2012: A Monster Year? (box office predictions) - Part 4

[Solidus]

I said ages ago that I thought that TDKR wouldn't be as good as TDK, specifically because I think that TDK is about the best the Batman character is capable of. There really isn't any room above that to be better. How often has there been a film as good as TDK that has been followed up by a sequel just as good or better? There are very few in the entire history of cinema. For me there are four: Godfather I & II, Star Wars/The Empire Strikes Back, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and Frankenstein/Bride of Frankenstein. That's it in over 100 years of motion pictures. It is exceedingly rare.

That said, it won't affect the box office or GA approval ratings. It will just lead to a bunch of complaining from the usual suspects on the internet.

I find it weird that people are saying TDKR is less then what it's predecessor is. I would say some are saying that, while others are saying TDKR is the best. It will be split for sure. But by no means is TDKR dipping into the typical third trilogy curse. Many are acting like an 86/87% is bad. And actually on Metacritic this film is almost complete with it's reviews and is holding around the level of TDK.

I'm just saying that I find it odd that it does not get the same "tomato" rating and people are saying it's a failed trilogy? No it sounds like this one still regardless of how some are ranking it breaks that trilogy "curse".

 

[craigdbfan]

I find it weird that people are saying TDKR is less then what it's predecessor is. I would say some are saying that, while others are saying TDKR is the best. It will be split for sure. But by no means is TDKR dipping into the typical third trilogy curse. Many are acting like an 86/87% is bad. And actually on Metacritic this film is almost complete with it's reviews and is holding around the level of TDK.

I'm just saying that I find it odd that it does not get the same "tomato" rating and people are saying it's a failed trilogy? No it sounds like this one still regardless of how some are ranking it breaks that trilogy "curse".

True words.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

I'd argue that TDKR was inflicted with the 3rd movie curse, just in a different sense.

 

[Solidus]

What sense is that? In a trilogy there are always argue which one is better. And so far many say TDKR is better, while others argue TDK, and some still Begins.

Just like LOTR I know so many people that fight over that even though all three of them are amazing. I have friends that prefer TTT, others FOTR, and some ROTK. And that's just how it goes. And ROTK ranked lower then TTT but higher then FOTR. So no it does not mean it's inflicted at all.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

How? Upon looking over the reviews, 29% of the critics thought TDKR surpassed TDK/BB, and 35% thought TDKR was on par with TDK/BB. The remaining 36% believed TDKR was the weakest trilogy (or a click below TDK). So, in reality, well over half of the critics thought TDKR was a great/stellar film. It'll come down to personal preference (of course) but the film lived up to expectations to many critics out there. It may not be as universally praised as TDK, but hey, it's still receiving overwhelming positive reviews.

Furthermore, the new projections for opening weekend are Earth-shattering. I personally don't believe the film will take the opening weekend crown without 3D, but TDKR is already shattering presale records, so we'll see.

As far as I'm concerned, TDKR is already a colossal success.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

No, you people are just trying to dumb it down too much.

The ending was integral. None of the movie was real. It was all a dream. It's nearly implicitly staged like 20 times throughout the film.

And the whole point of the movie is that perception is more important than reality.

In a way, yes, but while I accept that there other interpretations personally I do not think it was all a dream. I know it was an attempt to say that Cobb was happy, no matter what, but I still think that leaving it spinning to see and teasing that he's still dreaming I don't feel it was necessary.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Quite a few sites are raising their estimates right now to 200m+ OW.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't think TDKR will get more than $200 million.

I'm predicting $175 to $195 million.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What sense is that? In a trilogy there are always argue which one is better. And so far many say TDKR is better, while others argue TDK, and some still Begins.

Just like LOTR I know so many people that fight over that even though all three of them are amazing. I have friends that prefer TTT, others FOTR, and some ROTK. And that's just how it goes. And ROTK ranked lower then TTT but higher then FOTR. So no it does not mean it's inflicted at all.

ROTK is not amazing, and FOTR is easily the best.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

What sense is that? In a trilogy there are always argue which one is better. And so far many say TDKR is better, while others argue TDK, and some still Begins.

Just like LOTR I know so many people that fight over that even though all three of them are amazing. I have friends that prefer TTT, others FOTR, and some ROTK. And that's just how it goes. And ROTK ranked lower then TTT but higher then FOTR. So no it does not mean it's inflicted at all.

Yeah, people are just overreacting, and it's getting ridiculous.

Critics from RT are getting death threats, and other users here are saying it's disappointing despite A) Not seeing the movie and B) it's RT rating not being in the 90s.

All the pre-release discussions about TDKR are getting more ridiculous.

ROTK is not amazing, and FOTR is easily the best.

They're all amazing.

 

[Marvin]

lol at begins being the better of the three.
maybe the most significant.

^imo.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

The Tomato-Meter was a hoot. I can't believe how depressed and giddy some individuals got with an 91% or even an 88%. It's like watching an emotional roller-coaster. The same goes for negative reviews -- they read one or two, and fans start to panic. You literally have to remind folks that it's 130 positive reviews vs 17 negative reviews. Seriously. Get a grip.

As for people liking Batman Begins more than The Dark Knight, it's actually not that uncommon. To me, Begins had the better story but Knight was the better overall film. It various from person to person. After TDKR is released, Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy is going to be compared to Jackson's LOTR trilogy. Fellowship, Two Towers and Return have their own fans citing which one was 'the best'. The same will transpire amongst Batman fans. Begins, Knight and Rises are going to their own supporters.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think (prior to having seen TDKR, of course) that BB is the best film about Batman made, and The Dark Knight is the best film featuring Batman made. So, TDK was overall better but BB did focus more on him and worked the Batman character better.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I think (prior to having seen TDKR, of course) that BB is the best film about Batman made, and The Dark Knight is the best film featuring Batman made. So, TDK was overall better but BB did focus more on him and worked the Batman character better.

Yes! Thank you! That's why I prefer BB to TDK. Begins focused on Bruce Wayne's torment and journey a hell alot more than Knight did.

It's likely why I believe TDKR is going to be the best of the trilogy for me.

 

[CConn]

Eh, I dunno. I think this one "it's a better Batman movie argument" is always kinda dumb.

While I'm a massive comic fan and reader, and the end of the day, a movie will always - first and foremost - be a movie. It should be a complete package. And about more than just it's titular character.

Thusly, if one film is legitimately better than another, it's just better. There's no "it's a better movie, but not for Batman" it's just better period.

 

[chaseter]

Any trailers with TDKR? Supes?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Maybe TDKR will show the MOS trailer starting at midnight.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Conspiracy theory #585:

Many Nolanite's claim Begins is the best of the trilogy to elevate the weakest Nolan Batman movie and thereby elevating the entire trilogy.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Can't believe you forgot to mention the Dollars trilogy.

That trilogy was the closest thing to perfection. While I enjoy the first two a bit more history tends to call the The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly the best of the bunch.

So that's one the few where the third movie outshines the others in reception and popularity despite the other two being amazing.

That's why I didn't count it. In the Dollars Trilogy, each film was better than the last and while they are all great, the only one I'd mention when we start talking about all-time classics on the level of TDK is The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. Now if you want to play loose with the term sequel and say that Once Upon a Time in the West is a sequel to the Dollars Trilogy, then yes, it would qualify. But I don't really consider it a sequel.

 

[CConn]

Yeah, I didn't think A Fistful of Dollars was all that incredible. It was good, sure, but it's not on the level of TGTBTU at all.

 

[DACrowe]

On the whole "better Batman movie" thing, I agree with CCon that they're both so similar in tone and style that it seems odd to say one is "a better Batman movie." BB has more of the Caped Crusader, but TDK is dealing with a larger in scale story that actually pulls heavily from fan-favorite comics stories (namely The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke and Batman #1), none of which feature the titular character as much as say, Year One, TDR (Returns), but are all beloved. TDK is more than Bruce's story. But it is still a Batman story to the end.

 

[Bim]

That's why I prefer BB to TDK.

Add me to this list, i like BB a lot more. For me TDK has better individual performances, but i enjoy BB more because the focus is on Bruce. Dunno why, i find myself skipping scenes with TDK when i put on the dvd, something that i dont do with Begins. I'm hopeful reading TDKR focuses more on Bruce's journey, but i'm trying to not overhype myself and go in with an open mind next week. Yes, i have to wait a week to see it in my country

 

[marvelman2006]

Add me to this list, i like BB a lot more. For me TDK has better individual performances, but i enjoy BB more because the focus is on Bruce. Dunno why, i find myself skipping scenes with TDK when i put on the dvd, something that i dont do with Begins. I'm hopeful reading TDKR focuses more on Bruce's journey, but i'm trying to not overhype myself and go in with an open mind next week. Yes, i have to wait a week to see it in my country

For some wierd reason, batman begins story seemed more smaller scale and bruce journey heavy that the story made more sense and had me more engaged. The dark knight just threw that out the window and was more of a crime study and a study of escalation and there was no real story honestly besides the joker terrorizing gotham and burning everything and then batman at the end becoming a fugitive in gothams eyes. Like you stated when I have it on I find myself skipping alot more scenes where as begins Im locked in for the full 2 and a half hours.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yes! Thank you! That's why I prefer BB to TDK. Begins focused on Bruce Wayne's torment and journey a hell alot more than Knight did.

It's likely why I believe TDKR is going to be the best of the trilogy for me.

I still like The Dark Knight more, but I do like that BB is the only Batman film in which Batman in which he is the clear focus. Though, BB has certain elements I dislike, also (which got corrected in TDK largely).

Eh, I dunno. I think this one "it's a better Batman movie argument" is always kinda dumb.

While I'm a massive comic fan and reader, and the end of the day, a movie will always - first and foremost - be a movie. It should be a complete package. And about more than just it's titular character.

Thusly, if one film is legitimately better than another, it's just better. There's no "it's a better movie, but not for Batman" it's just better period.

I am not saying Batman Begins was a better movie than The Dark Knight was. Quite the opposite. But, I do think The Dark Knight is more a film that works as an ensemble. Batman is not the true star of the film. There is no one star of the film. It's split between Batman, Dent, and the Joker fairly evenly. It is in this way, Batman Begins is a better BATMAN movie, because the film focuses entirely on him. The Dark Knight shifts focus a bit.

 

[CConn]

I still like The Dark Knight more, but I do like that BB is the only Batman film in which Batman in which he is the clear focus. Though, BB has certain elements I dislike, also (which got corrected in TDK largely).



I am not saying Batman Begins was a better movie than The Dark Knight was. Quite the opposite. But, I do think The Dark Knight is more a film that works as an ensemble. Batman is not the true star of the film. There is no one star of the film. It's split between Batman, Dent, and the Joker fairly evenly. It is in this way, Batman Begins is a better BATMAN movie, because the film focuses entirely on him. The Dark Knight shifts focus a bit.

Yes, I get what you're saying.

I'm just saying I don't prescribe to the notion that one film can be more preferable than another for characters alone. TDK is a better movie, so it's better period, despite it having more of an ensamble focus.