6.19 Nemesis - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Prognosticator]

^Nice review. But it only seemed to remind me of the first half of SM last week. I still don't know how it ende, where our characters were left emotionally, and what twist was thrown in as SV heads toward the season finale??

 

[AgentPat]

^Nice review. But it only seemed to remind me of the first half of SM last week.

"SM?"

I still don't know how it ended,

* Lana blackmails Lionel into telling her what he knows.
* Clark wonders if his own past actions contributed to Lex's current behavior.
* Lex confronts Lana about her indecision about marrying Lex.
* Project Ares is on track.

where our characters were left emotionally,

* Lana is out for blood and being Luthorianly duplicitous.
* Clark is distraught over his collateral damage.
* Lex is smug believing he pulled off the baby deception.
* The Ares Prototype is unconscious but alive. No emotional mindest has been established with him yet.

and what twist was thrown in as SV heads toward the season finale??

* What does Lionel tell Lana? Will she tell Clark?
* Will Clark find out about Lionel's blackmail, and if so, will he be able to control his rage?
* How will Lex react when Lana finally tells him to take a hike? Will THAT be the "final straw?"
* How dangerous is Ares? What's Lex going to do with him?

All these questions and more will be resolved by the end of the season.

 

[Spidey Lover 10]

my question: IS THE BABY REALLY LANA'S OR SOMEONE ELSES?!?! IS IT A METEOR FREAK, TOO?!?!? THAT'S WHAT LEX'S NIGHTMARE FROM "PROMISE" MADE ME THINK!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AgentPat]

my question: IS THE BABY REALLY LANA'S OR SOMEONE ELSES?!?! IS IT A METEOR FREAK, TOO?!?!? THAT'S WHAT LEX'S NIGHTMARE FROM "PROMISE" MADE ME THINK!!!!!!!!!!

First off, please stop shouting.

Secondly, there is NO baby. None. She was NEVER pregnant. Lex's nightmare was a metaphor for him creating a monster: himself.

 

[Riva]

Trip, great review. And it's here early this time!

Just when I thought this awesome season couldn't get any better, they deliver this terrific episode. It's probably one of the stronger episodes of the season, if not the series.

Oh, yes. I was having such a tough time in the ''Rank 'em'' thread yesterday, because I just didn't know how to place all my favourites. Lol.

However, I suspect not all of her rookie attempts at Luthor style machinations were expert enough to fool Lex for long. Shooting what looked to be Lex's prize, silver plated gun without cleaning it and replacing the spent bullets may not have been a very good idea. One look at that gun and Lex will know she was the one that shot the locks off that case, not the police. Not exactly a smart move on her part.

It wasn't the smartest. I agree. But I think that made it a bit more realistic to me also. That Lana was being driven to these extremes, things she wouldn't normally do, so along the way naturally she'd make some mistakes too. In pulling some stuff off. But I agree with you about Lana, other than this. She was so fantastic in this episode, another wonderful turn by Kristin.

Also agree about your questions regarding Lionel. I wonder when we will actually get the answers to these this season. Or even if we'll get all the answers this season?

Anyway, the acting was terrific again this episode. Tom Welling was simply awesome. Clark was put into a very difficult situation. He went down to save Lex and he was the one who ended up needing saving. Tom played Clark as heroic, risking his life to save Lex's simply because it was the right thing to do. His dilemma was believable because he was obviously torn. Once Clark was down in the tunnels, he was frustrated by being weakened and unable to finish the job, not that he ever stopped trying, and Tom played his anger, frustration, weariness, and surprise at Lex's rescue of him, perfectly. I'm glad when Clark is passionate. Clark's usually so closed off emotionally, it's nice to see Tom to be able to let loose. Besides, he does "angry" better than almost anyone. At the end, when Clark realized that maybe he was at least partly to blame for who Lex had become because he'd given up on him, the epiphany was heart breaking. Although, personally I don't think Clark is at all to blame but in a literary sense he has to be. There is no evil without good to fight against it. The guys who were black hats always have to fight the ones wearing white ones, or they don't look as evil.

Michael was as good as he's ever been. The range of emotions Lex went through, were amazing to watch. Again, the scenes between Clark and Lex were wonderful. Lex blames Clark for a lot of their problems, but the way Michael played Lex's reactions to Clark's anger was fantastic. He'd made it clear that Lex knows he wasn't totally blameless in their growing animosity toward each other. It was fine line to tread and he played it so well. Also, later in the episode during Lana's speech about how much it would hurt to have someone lie about something profound, Lex almost seemed to crumble under the unspoken accusation. The looks that passed across Michael's face were so well done I could almost tell what Lex was thinking from moment to moment. He was truly at the top of his game in this episode.

:heart: for both Tom and Michael in this episode. They were on top of their game. And the characterizations for Clark and Lex were handled so well too. It was perfect.

 

[Serene]

My review's up....

http://www.kryptonsite.com/nemesisreview.htm

Awesome job! That's one of my favorite reviews by you.

I sent mine in last night, but it's not up yet. You're a lot more used to churning these things out than I am. I had a really hard time with this one because there was SO much that could be covered. I end up hacking things out left and right to keep it a reasonable size. Hopefully, it won't read like a choppy mess.

I gave it the same score you did, btw.

 

[Riva]

Rene, I'm assuming you're filling in for Hulk, right? Look forward to yours too!

Btw, something I've always been curious about, is it easier reviewing the better episodes, or the really bad ones? Dont ask how this thought popped into my head...lol. But it did.

 

[Serene]

Rene, I'm assuming you're filling in for Hulk, right? Look forward to yours too!

Yup. He's still attending to more important things. Hopefully, we'll get good news from him soon.

Btw, something I've always been curious about, is it easier reviewing the better episodes, or the really bad ones? Dont ask how this thought popped into my head...lol. But it did.

Speaking for myself, both extremes are tough for me. Like I said, triplet is more accustomed to writing these things on a weekly basis than I am so she may feel completely different about it. I tend to be my own worst enemy when it comes to writing though... I'm a little OCD about certain things.

Progeny was tough because I didn't love it and had a hard time finding things I found interesting enough to talk about. I don't like reviews that are basically glorified recaps, I want to learn more about an episode when I read someone's unique perspective. So, Progeny was hard to start, and ended up being the shortest review I've written. Oddly enough, Subterranean is another ep I didn't love so much, but I found a lot more to talk about in that one - probably because it was SO much more Clark-focused.

Promise and Nemesis are both eps I adored, but with them there was almost *too* much I wanted to say. So, tough again.

I guess I find them all a little tough, but I still enjoy the process.

 

[avidreader]

My review's up....

http://www.kryptonsite.com/nemesisreview.htm

That was a great review triplet. It was almost as intense as the episode. I found myself reading really fast to keep up with the pace of your words. Well done!

First off, please stop shouting.

LOL! Someone have caps lock problems ya think, or just tired of asking the same question and not getting an answer. t:

It wasn't the smartest. I agree. But I think that made it a bit more realistic to me also. That Lana was being driven to these extremes, things she wouldn't normally do, so along the way naturally she'd make some mistakes too. In pulling some stuff off. But I agree with you about Lana, other than this. She was so fantastic in this episode, another wonderful turn by Kristin.

I tend to look at those kind of things a little differently. We have 40 - 43 minutes to get the story across. Do we really want to break the momentum and the pace that we have going by watching her pick up the bullets that she fired off the floor, and reloading the gun. I just think those kinds of things happen in Offscreenville.

Progeny was tough because I didn't love it and had a hard time finding things I found interesting enough to talk about. I don't like reviews that are basically glorified recaps, I want to learn more about an episode when I read someone's unique perspective.

Absolutely! That's why I love your reviews so much because you delve right into metatextual side of the story, which offers a completely unique take on an episode.

That's one of the reasons why I love Smallville so much, because of all the metaphors that they have going on. I think sometimes some people just arent tuned in to that kind of viewing, and they ended up missing so much of what is actually happening.

I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense, but I think you get my drift.

Be sure to post a link to your review Rene when its up.

 

[triplet]

Trip, great review. And it's here early this time!

Yeah, Craig promised to try and get them up sooner, which I appreciate.

It wasn't the smartest. I agree. But I think that made it a bit more realistic to me also. That Lana was being driven to these extremes, things she wouldn't normally do, so along the way naturally she'd make some mistakes too. In pulling some stuff off. But I agree with you about Lana, other than this. She was so fantastic in this episode, another wonderful turn by Kristin.

Yeah, it's like that Shakespeare quote, "Oh, what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to decieve..." or however that goes... I think that is from Hamlet. She's not good with it yet, but she'll get better...

Or maybe not, given at least one supposed cliff-hanger for end of the season.

:heart: for both Tom and Michael in this episode. They were on top of their game. And the characterizations for and Lex were handled so well too. It was perfect.

Yep, I loved this episode for both of them. So awesome.

Awesome job! That's one of my favorite reviews by you.

Thanks!

*blush*

I sent mine in last night, but it's not up yet. You're a lot more used to churning these things out than I am. I had a really hard time with this one because there was SO much that could be covered. I end up hacking things out left and right to keep it a reasonable size. Hopefully, it won't read like a choppy mess.

I gave it the same score you did, btw.

Very good episode. I enjoyed it more each time I watched it. That will give it a five for me almost every time.

Rene, I'm assuming you're filling in for Hulk, right? Look forward to yours too!

Btw, something I've always been curious about, is it easier reviewing the better episodes, or the really bad ones? Dont ask how this thought popped into my head...lol. But it did.

Sometimes its harder to review ones you like, like for Labyrinth. I loved that episode, yet it was very hard to write.

This one, wasn't much better but mostly because I kept rewriting it...

It's easier to write about an episode you hate, but it can be harder to be really analytical about it. You don't want to watch it more than once to really try and understand why you didn't like it.... Ageless I hated more each time I saw it, and Static and Hypnotic were the same.

*shudders*

That's a bad sign.

 

[Serene]

Absolutely! That's why I love your reviews so much because you delve right into metatextual side of the story, which offers a completely unique take on an episode.

Thanks. *hugs*

I do love the meta, but fortunately, I'm also a big fan of the shallows.

 

[Riva]

Speaking for myself, both extremes are tough for me. Like I said, triplet is more accustomed to writing these things on a weekly basis than I am so she may feel completely different about it. I tend to be my own worst enemy when it comes to writing though... I'm a little OCD about certain things.

Progeny was tough because I didn't love it and had a hard time finding things I found interesting enough to talk about. I don't like reviews that are basically glorified recaps, I want to learn more about an episode when I read someone's unique perspective. So, Progeny was hard to start, and ended up being the shortest review I've written. Oddly enough, Subterranean is another ep I didn't love so much, but I found a lot more to talk about in that one - probably because it was SO much more Clark-focused.

Promise and Nemesis are both eps I adored, but with them there was almost *too* much I wanted to say. So, tough again.

I guess I find them all a little tough, but I still enjoy the process.

Sometimes its harder to review ones you like, like for Labyrinth. I loved that episode, yet it was very hard to write.

This one, wasn't much better but mostly because I kept rewriting it...

It's easier to write about an episode you hate, but it can be harder to be really analytical about it. You don't want to watch it more than once to really try and understand why you didn't like it.... Ageless I hated more each time I saw it, and Static and Hypnotic were the same.

*shudders*

That's a bad sign.

That's a lot of effort! But I think you should be proud of yourselves that it's reflected in your reviews. Interesting process, I've always thought, writing reviews. I think someone like me would probably keep wandering off track too much to keep a coherent line of analysis. Lol. That's the kind of feeling I get from Neal Bailey's reviews for eg.

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I tend to look at those kind of things a little differently. We have 40 - 43 minutes to get the story across. Do we really want to break the momentum and the pace that we have going by watching her pick up the bullets that she fired off the floor, and reloading the gun. I just think those kinds of things happen in Offscreenville.

I didn't think of it this way, you have a point Sue. In either case, it was one if things that seems to have a justifiable context behind it. Yay Caroline Dries! t: Apart from 'Sub', she has a great track record.

 

[SamuraiSon6]

very well written review triplet!

 

[avidreader]

Thanks. *hugs*

I do love the meta, but fortunately, I'm also a big fan of the shallows.

That's something to be very proud of and I'm glad I have company. t:

 

[Bruce_Wayne29]

Yet another excellent review Trip, love how you talked about the different layers of meaning in the dialogue. I loved it too. What a great episode.

 

[avidreader]

There was also the metaphor that the tunnel was crumbling down around Clark and Lex, much like their relationship.

 

[SamuraiSon6]

good catch avidreader, i love all the metaphors and double meanings, give the show a sense that it is much more than a tv drama

 

[Whiteflag]

Great review, triplet.

 

[triplet]

That's a lot of effort! But I think you should be proud of yourselves that it's reflected in your reviews. Interesting process, I've always thought, writing reviews. I think someone like me would probably keep wandering off track too much to keep a coherent line of analysis. Lol. That's the kind of feeling I get from Neal Bailey's reviews for eg.

Well, some it's ridiculously easy... I think Promise's review almost wrote itself. As a writer, I'm a structure fan, it's one reason why I love TV so much. It's actually easier for me to write TV, the time or two I've tried it anyway, than a feature. The structure is so set in stone.

Teaser and all the acts (4 or 5 depending) all have to fit in less than 47 or so pages... that's brutal if you like to expound, which I do, but once you get used to it, it can be a beautiful thing. The structure can be elegent at times, like a well structured novel or short story, like Promise or just awful when they screw it up like they did in Spirit.

Smallville had some problems when they first switched over to 5 acts from using 4, right around the time of Recruit and Lucy in Season 4. I think I could tell even. The act structure always seemed imposed until they started filming them with 5 acts instead of cutting it up after the fact.

Promise was so awesome structure wise, that's why I loved it as much as I did... Combat even was good at that, despite using the flashback setup in the tease.

I didn't think of it this way, you have a point Sue. In either case, it was one if things that seems to have a justifiable context behind it. Yay Caroline Dries! t: Apart from 'Sub', she has a great track record.

Caroline gets my vote for best writer this year, aside from the guys who wrote Labyrinth.



I could have kept on wrting about her wonderful dialogue and all the layers she folded into it for probably four or five more paragraphs longer than I did.

Beautiful script, minor contrivances and inconsistancies aside.

 

[Serene]

Beautiful script, minor contrivances and inconsistancies aside.

Couldn't agree more.

My review's up: NEMESIS, if you need proof.

 

[SamuraiSon6]

Above ground, Chloe leaves a message for Clark and in what is a bit of a departure for her, she babbles rather hysterically about sounding like a ‘stalker ex-girlfriend’ but knowing she’s ‘not a really an ex-girlfriend…’ etc. I thought she was completely charming and endearing, mostly because we’re so used to seeing Chloe always so quick and articulate when it comes to rapid-fire dialogue. It’s nice to see her with more realistic dialogue.

I agree as well, I loved this momentt:

They manage to successfully talk around the 800-pound secret in the room that both women acknowledge but can’t openly discuss.

I just like the way you worded this

While revisiting the area of the tunnels, Clark tells Chloe that all the tunnels lead to “Reeve’s Dam.” I don’t believe this is the last we’re going to hear of Reeve’s Dam.

hmm...interesting, i guess we will see...

very good review serene

 

[Whiteflag]

I already gave you my opinion, and my comments, but I'd say it again: great review, Serene.

 

[triplet]

Couldn't agree more.

My review's up: NEMESIS, if you need proof.

Beautiful review.



You brought up some points I wish I had, so I think between the two of us we got all the bases covered...



I loved how Jodi's speeches to Lex could have really been about his relationships with both Clark and Lana. Wonderful layers there and Michael reacted so well to those....

 

[avidreader]

Couldn't agree more.

My review's up: NEMESIS, if you need proof.

Your review read so effortlessly, I cant comprehend how you were stewing over the writing of it. It was so beautifully written.

Good job!

 

[Riva]

Interestingly, while Jodi was a convenient story device to set the ball rolling for Clark and Lex’s Big Adventure, she also delivered a few lines to Lex that clearly applied to his situations with both Clark and Lana.

So true. On watching this the second time, I realized this. Great way to work in the guest character actually playing a role of some importance.

Above ground, Chloe leaves a message for Clark and in what is a bit of a departure for her, she babbles rather hysterically about sounding like a ‘stalker ex-girlfriend’ but knowing she’s ‘not a really an ex-girlfriend…’ etc. I thought she was completely charming and endearing, mostly because we’re so used to seeing Chloe always so quick and articulate when it comes to rapid-fire dialogue. It’s nice to see her with more realistic dialogue.

I thought this was a little out of place actually. It just stuck out to me as a sore thumb, but you're right, for once Chloe was at a loss for words.

In a conversation of incomplete sentences, Chloe manages to convey to Lana that

Clark could die down in the tunnels, despite what Lana may think she knows about him. They manage to successfully talk around the 800-pound secret in the room that both women acknowledge but can’t openly discuss.

Lol! Yes, I also thought this was a well handled scene.

The escape from the tunnels leads into two of the scenes that really push this episode over the top. We see Clark land in the grass, and hear his inspiration as he fills his lungs while his body is revitalized by the glorious sunlight. We haven’t seen this link between the sun and his powers since the episode, Perry. The background music was appropriately dramatic for this classic shot.

The gorgeous, and subdued background music continued right into the next big scene which I consider to be one of the most moving scenes of the entire series. Lana and Chloe arrive at the scene, and as the smoke clears, we see Lana and Clark spy each other amidst the chaos around them. The power of this scene is in how much was conveyed on a purely emotional level by these two actors without a single line of dialogue being spoken. As Lana nears Clark, she lightly touches his wounded arm in concern. He takes her hand from the wound, which we know no longer exists under that bandage, and he places it over his heart, covered by his own. With a profound intimacy that can only go so far, their heads move towards each other, as close as they can possibly get without actually touching. The impossible longing has never been so apparent for these two. As more smoke clears, Lana sees Lex, her husband, and without hesitation, she begins to pull away from Clark. We see his hand desperately trying to hold her to him as she slides her hand away, keeping contact as long as she possibly can. With the forced smile of a happy and dutiful wife, she runs into Lex’s arms. Once in his arms, the look on her face reveals her true sadness, but the looks being exchanged by Clark and Lex are even more telling. The truths and accusations they revealed to each other in the tunnels now weigh heavy between them.

So well said! These were such highlights of the episode. And that's a real feat, considering just how good the whole ep was.

Really enjoyed the review, Rene.