Justice League ZACK SNYDER’S JUSTICE LEAGUE - RATE & REVIEW THREAD (SPOILERS!!!)

[emc5466]

I can’t believe I’m about to type this but I thought this was amazing. I absolutely loved it. Superman is only in it for a quick bit but he’s used in a great way. His return is hard fought and emotional. Snyder moves the camera in some really unique ways that harkens back to Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings trilogy. It’s a visual feast and a visionary experience.

 

[The Infernal]

wtf? this 4 hour version would have never be realesed in theaters. WB wouldn't even allow a 3 hour cut. there are no 3 hour blockbuster movies for kids for a reason. this would make even less money IMO

While we wouldn't have got a 4 hour cut originally from Zack, I still think this is proof enough that he would of delivered a far more solid film than Whedon delivered. I don't see it bombing in that scenario, but you're welcome to believe what you want.

 

[elgaz]

I wish now that WB/Snyder had actually made it 5hrs with even more Superman and Darkseid content, and then released it as a 2 x 2.5hr two parter back to back back in 2017. If they weren't happy with a 3+hr runtime for a single movie.

 

[Longshot777]

All of Avengers movie was more than 2 hours.

While JL 2017 was only 1 hour and 48 minutes before end credits which is ridiculous. Of course it will be epic less.

WB sanctioned a 2 hour and 30 minutes for BVS theatrical release so it could have at least have done the same with Snyder JL.

Snyder could have done at least with that time on 2017.

Anyways, this movie is a 10 for me. The 2017 was just ok if there was no Avengers movie ....but since there was an Avengers movie then it was garbage.

But with this Snyder Cut ...it went from Avengers LIGHT B Team to “might be even better than the first Avengers movie” or at least an equal to it.

 

[Lantern Venom]

This was a solid effort. The first half dragged a little, and didn't seem to be that different from the theatrical version in terms of narrative. The 2nd half picked up and finished with a flourish. It didn't fix everything that it could have, but it made some key strides.

 

[idiot09]

I loved it. I cried 3 times(Clark home scene, during the Vic giving the woman money scene, and when Steppenwolf asks to come back to Apokolips). Its such a beautiful story, its epic, and every major character feels important to the story. Its a great Justice League movie, and a poignant continuation of BvS and MOS.

The story was mostly simple, you had the mother box plot with the incoming invasion, and you had Bruce trying his best to put together the team, and honor Superman’s memory. The dialogue was mostly great, sometimes okay and sometimes weird. I feel like it was a step-down from BvS, but a step up from MOS. The visuals were great, Wagner did a good job. Some shots were really beautiful, but its not as good as BvS or MOS overall I think. The VFX was really really good. All the CG characters, Cyborg, Darkseid, Steppenwolf…so well done. So much better than the theatrical cut. Only things that looked unpolished were the epilogue Knightmare/MM scene, i.e additional photography stuff. You can tell they ran out of budget/time for that.

The character development is where this movie shines, far more than MOS/BvS. Cyborg’s arc is amazing, and so emotional. Definitely my favourite character in the movie. In Man of Steel, Superman was the best character.In BvS, Batman was. Here Cyborg is. Just so well done, his 10min origin sequence is the best part of the movie imo. Flash’s intro was also so well done, it was so funny I laughed out loud. Lots of actual funny lines in this movie. Everything Alfred said is pure gold. The “man who broods in a cave for a living, might not be the best man for the job” and “would make you even more insufferable” are among my favourite lines in the movie. Also loved that teacup sequence, so in character. Really liked Alfred in this.

Diana was cool, and her action was nice, and she’s the moral compass of the team, also trying to open up to people. Aquaman was the weakest in the team in terms of character development I feel, but he had some good moments. I liked Bruce’s arc as well, him moving beyond logic and reason, and operating on faith, such a good arc continued from BvS. That line Bruce said to Alfred about “Faith Alfred, faith” gave me chills. Wanted one more badass action scene for him though, Zack did say he couldnt shoot his parademon cocoon scene. Superman didnt have much screentime, but what he had was great. I really liked the butterfly bit, very metaphorical. And the “not impressed” bit was soooooo badass. I liked how they handled everything with Superman, very well done. I just wanted more. Also wanted a scene between Bruce/Clark. Even the side characters like Hippolyta and the amazons, Silas and Dr Choi, Mera and Vulko, Lois and Martha, Alfred and Gordon, all well done. All the actors did a great job, standout being Ray Fisher, Joe Morton and Jeremy Irons.

Steppenwolf was very surprising for me. I expected him to be a ****ty villain. He was not, he was great. He sold the threat aspect, was badass in action, and had a surprisingly sad backstory. When he pleaded to come back home was a tearjerker for me, so unexpected. Darkseid was scary and badass. Lex’s character development was awesome, he seems far more steady now.

Deathstroke’s knightmare suit is amazing. The Epilogue after the suit rip felt like post credit scenes. MM scene was not good, would have preferred the og shot John Stewart GL scene. The knightmare scene had some awesome dialogue, and I loved the Batman/Joker scene, it was shot so well.

One thing I have to give this film is how good the editing/pacing is. The movie flies by. It feels like a 2.5hrs movie. There are maybe a couple of weird editing choices, but that’s nitpicking. Really well edited for a 4hr movie, it feels like a proper movie, not an extended cut. I really dont know what you would cut to make it shorter. You can cut scenes, but the movie would be lesser for it.

You can maybe remove a couple of scenes and trim some scenes a bit, but that’s it, maybe removed 10-15mins max. I also felt a couple of scenes could have gone on longer. I think you can make a 3hr cut, but it would not be as good. I think there’s a longer cut, and it was trimmed to make this cut tight. I think it feels like a really well done cut, it moves along really fast, but also takes its time when needed. Very good pacing. Here are a few lines that were cut which I would like to see as deleted scenes : “Superman was a beacon to the world”, “Each of us is in some way held back”, Barry names himself scene, Bruce/Alfred convo in front of the armoured suit(probably the original Robin reference).

Now to the things in the movie I didnt love as much as I expected it to. The score by JXL. Its good, its not bad. But its…not as good as Zimmer’s MOS or BvS score. Those were masterful. This is good. Crew at Warpower is really nice, I like the WW theme(a bit overused), and I like the new Bruce Wayne theme, and I loved the Cyborg theme. I liked all the MOS theme callbacks. That’s it. Rest was ehh. Disappointing ngl. This was not thematically as dense as BvS. And I wanted to see the world’s reaction more like MOS/BvS.

MOS made me feel awe. BvS made me feel heavy. This made me feel emotional. There were so many heartfelt moments, so many character stuff that was so well done. Action was good for the most part, but a lot was seen in the theatrical, except the final battle which was amazing. I was gripped the whole time, my mind racing thinking about what would happen next. Chapter 3(beloved mother, beloved son) was the best part of the movie for me. My first watch was overwhelming, second watch I loved it so much more.

MOS : 4.5/5
BvS : 5/5
JL : 4/5

 

[dhandler01]

I wish now that WB/Snyder had actually made it 5hrs with even more Superman and Darkseid content, and then released it as a 2 x 2.5hr two parter back to back back in 2017. If they weren't happy with a 3+hr runtime for a single movie.

There was never going to be more Superman except Knightmare Superman. A 5 hour cut would have had more Batfleck...

 

[B]

I'll preface this by saying this is coming from someone thought, what will now forever be known as the "Josstice League", was just an alright/mediocre movie. I didn't think it was a bad movie but I certainly didn't think it was a good movie. Which in & of itself, means it was a failure in my own eyes because this was supposed to be the first appearance of the Justice League on the big screen.

In fact I went as far as to go find my immediate thoughts on Josstice League after having seen it for the 1st time from the thread in the forums -

Spoiler

Went to see Justice League on Friday night. To sum up my thoughts, it was alright, was an enjoyable enough CBM.. which to an extent isn't good enough because this is a Justice League film, it should be filed in the section with classics & those CBM's that changed things like Superman The Movie, Batman 89, Spiderman 2, TDK, The Avengers 1 & you could even throw Deadpool into that list now IMO. Instead Justice League will be thrown in with the rest of the CBM's that are just 'alright', which to an extent is somewhat disappointing.

Most of the positives around the film come as a result of the cast of the Justice League & their interactions with one another, Ezra Miller & Jason Mamoa are standouts making me want to see more of them as Aquaman & Flash. Fisher & Gadot are fine, Affleck's not as good as he was in BvS, I'm not quite sure what it is but he just doesn't seem as decisive & sure of himself in JL.. which might have been his performance or it could have been by design after BvS.
I didn't think Steppenwolf was a particularly good villain. On paper I think he was a good choice because they'd some free creativity they could have used with him given that he's typically not a well known character or villain, they could have made him a lot more of a threat than what he seemed to be. Even if you had never heard of him or Darkseid before, you get the impression that he's a serviceable character that's a stepping stone. I also don't feel he is given enough screen time which contributes to his effectiveness to be a good villain.. heaven forbid we add another 10 or 15 minutes to the runtime to flesh out the villain or heroes, we wouldn't want to go past that 2 hour mark would we..

Some of the CGI was questionable as well, I didn't think Steppenwolf was a problem for me in most cases fully CGI characters don't tend to look odd until they talk. So for me I didn't think he looked any more fake than the likes of Hulk, Korg, Groot or Ultron from recent memory. The CG backrounds now, that is another thing altogether, some of the scenes that had reshoots & shots blended into their original scenes ie Aquaman & Flash's recruitment looked blatantly obvious, not only because Affleck's face got fuller from shot to shot but the backround just looked like a picture & nothing more. Then there's the infamous Super'stache. I'll be honest I only really noticed 3 scenes that his face looked really odd during the showing & it was the opening shot of the movie which was shown through the perspective of a phone camera I believe,
Some of the more blatant non-essential re-shot moments as well I didn't get, like the final moment in the Flash recruitment that's blatantly re-shot with both Barry & Bruce. He's talking about people being slow & Bruce says that he'll try to keep up.. why? Why was that re-shot & placed there? It didn't change the story & it wasn't funny. That scene could have ended with Barry asking Bruce could he keep the Batarang then cut to getting into the car.

I feel most of the downfalls & shortcomings of Justice League come as a result of the way that WB/DC/Snyder or whoever is the main people in charge have built towards Justice League. We've had more team up movies than solo character movies in the DCEU thus far which is just mind boggling. Ironically IMO the only ones that are actually good are the 2 solo movies, MoS & WW. This movie revolves around the idea of fixing things from BvS, now I will say I feel they succeeded in doing so but it shouldn't have been like that. This should have been about the Justice League coming together to defend Earth in the same way that The Avengers was about coming together to defend Earth & nothing more.

Combine that with the fact you've WB allegedly telling them that it had to be 2 hours or less, it's crazy. I'd be very interested to see how much footage was cut or changed in order to meet that time. I'd be very interested to see all the deleted scenes & a Snyder cut in general, apparently they changed something to the ending in a re-shoot to try & keep the story more self contained.

Overall as I said, I thought it was enjoyable enough despite the fact I've talked more about negatives for positives. I enjoyed Justice League more than I did Ragnarok, which I didn't think I'd be saying 6 months ago.

7/10

Now my opinion did change & become slightly worse over time, but that's what I initially thought. To somewhat quote, rather ironically I feel, Ray Fisher given how his character in Josstice League went from a throwaway, nothing role to front, centre & arguably one of the best things about ZS's Justice League, I'd like to forcefully retract any positives I tried to find from Josstice League.. particularly the 7/10 score which even by my own comic book biased standard, was too generous.

I'll try to keep this relatively short as I could spend the next hour writing out all my thoughts but Zack Snyder's Justice League is twice the film, figuratively in terms of quality & literally in terms of it's run time, it feels familiar yet completely different. Characters are actually fleshed out & in a rarity for these sorts of films, when someone say's "They all get their chance to shine", it's actually legitimately true in this cut of the film.

Flash & in particular Cyborg are by far the most significantly improved in terms of overall character development between the 2 cuts. Steppanwolf's improvements are significant, not only in his physical appearance but the changes in his backstory & the actual appearance of Darkseid himself helps actually make him seem more of a threat than he was in Josstice League.

Wonder Woman & Batman are improved purely by having better & more coherent scenes together, the same applies for Superman who actually seems like he's in the film less than Josstice League, however his resurrection is drawn out better, the scene in which they're all talking about it around the motherbox culminating in Cyborg projecting a hologram of Superman was a particularly good suspense builder.. not to mention he doesn't have a CGI lip.

All in all, it's a much, much better & more coherent film, not a Frankenstein mess. Why they decided to reshoot, change & alter so much of this the first time around is absolutely beyond me because I can't overstate this enough, there is nothing they added/changed that could even remotely be considered an improvement to any of the scenes that Snyder effectively shot & used in this cut. Nothing.

The film still has it's issues & while I don't think the cut propels the film into the "All-Time Great" CBM's of which I don't need to name as we all know who they are, it at the very least takes it into the "Very Good" CBM category which is where a film that features the full 1st appearance of the Justice League, should have been all along.

8.5/10

 

[matt47]

Just finished my second viewing and yeah I think I dislike more of score more than I like. Even the man of steel callbacks were lacking that unique sound from man of steel and those crazy instruments zimmer used.
I like many other now cannot stand that new wonder woman theme. It happens like seven too many times.
Batman's new theme is kinda meh and honestly sounds like something regnant would do if Whedon told him to not use his 89 theme.
And the electric rif for the league feels out of place

But boy did I love what played when flash enters the speedforce. Was epic and should've been Flash's theme for the previous epic moments.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Everything related to Superman/Clark’s story fell flat on its face for me. It’s just collateral damage from not having fleshed out the character plus continuing from the awful choice to have him killed in BvS. Snyder cut or not there is no remedy for that.

Agreed

 

[Arachnerd]

My review:

Shocker.

I'm... honestly shocked how non-impactful his entrance in the climax was.

 

[spideyfan77]

Just finished my second viewing and yeah I think I dislike more of score more than I like. Even the man of steel callbacks were lacking that unique sound from man of steel and those crazy instruments zimmer used.
I like many other now cannot stand that new wonder woman theme. It happens like seven too many times.
Batman's new theme is kinda meh and honestly sounds like something regnant would do if Whedon told him to not use his 89 theme.
And the electric rif for the league feels out of place

But boy did I love what played when flash enters the speedforce. Was epic and should've been Flash's theme for the previous epic moments.

I was hoping for the opposite. I am crossing my fingers that the 2nd viewing brings it up to the same level as bvs and mos. Right now the movie is in a tier below (even two). Hopefully watching it by itself and not right after bvs will help my viewing experience.

Music is a big thing for me. The action was cool but never felt epic like bvs or mos.

 

[blackdragon6]

Superman never worked cause WB never allowed the character to breath on his own (outside of MoS). And I'm skeptical of that reboot ever coming tbh. I personally just think it was announced to offset the Ray Fisher issue. But Cavil's Superman still has great potential imo since a lot of people seems to enjoy MoS more and more as time goes on.

 

[Arachnerd]

As sad as I am to say it, I think Cavill's time is done. WB obviously isn't interested in the slightest of developing a solo sequel with him, so this being his last outing is bittersweet and not in the best of ways.

 

[FatRobin]

Just finished my second viewing and yeah I think I dislike more of score more than I like. Even the man of steel callbacks were lacking that unique sound from man of steel and those crazy instruments zimmer used.
I like many other now cannot stand that new wonder woman theme. It happens like seven too many times.
Batman's new theme is kinda meh and honestly sounds like something regnant would do if Whedon told him to not use his 89 theme.
And the electric rif for the league feels out of place

But boy did I love what played when flash enters the speedforce. Was epic and should've been Flash's theme for the previous epic moments.

Elfman's theme for Flash was also pretty cool tbh. Here's hoping he'll get another dope theme for Flashpoint.

 

[Lone]

I swear the sudden influx of posters on here are just folks waiting for ZSJL just so they can replenish their ZS hatorade.

Where’s @Broseph44? I wanna read his thoughts about this movie.

 

[Kane52630]

Can't post it here, but Double Toasted has their review up.

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah the boxes were dormant. Superman's cry woke the box up.

Out of morbid curiousity, does the movie give any explanation, explicit or otherwise, on *why* his death cry wakes them up?

 

[Lone]

Out of morbid curiousity, does the movie give any explanation, explicit or otherwise, on *why* his death cry wakes them up?

Cyborg mentioned that the motherbox was afraid of Superman.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Out of morbid curiousity, does the movie give any explanation, explicit or otherwise, on *why* his death cry wakes them up?

If only he didn't have a super scream that went around the world....the world would've been safe.

 

[cabel]

I don’t think it was so much the scream itself that woke the boxes, just the fact that he was dead. The scream shockwaves was just a means to visualize that idea.

 

[blackdragon6]

As sad as I am to say it, I think Cavill's time is done. WB obviously isn't interested in the slightest of developing a solo sequel with him, so this being his last outing is bittersweet and not in the best of ways.

Well allegedly he's still showing up in other films ala batfleck. I'd hope WB would stop being standoffish and let Cavill fly again.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I don’t think it was so much the scream itself that woke the boxes, just the fact that he was dead. The scream shockwaves was just a means to visualize that idea.

That wouldn't make sense though. Superman has only been around for 2-3 years. They went 5000 years or whatever w/no Superman to wake up.

 

[blackdragon6]

That wouldn't make sense though. Superman has only been around for 2-3 years. They went 5000 years or whatever w/no Superman to wake up.

Eh maybe, but Cyborg said they were dormant tho. It's probably could just be waved away as bad timing.

 

[Gothamsknight]

killing Superman off in BVS, and having Batman suddenly act like he failed him as if they had a ton of history didn't work in BVS and it still doesn't work here. I honestly couldn't feel any of the "emotional weight" this movie was trying to push on us regarding Supermans death in BVS. everything in Snyders DCEU films has happened so fast that it just doesn't feel rewarding. Superman should not have been killed off in BVS, and as I said, it's a mistake that pretty much ruined everything else regarding that version of the character.