Bruce's hands as a result of it.

Also, Bruce's most overwhelming enemy? Crime. He fights it every day. He devotes his entire life to opposing it. Will it ever stop? Never. Will it outlast Batman? Inevitably. Does that harsh truth deter Bruce? Not one bit. A crusade full of tribulations and tragedy that would break most people. I wouldn't even call it a battle as much as a war that you cannot possibly win in the long-term. And Bruce doesn't care. He feels obligated to go through with it anyway. It troubles him more that persons of his capabilities aren't doing their absolute best to combat crime, than it is to realize that in the overall scheme of things it might very well be all for naught. This is the backbone of the entire lore. As long as you can come to terms with that large hurdle in this fictional world, then the Batman universe is something worth devoting your time to.

 

[Pagan]

Pence and that little girl: talia flashback

Liam Neeson (if confirmed) and Bale : flashback from Bruce's training - moments that weren't shown in BB

Or Liam and Hardy. Have the film show Bane's backstory with the LoS.

 

[Bane.]

Or Liam and Hardy. Have the film show Bane's backstory with the LoS.

I like that.

 

[Fake Hero]

I hope they find a way to bring Ras back, just to spite all the Nolanites who keep screaming that the movies are based in reality.

Saying that Bruce's cell phone SONAR machine is as realistic as saying Star Trek is also based in reality. I mean, the technology exists to fly to space, so being able to fly to space and travel faster than light and meet aliens is based in reality too.

 

[the3121]

I have a point about the train scene which i have never heard raised before.

When Ra's finally meets batman he says 'You took my idea about theatricality a little too literally'. In this statement he is mocking Bruce - Ra's still see's himself as the teacher and Bruce the student.

Later when they have there final show down - batman tells Ra's that he won't kill him but doesn't need to save him either. Then we see him open his cape and glide to safety as Ra's goes down with the wreckage of the train.

I love this part as, to me, it shows that bruce had surpassed his master. He's 'theatricality' is justified. He wasn't just a 'man in a costume' as Ra's had earlier mocked during their fight. His cape is what allowed him to survive.

 

[batbax]

I hope they find a way to bring Ras back, just to spite all the Nolanites who keep screaming that the movies are based in reality.

Saying that Bruce's cell phone SONAR machine is as realistic as saying Star Trek is also based in reality. I mean, the technology exists to fly to space, so being able
to fly to space and travel faster than light and meet aliens is based in reality too.

Yeah, cuz coming back from the dead is totally more doable than a sonar device. Also the nolanite tagline is Just oh so cute an creative.

 

[The_Raganork]

Bruce hasn't surpassed Ra's. Ra's accepted his place in the world wholly and was not bothered by defeat or death. Bruce struggles to reconcile his life with Batman; Ra's has him still beaten.


Even to this point everything Ra's said about criminality has been ultimately true; Bruce has gone his way about it but has lost so much.

Ra's death was a total defeat for him. Look at his face right before his death. He's content, he accepts it. Very akin to Obi-Wan Kenobi's death in A New Hope.

Bruce has got to reach that level of confidence and understanding of his place in Gotham and the world to come to that level of Ra's.

I suspect (among other things) this will be Ra's place in the film; to show that parallel.