7.08 - Blue - Discussion thread (Spoilers)

cool site! Wow, he wasn't in it that much I guess.

I believe she also posts that info over on TWOP, but I don't go over there if I can help it.

I like LJ much better, even with the occassional fan wank (fans pissing off other fans and venting in their journals about it) that goes on.

Oh, here's just her LJ posts that have to do with the screen totals:

http://jeannev.livejournal.com/tag/screentime+total

Although she hasn't tagged all her screen total entries....
 
GAH!!!! I started typing this post, walked away to make dinner, watched the news for an hour, and when I came back, y'all had beaten me to the reference. :mad:

Well screw it. I'm posting it anyway, 'cause I spent time bouncing back and forth to gather the data. :p :p

Another problem with Blue was there wasn't enough Clark.
It's odd how if the story isn't really about him, he could be on the screen and still seem left out. Blue was all about the El Family dysfunctionality. Even though Clark is related by blood to Kara, Lara and Zor-El, his importance to the episode was seemingly sidelined, despite his actual presence on the screen itself.

As you know, Valerie keeps track of screen time for each main character by the episode and the season. I don't know how she has the patience, but I find her data fascinating. Here's her results for Blue and the season so far:

Blue, running time: 39m, 25m

Clark- 17m, 44s
Lex- 3m, 34s
Lana- 3m, 20s
Chloe- 5m, 33s
Lois- 6m, 43s
Kara- 10m, 37s
Lionel- 1m, 34s

Season to Date (# of eps)

Clark- 143m, 13s
Lex- 54m, 3s
Lana- 57m, 56s
Chloe- 68m, 23s
Lois- 33m, 52s (5)
Kara- 75m, 9s (6)
Jimmy- 22m, 24s (3)
Lionel- 18m, 20s (5)
Almost 18 minutes of Clark time for Blue, which is about average. But I'll be damned if it seemed that way 'cause his importance seemed downplayed. Compare that to an episode where the focus of the episode is on the big three:

Nemesis, running time: 40m, 28s

Clark : 17m, 32s
Lex : 20m, 55s
Lana : 14m, 18s
Chloe : 4m, 29s
Clark is the same, but Lex and Lana have much more screen time. Lex even had MORE! :eek: The perception was, Clark was on screen more than he was in Blue simply because Nemesis was an episode that focused on the core cast. JMHO.


Val's LJ: (Warning - Clark/TW drooling ahead):
http://jeannev.livejournal.com/

Yeah, yeah, useless post. I know. LOL
 
Well I enjoyed Blue, and I'm glad Clark got a chance to meet his mommy, even if it was only for a short time. He learned a little more about Jor-el, and he must be coming to the conclusion that the A.I. really is an A.I. and not an accurate depiction of who his father was.

It was just another little piece of the big puzzle.
 
sorry for posting spoilers but i have to get this out there.

i jsut cant believe that grant gabriel is julian luthor! i mean god, who saw that one comming. im still in shock
 
Well I enjoyed Blue, and I'm glad Clark got a chance to meet his mommy, even if it was only for a short time...
It was an.... okay episode, I guess. It wasn't anything special, IMHO. The only thing that kept it from being bottom of the barrel was the entertainment aspect. I didn't think the acting was very good. In fact, I thought it was pretty bad! And the story came off as a big "WTF?!" in places. But it had moments of park-your-brain-at-the-door action and pure fun, which I'm embarrassed to say, elevated the ep in a pleasing, eye candy sort of way. I say the same thing about episodes like Spell. Totally DUMB sheet, but entertaining nonetheless. I would make a poor critic, because sometimes I just want to have fun and don't care how bad the thing really is.

Clark meeting his mother "in the flesh" came off hollow and emotionless. I'm not sure if that was the writing, the acting, or the story itself. There simply was no there, there. And I don't say that about many things SV. Ironically, the most entertaining scenes (for me) were those with Zor-El ('cause he was such a great bad guy - much like Brainiac) and Grant (because it was interesting to see where they were going with his character, even if I thought it was ridiculous.)

On the flip side, Clark was blamed again for not thinking (what else is new?), made to look like an idiot (Kara was duped too - hello?) and apparently punished again for having human emotions. It was a frustrating episode, and that's *before* factoring in the Julian Luthor retcon, the Lana whitewash, and Jor-El's nonsense.

I DO look forward to reading Trip's review, 'cause I don't think she will be as distracted from the meat and potatoes of the episode as I was and she'll rate it based on what it deserves - not what the frilly facade oh so wonderfully camouflaged.
 
I feel that the episodes so far this season have been excellent. At least that's my opinion.:ninja:

Mine too. :up:
Except Fierce.

I'll have to take your word for it.

It's weird reviewing stuff like this now that I'm a spoiler phobe. Previously I had some idea of what was coming, now I don't.

It's a strange myopia. I hope it's making my reviews better, but I think now it's a double edged sword.
I've thought about this, and I've concluded that in the long run, for me, I get far more out of an episode that I've already discussed and read about in greater detail as opposed to if I see it completely unspoiled. That's just for me though, I can certainly understand why some people enjoy seeing the show without any knowledge of what's to come. Being spoiled just whets my appetite to see the episode, besides, I always remember that spoilers need to be taken with a generous portion of salt. ;)

I dont know how we can consider it a retcon at this stage when all we have to go by is what Lex told us.

Agreed. I'm not ready to jump on the retcon train yet either, and Memoria is one of my all-time favorite SV eps. Again, maybe I just look at these things differently, but even if they do retcon Memoria, it's not going to make me love Memoria any less. It's still the same quality episode to me.

I just wish all of that other stuff had been left for another time, so we could have got a more heartfelt story between Clark and Lara. It was too rushed and not enough time was spent exploring their relationship.
Agreed again, that's my main gripe about this episode - they really didn't capture the emotion that was needed in the Clark and Lara reunion. So much more should have been done and said, but there simply wasn't enough time I guess.

Well I enjoyed Blue, and I'm glad Clark got a chance to meet his mommy, even if it was only for a short time. He learned a little more about Jor-el, and he must be coming to the conclusion that the A.I. really is an A.I. and not an accurate depiction of who his father was.

It was just another little piece of the big puzzle.
I enjoyed it, but I'm still debating where to put it in the rankings list.
 
sorry for posting spoilers but i have to get this out there.

i jsut cant believe that grant gabriel is julian luthor! i mean god, who saw that one comming. im still in shock

Well, it's not a spoiler if the ep has aired.

So, you're okay.


It was an.... okay episode, I guess. It wasn't anything special, IMHO. The only thing that kept it from being bottom of the barrel was the entertainment aspect. I didn't think the acting was very good. In fact, I thought it was pretty bad! And the story came off as a big "WTF?!" in places. But it had moments of park-your-brain-at-the-door action and pure fun, which I'm embarrassed to say, elevated the ep in a pleasing, eye candy sort of way. I say the same thing about episodes like Spell. Totally DUMB sheet, but entertaining nonetheless. I would make a poor critic, because sometimes I just want to have fun and don't care how bad the thing really is.

Clark meeting his mother "in the flesh" came off hollow and emotionless. I'm not sure if that was the writing, the acting, or the story itself. There simply was no there, there. And I don't say that about many things SV. Ironically, the most entertaining scenes (for me) were those with Zor-El ('cause he was such a great bad guy - much like Brainiac) and Grant (because it was interesting to see where they were going with his character, even if I thought it was ridiculous.)

On the flip side, Clark was blamed again for not thinking (what else is new?), made to look like an idiot (Kara was duped too - hello?) and apparently punished again for having human emotions. It was a frustrating episode, and that's *before* factoring in the Julian Luthor retcon, the Lana whitewash, and Jor-El's nonsense.

I DO look forward to reading Trip's review, 'cause I don't think she will be as distracted from the meat and potatoes of the episode as I was and she'll rate it based on what it deserves - not what the frilly facade oh so wonderfully camouflaged.

I hope I don't disappoint.

I think one of the reasons I rated it so low was because it made me angry. I am rarely that negatively affected by an episode. I can probably count them on one hand and the list would include Static, Ageless, Lucy, and this.

Nonsense makes me mad and the story was just nonsense. Didn't help that Clark wasn't in character either...

I didn't say it in my review, but it wasn't Tom's best outting ever. I think he wasn't totally into what they wanted him to sell and the scene where his mom shows in the fortress is a perfect example.

That scene was flat from both Helen and Tom. I didn't feel like there was any great emotional connection at all between them.

Maybe I would have bought the story more if that had been there and it just wasn't.

I've thought about this, and I've concluded that in the long run, for me, I get far more out of an episode that I've already discussed and read about in greater detail as opposed to if I see it completely unspoiled. That's just for me though, I can certainly understand why some people enjoy seeing the show without any knowledge of what's to come. Being spoiled just whets my appetite to see the episode, besides, I always remember that spoilers need to be taken with a generous portion of salt. ;)

Well, in comparing what's it been like the last few seasons to this one, I think my reviews are more honest now.

Before, I woud know what was coming up and then couldn't mention it because Craig (rightly so) didn't want any commentary in a review to spoil future eps. I had to pretend to not know what I did for the sake of the review.

I didn't like doing that, now I'm more honest but it is hard to not look in the spoiler threads because that's where the action is online.

I miss that....

:(

But I don't regret my decision.


Serene said:
Agreed. I'm not ready to jump on the retcon train yet either, and Memoria is one of my all-time favorite SV eps. Again, maybe I just look at these things differently, but even if they do retcon Memoria, it's not going to make me love Memoria any less. It's still the same quality episode to me.

Oh, I don't agree with that last line at all.

It totally invalidates the parts of Lex's back story that were introduced in Memoria. How Julian died, why Lionel treated him the way he has all his life.

It's an important key to him as a character.

The terrific acting in that episode was just icing. John and Michael were fantastic and that last scene between father and son was one of the single best of the series.

Making that a lie does change the episode for me in a very big way.


Serene said:
Agreed again, that's my main gripe about this episode - they really didn't capture the emotion that was needed in the Clark and Lara reunion. So much more should have been done and said, but there simply wasn't enough time I guess.

Agreed.

I loved Zor-El but they spent too much time with him and not with Lara and Clark. One of the best parts of Memoria was how Clark had reconnected with Martha at the end.

It was a tender moment and there was nothing tender here. No fond memories from Lara... No mention of the fear she'd felt sending him off into space alone.... No real joy at seeing how well he'd been brought up... No humor at how big he'd gotten...

It wasn't intimate or personal at all. Just a passing over the ring that turned out to be a trick.

I would have taken a page from Al & Miles book when writing the scenes between Lara and Clark and made them reflexive of Martha's and Clark's from Memoria...

Or hell, any other good mother/son scene they'd had throughout the series.

It was a missed opportunity to help him emotionally connect to his biological mother in a way he never could otherwise.
 
Call me crazy.... but I think there is too much love out there for Memoria. It didnt touch me at all, in the way that it did others.

:ninja:

And yeah, the end scene with Clark and Martha was sweet, but its not the best Clark and Martha scene we've been given.
 
Call me crazy.... but I think there is too much love out there for Memoria. It didnt touch me at all, in the way that it did others.

:ninja:

And yeah, the end scene with Clark and Martha was sweet, but its not the best Clark and Martha scene we've been given.

Well, I guess you'd have to like Memoria to see Julian's being alive might be a bad thing.

However, I love that episode.

It's right up there with Labyrinth, Promise, Nemesis, Splinter, Transference and the Pilot for me.

It's so beautifully realized too. It was a perfect episode.
 
Well, I guess you'd have to like Memoria to see Julian's being alive might be a bad thing.

However, I love that episode.

It's right up there with Labyrinth, Splinter, Transference and the Pilot for me.

It's so beautifully realized too. It was a perfect episode.

If you want the honest truth from me, I find it boring. :O And for me Lexmas is my favourite episode, visually, followed closely by Reckoning and Promise.

And why do I find Memoria boring? Well, I guess, I just dont care so much about the character of Lex Luthor and his dysfunctional family and I hated the way they made Clark turn to Lionel, as if the only reason why he was doing so was to protect his own secret rather than looking out for Lex's well being.
 
I didn't like doing that, now I'm more honest but it is hard to not look in the spoiler threads because that's where the action is online.

I miss that....

:(

But I don't regret my decision.
Well, I am glad for you since it sounds like you're much more satisfied with your reviews this way.

Although, for selfish reasons, I do miss your input in the spoiler threads. :(

Oh, I don't agree with that last line at all.

It totally invalidates the parts of Lex's back story that were introduced in Memoria. How Julian died, why Lionel treated him the way he has all his life.

It's an important key to him as a character.

I guess it's all in how you choose to look at it. The episode, Memoria, still stands as it was, IMO. If Grant truly is the actual Julian (age discrepancies aside), then how does that change Lex's role in Memoria? Lex still thought he killed Julian and still felt that Lionel held that against him his entire life (at least until he found Julian). So I don't think it changes Lex's story in Memoria, but it does damn Lionel even more than he already is for knowingly allowing his son to carry the guilt of killing his sibling when he knew the sibling wasn't actually dead. In Memoria, Lionel was shown as being completely shocked by Lex's revelation that it was actually Lillian who "killed" Julian, but he would be, since he DID think it was Lex that had tried to kill the baby.
The only thing I see really being retconned is Lionel's knowledge of Julian's real status, but not his shock at the revelation about Lillian.

Of course, that's all moot if Julian is really a clone that Lex whipped up to play pool and drink beer with. :p

triplet said:
It's right up there with Labyrinth, Promise, Nemesis, Splinter, Transference and the Pilot for me.

If you want the honest truth from me, I find it boring. :O And for me Lexmas is my favourite episode, visually, followed closely by Reckoning and Promise.

Oh gosh, I love all of those ^. I'd have SUCH a hard time making an all-time favorite episode list. I think we've tried that here before, haven't we?
 
I guess it's all in how you choose to look at it. The episode, Memoria, still stands as it was, IMO. If Grant truly is the actual Julian (age discrepancies aside), then how does that change Lex's role in Memoria? Lex still thought he killed Julian and still felt that Lionel held that against him his entire life (at least until he found Julian). So I don't think it changes Lex's story in Memoria, but it does damn Lionel even more than he already is for knowingly allowing his son to carry the guilt of killing his sibling when he knew the sibling wasn't actually dead. In Memoria, Lionel was shown as being completely shocked by Lex's revelation that it was actually Lillian who "killed" Julian, but he would be, since he DID think it was Lex that had tried to kill the baby.
The only thing I see really being retconned is Lionel's knowledge of Julian's real status, but not his shock at the revelation about Lillian.

I agree with all of that. :up:

Oh gosh, I love all of those ^. I'd have SUCH a hard time making an all-time favorite episode list. I think we've tried that here before, haven't we?

Well Lexmas isnt my favourite episode storywise, but from a visual point of view, I think its been the most beautifully filmed episode of Smallville.
 
Well, I am glad for you since it sounds like you're much more satisfied with your reviews this way.

It's painful at times, but I think the experience of the show for me is the better for it and I think that reads though to my reviews.

Serene said:
Although, for selfish reasons, I do miss your input in the spoiler threads. :(

I'm sorry...

*hugs*

I miss that too.

:(



Serene said:
I guess it's all in how you choose to look at it. The episode, Memoria, still stands as it was, IMO. If Grant truly is the actual Julian (age discrepancies aside), then how does that change Lex's role in Memoria? Lex still thought he killed Julian and still felt that Lionel held that against him his entire life (at least until he found Julian). So I don't think it changes Lex's story in Memoria, but it does damn Lionel even more than he already is for knowingly allowing his son to carry the guilt of killing his sibling when he knew the sibling wasn't actually dead. In Memoria, Lionel was shown as being completely shocked by Lex's revelation that it was actually Lillian who "killed" Julian, but he would be, since he DID think it was Lex that had tried to kill the baby.

The only thing I see really being retconned is Lionel's knowledge of Julian's real status, but not his shock at the revelation about Lillian.

Of course, that's all moot if Julian is really a clone that Lex whipped up to play pool and drink beer with. :p

Well, it's Lex's back story in how Lionel dealt with the death of Julian that's important.

It hasn't changed from Lex's side, if Grant really is Julian, but it is a whole 'nother ball game on Lionel's side.

Lionel lying to Lex all those years, making him believe he'd been responsible for Julian's death?

Wow... that profoundly cold manipulation is beyond even Lionel, I think.
 
Hey, thanks for the response. I missed that answer in the last few pages.

By the way, one more for ya:

When is young Bruce Wayne gonna put in an appearance??

*I only kid.:oldrazz:

LOL:woot:

Well, you got my attention right there.

Another problem with Blue was there wasn't enough Clark.

:ninja:

But the only reason I gave it what I did was because he was in it and so gorgeous, despite his bad hair cut...

;)


I always wondered how Clark cuts his hair.:huh:
 
*scratches head*
The only thing I don't get with your review is...where is it said Lana is fully evil? And no offense but comparing Lana to Lex by calling her 'female Lex' is taking it a little far.

Lara only warned her that she shouldn't let the darkness (that developed because of what happened to her) consume her. To fight it. The mere fact that Lana was putting her life in danger by trying to buy some time till back-up comes (which she couldn't have known would be a powerless Clark) by getting in Zor-El's way speakes volumes. Lex would have made a run for the nearest exit.

Also in the scene with Clark she didn't admit she was evil. She knows the things she has done lately, she knows what those mean specially to the people around her. She is exactly aware of the place she is in right now. And all she said is that she doesn't know how to leave that behind. How to turn her back on it. How to fight it.

But if you think Lana is a female Lex now that's alright. After all we all have different opinions.
 
*scratches head*
The only thing I don't get with your review is...where is it said Lana is fully evil? And no offense but comparing Lana to Lex by calling her 'female Lex' is taking it a little far.

Lara only warned her that she shouldn't let the darkness (that developed because of what happened to her) consume her. To fight it. The mere fact that Lana was putting her life in danger by trying to buy some time till back-up comes (which she couldn't have known would be a powerless Clark) by getting in Zor-El's way speakes volumes. Lex would have made a run for the nearest exit.

Also in the scene with Clark she didn't admit she was evil. She knows the things she has done lately, she knows what those mean specially to the people around her. She is exactly aware of the place she is in right now. And all she said is that she doesn't know how to leave that behind. How to turn her back on it. How to fight it.

But if you think Lana is a female Lex now that's alright. After all we all have different opinions.

No, that's just it. I don't think she is but that's the way they appear to be taking her.

It makes no sense.

Lana isn't evil and shouldn't be.
 
Like in the Season 6 finale :woot:
When you think about. He made a run for it 2 times. First to get is behind out of the lab, leaving the doctor to the Phantom. And then leaving Clark behind to deal with it and running from the dam.
 
Enjoyed the review, trip. Of course, I didn't agree with most of it, but I still appreciated your take on the episode. :)

Quick error:

And what about Lucas? Why does no one mention the half-brother Lex had back in the Season 2 episode, "Insurgence?"

I believe you meant "Prodigal".
 
Just started reading, and this made me giggle - LOUD!

4. Lana wanted to spend money to help the "meteor infected" but used that as a cover to stalk Lex. Oddly, he doesn't really mind and again didn't press charges since it means he still means something to Lana. (Weird, but it is Lex... I guess he takes whatever love he can get since Clark no longer loves him.)
Trip, did you mean to say "Lionel" instead of Clark in that part? 'Cause Lex being all woobie over Clark not loving him sounds wicked funny, not to mention pretty slashy. LOL :p



EDIT: Okay, finished the review.

I think you were too easy on 'em. :D
 
I rewatched "Blue" (this time with the missus) and I must say I like it even less the second time.
For the first time since Season One, I have to admit that a lot of the acting in this episode was horrid.

I already mentioned Welling's piss-poor "Mom" line reading after FakeLara 'sploded. But upon rewatching, there were a few more instances of cringeworthy line deliveries.

To wit:

- Lara's "You're a man..." (Did anyone else feel like this line was delivered weirdly? Like she was cut off mid-sentence?)
- Lois and Grant's flirty banter in his office. (The whole scene).
- The paramedic wheeling Lionel away (which continues Smallville's long-running streak of casting terrible extras. Seriously, why even give these people lines?)
- Kara's "shredding the waves at Coast City" and BlanKara's "I don't know who I am" scenes. (Was never a fan, but never really complained about LV's acting either. In "Blue" though, it was unfortunate.)

I don't know what it was but the acting throughout was BAD. What other episodes has Glen Winter directed? I know he's a brilliant DOP, but maybe he's not so good at directing actors?

Also, I don't think anyone's mentioned the fact that Clark basically forgot about Martha.
Here's a line from Omar's TWOP recap that rang true to me when I watched the episode:

Omar G. said:
Clark says that ever since he found out he was adopted, he wanted to know what his real mother was like. Notice he said "real" not "birth" mother. Somewhere in D.C., MamaKent feels a sharp pang in her heart. ["Seriously, dude, what a clunker. That's bull****." -- Miss Alli]
 
I rewatched it last night too. It's official. I'm moving it down in my episode rankings after the next new ep airs. The acting in Blue was just that bad, and the dialog was worse. :csad:
 

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