2011/2012 NBA Thread: Where Weather Happens

Status
Not open for further replies.
3 of which he won, slowing down the most dominant player of his generation...

How? He routinely had the most assists on the team, and also played the opposing teams best player, which almost always wasn't a Center.

The key word here is "usually". Didn't happen. Didn't even get a chance to happen.

Because it's happened enough through the regular season, where the stakes were considerably less. Why try it now, with your playoff lives on the line?

Or you could go to him via a high-low, and get Gasol more into the game as well... Which granted, isn't going to happen around the middle of the 2nd when Bynum is on but spelling Gasol... But what's the excuse the rest of the time? When they could actually go to that as a serious route... Especially, when that's supposedly a major component of Brown's "system" which the Lakers as an entire team follow and a certain player never deviates from and does his own thing...

Kobe doesn't deviate from it when it's working, or when he feels it's important for him to be more aggressive. I don't understand why people fail to realize that the Center position is the easiest to double team. Teams already have no real incentive to play the shooters because they aren't effective enough. So unless Kobe is doing his thing, they'll just sit in the paint on Bynum all night, which the Nuggets did damn near every game.

1. He should, the guy's a facilitator.
2. I'm not even sure that he actually does... And he certainly doesn't when Kobe goes on one of his f***ed up solo spurts from seemingly nowhere.

Yeah he does, 90% of the time Kobe gets the ball from him lol, much more than he does from Sessions.

He should be more of a facilitator... Honestly, it's still not happening enough. Although personally I'd have him playing a little closer in around 15-20... Working high-lows with Bynum and flashing Kobe, and not have him step outside except for screen work and the occasional pick and pop.

Well this is where Mike Brown is somewhat accountable. You can't demand the guy to be a passer from the High Post, then at the same time want his shots to come closer in, it's just not going to happen. The bottomline is you can't have three guys in the post, and Bynum is clearly more effective there. Kobe is too, when he decides to stay in that area, the real issue is the Lakers not committing to Pau in the post with the reserves in. He still hangs around the High Post doing the same thing.

How am I blaming Bynum being an All-Star on Kobe?

Wasn't my point, I'm referring to the real reason behind Pau's reduced touches, it's Bynum's emergence way more than Kobe gunning. Remember, those two rings were won with Bynum basically a non-factor offensively, so it was still Pau & Kobe working off of each other, way more then they do now.

Well your main point is dumb as dogs***.

Gasol made a single key turnover on an albeit dumb move looking to kick the ball out. Game 2, the last 7 plays which finished through Kobe he went 0-5 and had two of those turnovers. To attempt to apply equal blame on Gasol's singular error as Kobe's continued errors is flawed on what should be a basic and clear level to anybody capable of thinking of the matter objectively.

How you figure, the backbreaker for Kobe was really the pass Durant picked off, he didn't have anything to do with Blake passing to him with Westbrook right there.

With his shots, one of those attempts were when the shot clock was running down (when he grabbed the ball as it was rolling towards him with 5 left on the clock) and a few were called plays for him to try and tie the game with three's.

His real error was the Durant turnover, just as Pau's turnover was the main factor behind the loss. Obviously other things go into it over the course of 4 quarters, but acting like Kobe was shooting those shots within his game is false, at least two were desperation shots/plays to try and tie, and one was with the clock running down. A running theme for him is bailouts, I'm sure you've seen them toss him the rock with seconds left at least 5 times EVERY game.

The Heat don't have a whole lot of ball movement or offensive structure to their game either... It's why they play best when they can get out in transition... Half court they generally stand around and watch while Lebron or Wade try to make things happen.

Guys like Mike Miller and Mario Chalmers have gradually gotten used to playing under that system, but shooting cold is... as I've said before... not an easy thing to do.

And that has hurt Shane Battier and his numbers this season, because he's accustomed to playing in systems which see legitimate ball movement as well.

But how are they cold when Lebron is looking for them the whole game? They don't have a lot of motion or movement, which is bad offense, no argument there. But regardless Lebron still gets them around 3-5 shots each, at least. Open shots. And they aren't fairing any better than the Lakers "shooters" which is my point. It's false to assume that more touches automatically equals better results, if that were case, Lebron would have two rings already, as he's been surrounded with good shooters quite a few times. And they always got the ball.

Wow... A Kobe fan who thinks passing is overrated... That's something new.

And they're not "getting easier opportunities" because it was a general statement with no weight as to the kind of possessions they're getting... They're "getting more opportunities" because, funnily enough you can't shoot the ball when you don't have it. But even then the quality of those opportunities are not being addressed at all in the equation.

How so? They've been wide open ALL season because everyone sits in the lane on Bynum and lets them shoot. This is factual, and it's been a problem the whole time, so I don't see why now, with the playoffs here, Kobe is supposed to have faith that these guys will all of a sudden rise to the occasion.

I agree with the comment regarding the assist being an overrated stat, though for different reason, particularly in regards to it's ability to determine ball hogs.

Well, we agree on something :oldrazz:

He doesn't need 10 shots to be effective... Just to have the ball go through him in the offense and to actually play his role... since, as you yourself said, he IS the point guard.

He starts the offense, it's coming from him, so how isn't he touching it? On top of that, there's been plenty of times that he's showed no confidence in his shot dating back to last year. If he doesn't have belief in it himself, nobody else will either. Against Denver he wasn't getting the ball anymore or less than he ever does, he was just ready to shoot when it came to him and didn't hesitate. Hesitation is more of a problem for him (and Sessions) then Kobe will ever be.

Funny how professionalism doesn't run the other way when it comes to throwing teammates under the bus or freezing them out of the offence.

While guys SHOULD continue to play hard regardless of how much ball they see, people still tend to work harder when they actually get to play a part of the offence...

There's a reason for the maxim of rewarding the bigs when they run the floor, and it doesn't just stop at transition. When guys know that they're going get to be a part of the action they work harder. It's just the way things are. Same thing applies in life, people who know they have no chance of promotion in business will try to skate by on the bare minimum while guys who know there's a real chance of advancement and acknowledgement will work harder.

Oh it does, Kobe shouldn't have called him out publicly, but checking the track record, it seems to work. You also can't freeze someone already frozen. That's like saying D-Wade froze out Lebron in the Finals last year. It's clear as day when Gasol is looking for his opportunities and when he's not. Kobe called him out last series, and like magic, Game 7 Gasol scores 20+ points and grabs boards. He didn't get the ball anymore that game then he usually does, he just decided to do something aggressive with it when the time came, something he shouldn't be reminded to do.

It does apply to Kobe too... And did particularly when he went through his ******* over-passing phase purely to prove a point some years back. But generally doesn't apply because he seldom let's himself go extended periods without taking shots.

And that's partially why, he's not going sit by and watch these guys miss open shots for too long, or Bynum getting doubled and being useless against it, and grow cold because of it. Somebody needs to do something.

Incidentally, the idea that Kobe closes games well and Lebron doesn't isn't statistically supported... You Kobe stat-monkeys know that, right?

As far as walk off, game winning shots, Kobe's hit more than anyone else in NBA history, so I don't really see your point. The fact is he's willing to take those shots way more than anyone else is, and is put in that position way more than anyone else has over the last decade. In just 2010, he hit 7 game winners in the season, so no, there's no confusion on where he stands in regards to anyone else in the clutch. He can miss the rest of his game winners the rest of his career, until someone else hits more, it's a mute point.
 
Last edited:
Bynum gets two straight possessions to end the 3rd, bricks them both. Kobe goes down on the next possession and drains a three.

Kobe and Laker haters please stop pretending you know what's wrong with the Lakers and that one of the best players to ever play the game is the problem.
 
Bynum gets two straight possessions to end the 3rd, bricks them both. Kobe goes down on the next possession and drains a three.

Kobe and Laker haters please stop pretending you know what's wrong with the Lakers and that one of the best players to ever play the game is the problem.

You sir are what we call on the ESPN boards a Kobe-kid. Kobe can take 10 straight bad shots, miss them all but you'd blame his team some kind of way. No matter what anyone says, KK's won't see the truth.
 
Wait, so the Lakers are winning right because Kobe is taking so many shots? They're not? How can this be?
 
You sir are what we call on the ESPN boards a Kobe-kid. Kobe can take 10 straight bad shots, miss them all but you'd blame his team some kind of way. No matter what anyone says, KK's won't see the truth.
No, I criticize him anytime he decides to take practically half court jumpers or chuck up shots a second after in-bounding it but I've been watching the Lakers enough to no Kobe's the last problem this team has.

Fans of other teams think they know, but they don't. Kobe again tonight proves me right. It's a one man show out there, no one else is capable of doing anything. Bynum's just tossing the ball at the rim, Gasol's being soft as always, Sessions is throwing the ball around recklessly, Peace has actually produced some good moments but most have been lucky and come out of desperation rather then well thought out and executed moves like Kobe.
 
Lol, wow, I knew I'd come in here and somehow you guys would find a way to blame Kobe for tonight. SMDH...
 
Shaking my damn head. SMH is more common.

Kobe with 40 points. His fault though no one else can do anything.

It was close until the 4th when Kobe went cold. If Kobe kept them in it, then he had something to do with them losing. But I'm sure he's going to blame Gasol.
 
I didn't think Lakers would win the series, but I was hoping they'd have enough pride to try to win another game so the series can go back to Staples Center. Doesn't make any difference in the end, though, and Lakers' problems are very glaring right now. As much as I like Pau Gasol, I won't be surprised if he is traded next season, because overall his performance in the playoff has been more misses than hits. Until next season...
 
Shaking my damn head. SMH is more common.

Kobe with 40 points. His fault though no one else can do anything.

It was close until the 4th when Kobe went cold. If Kobe kept them in it, then he had something to do with them losing. But I'm sure he's going to blame Gasol, even though he played better than Bynum.
 
It was close until the 4th when Kobe went cold. If Kobe kept them in it, then he had something to do with them losing. But I'm sure he's going to blame Gasol.

Doc, c'mon man. The game got out of hand when Kobe was on the bench in the 4th.
 
It was close until the 4th when Kobe went cold. If Kobe kept them in it, then he had something to do with them losing. But I'm sure he's going to blame Gasol.
Kobe was the only one keeping the game even close with 42 pts. He doesn't have any blame or anything to do with them losing. Just about everyone besides him does especially Gasol, Bynum, and Sessions.

Don't care if everyone was given their marching orders this off season except Kobe. Bynum's the only one worth throwing in there with Kobe seeing as hes still got time to mature and become a better player.
 
Eh. We agree to disagree. There's not a bigger ball hog in the NBA since Allen Iverson. He's the reason they didn't go anywhere despite having one of the most dominate frontlines in the NBA and I'm not talking one game.
 
You just like inciting the riot around here, there's no possible way your pinning this on him tonight, 42 pts on over 50% shooting, get outta here man
 
Bynum and Gasol are not dominant players. Perkins and Ibaka is a more dominant front court then Bynum and Gasol. Javale McGee alone at times in the Denver series was a more dominant front court then those two.
 
Well...well...well...Time for your first pick'em series in a long time.

Heart says Thunder
Brain says Spurs

so Spurs probably win in 7
 
Spurs over Thunder in 6, maybe 5. If, or more succinctly, when, OKC has their customary offensive lull for a quarter or two, the Spurs are equipped to capitalize on it. Quickly.
 
Spurs over Thunder in 6, maybe 5. If, or more succinctly, when, OKC has their customary offensive lull for a quarter or two, the Spurs are equipped to capitalize on it. Quickly.
Finally we agree! I'm going Spurs in 5. I think the Lakers had the right blue print until Kobe went crazy and lost the series for them. I think the Spurs will carry out the blue print quite easily.
 
Finally we agree! I'm going Spurs in 5. I think the Lakers had the right blue print until Kobe went crazy and lost the series for them. I think the Spurs will carry out the blue print quite easily.

Lol, I think your going crazy
 
This isn't a hate on Kobe post but how do you have 42 points, play that many minutes and not record an assist the whole game? I mean, I don't care how bad the guys around you are, not even an assist by accident? How many times has this happened?
 
Well I guess if you shoot enough to have 42 points you're not passing most of the time.
 
This isn't a hate on Kobe post but how do you have 42 points, play that many minutes and not record an assist the whole game? I mean, I don't care how bad the guys around you are, not even an assist by accident? How many times has this happened?

Oh that's definitely a hate on Kobe post. But to answer your question, in the illustrious words of Jim Kelly from Enter the Dragon, He was too busy looking good :oldrazz:

Seriously though, if he hadn't come out aggressive, then it would be a Game 7 against Phoenix situation all over again from '06 when people criticized him for not shooting enough (even though he still had 24 in that game). At this point in his career, at this point in the series, I'm pretty sure he didn't give a f**k about getting an assist, and given the body language of Pau & Bynum, neither did I.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,307
Messages
22,083,181
Members
45,882
Latest member
Charles Xavier
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"