9.21 - Hostage - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[RagingTempest]

The arcs could have worked well (Kryptonians VS Humanity) if TPTB didn't rely so much on Offscreenville to develop them.

Checkmate could have been a powerful force (like Section 31 on Trek) but having Stuart and Martha Kent as top Checkmate agents? AND Tess.. They wasted a good opportunity here.

Martha wasn't a Checkmate agent, she was working to stop Checkmate from going after Clark. She just had the resources because she's the US Senator.

 

[SuperDaniel]

I thought this was one of the best Smallville episodes EVER.

 

[Webhead2006]

When did they change the design and color for the Book of Rao? Was it not green and from a rock-like material?

The book hasnt changed at all. When we learned of it in kandor episode it was a green octangle key like device, like the silver one we had since season 1.

As for the 3rd person talk, i agree with you guys. I found it odd at times over the years.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Martha wasn't a Checkmate agent, she was working to stop Checkmate from going after Clark. She just had the resources because she's the US Senator.

My point was it was lame how Checkmate; Amanda Waller, Lord etc, were afraid of the Red Queen and believed she was a player in Checkmate, regardless if Martha was an agent or not.

Martha definitely wasn't acting alone either. She had an entourage. But regardless, it's obvious this characterization didn't suit Ma Kent. The whole thing was bizzare and forced.

 

[spawnjack01]

Just watched it and to sum up my feelings about it: One of the best in SV series.
I actually felt an unease the last ten minutes knowing the episode was heading for the end.
I think it had the perfect balance between the old SV and the present.

And about Martha being out of character, she wasn't. She has previously been hiding things from both Jonathan and Clark in order to protect Clark. And it is also a good point that they brought up which is often forgotten: Martha wasn't brought up as a simple farmgirl. It was a sacriface she made because she loved Johnathan.
Both of Clarks parents has always done everything in their power to protect Clark. But in two very differant ways: Johnathan with his fists and a rifle, Martha through list and secrecy.

I really loved the previous episode but to sum up my largest complaint about this ep: It ended

 

[B]

This was a so-so episode for myself. On one side of the coin I really liked Perry White in this episode, it was good to see him & Lois somewhat working together as well laying seeds in the ground for (hopefully) his more permanent introduction next season as editor of the Daily Planet. The return of Martha was great as well, I've really missed O'Toole's character on the show. It wasn't until she had stopped being a regular that you realised how important her character was to the show. I'd really like to see her make a return next season for at least half of the episodes, the Clark/Martha relationship is good to watch.

On the other side of the coin, this episode I felt would have been better placed BEFORE Sacrifice due to the way Sacrifice ended. Which meant I didn't really enjoy this episode as I suppose I should have because it seems like one I'd generally like. It didn't feel like a "filler" episode it felt more like a "stall" episode mainly because of the position in which it aired.

The Clark/Lois relationship ending was something we basically knew would come if they are to follow through & somewhat try to at least line up with the ending of the mythos as best as possible. That being said, I'd be interested to have Smallville's Lois actually know Clark has powers prior to an actual Superman reveal. It would further add this stories unique'ness & give the story a new interesting dynamic that people won't have seen before.. much like the rest of the show.

Anyway, I liked this episode, but didn't like it as much as I probably should have because of its airing position. I'd have thought last weeks episode would have been a better set up to what is expected in the finale. 3/5 for me on this weeks episode though, next weeks looks like it is gonna be good.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

as well laying seeds in the ground for (hopefully) his more permanent introduction next season as editor of the Daily Planet.

They didn't really lay any seeds for Perry to be permenant editor of the Daily Planet or even to work for them.

 

[spawnjack01]

They didn't really lay any seeds for Perry to be permenant editor of the Daily Planet or even to work for them.

Yes,they have. They have planted three suddle but very imporant seeds that would make the whole thing easy.

#1 In ep 20, Lois and Clark talks to loud about the editors coming and going. When the owner (I think he is, is he?), overheard them talking he told them that the DP are scouting for someone more permanent.

#2 The comment Perry said to Lois in the end that he had a talk with the owner. They implied that they at least are on really good terms with one another.
And it means alot since he was basically banned from the paper last time we saw him (thanks to the Luthers influence on the DP).

#3 Perry have now worked with Lois and he knows how good Clarks reporter skills are, so it's not far fetched that he would want the two of them at the top where he'll be running things.

 

[Prison Mike]

I thought the one scene that really hit home for me was when they were getting ready for dinner and Perry walks in the house with Jonathan's jacket on and for a moment, he looks likes him. Martha became emotional and needed time for herself. I really liked that scene. As for everything else, it was a bit underwhelming. Martha as Red Queen was stupid and so was her knowledge of all things Kryptonian. I agree about the use of 3rd person in the episode. They always do that as well as the annoying pop culture references that Chloe spouts out. Ever since season 1 that has been the most annoying thing for me.

 

[gohei_]

The book hasnt changed at all. When we learned of it in kandor episode it was a green octangle key like device, like the silver one we had since season 1.

As for the 3rd person talk, i agree with you guys. I found it odd at times over the years.

Yes, but in this episode it was silver metallic and not green.

 

[spawnjack01]

Martha as Red Queen was stupid and so was her knowledge of all things Kryptonian.

Yeah... It's not like she's been raising one or anything...

 

[Eros]

Yes,they have. They have planted three suddle but very imporant seeds that would make the whole thing easy.

#1 In ep 20, Lois and Clark talks to loud about the editors coming and going. When the owner (I think he is, is he?), overheard them talking he told them that the DP are scouting for someone more permanent.

#2 The comment Perry said to Lois in the end that he had a talk with the owner. They implied that they at least are on really good terms with one another.
And it means alot since he was basically banned from the paper last time we saw him (thanks to the Luthers influence on the DP).

#3 Perry have now worked with Lois and he knows how good Clarks reporter skills are, so it's not far fetched that he would want the two of them at the top where he'll be running things.

Tess owns the DP, Stern is the editor.

 

[Syncos]

My point was it was lame how Checkmate; Amanda Waller, Lord etc, were afraid of the Red Queen and believed she was a player in Checkmate, regardless if Martha was an agent or not.

Waller and Lord didn't believe she was a "player in checkmate" rather a player in the game in which checkmate is playing. She's an outside influence looking to take down Checkmate. She recruited Lord in a previous episode. He was no longer work for checkmate, but for the red queen.

She seemed to throw a lot of power around and couldn't have been acting alone. with outhacking Chloe and being several steps ahead of everyone. Obviously they had a reason to be a little afraid. mostly of the unknown i'm guessing.

it's obvious this characterization didn't suit Ma Kent. The whole thing was bizzare and forced.

This is the characterization that Martha's had for a long time. Doing anything and everything to protect her son, including lying and stealing. Granted in earlier seasons she was being devious to Lionel, which made her acts seem less dastardly. Regardless. Now that she's in a position of power, it makes perfect sense that she'd just up her game a bit.

The biggest problem isn't with the characterization, its with contrasting it to scenes with her baking pies and thinking about johnathan.

 

[Superfreak]

Yes,they have. They have planted three suddle but very imporant seeds that would make the whole thing easy.

#1 In ep 20, Lois and Clark talks to loud about the editors coming and going. When the owner (I think he is, is he?), overheard them talking he told them that the DP are scouting for someone more permanent.

#2 The comment Perry said to Lois in the end that he had a talk with the owner. They implied that they at least are on really good terms with one another.
And it means alot since he was basically banned from the paper last time we saw him (thanks to the Luthers influence on the DP).

#3 Perry have now worked with Lois and he knows how good Clarks reporter skills are, so it's not far fetched that he would want the two of them at the top where he'll be running things.

I'm trying to be subtle

 

[B]

They didn't really lay any seeds for Perry to be permenant editor of the Daily Planet or even to work for them.

Err.. yes they did. They mentioned a few episodes ago that the Daily Planet had launched a state wide search to find a new editor & chief for the Daily Planet, combine that with the fact that Perry White actually showed up, met & worked with Lois Lane = seed well & truly laid.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i still thought the episode itself was pretty good. And i agree they did lay a few seeds for perry could come in and be editor next season. now it would be great if they did get michael and/or annette to return for an episode. Now its probably not to likely but i think we could be lucky with maybe at least 2 episodes for either of them returning.

i would like more, but i know both are busy with music/theater stuff so it would have to all be worked out in advance to get them in more episodes. But i think we could get lucky for them to at least show up in 200th(4th episode of the season) and the likely series finale. Then lets say if we get lucky for 1 or two more episodes would be nice. I made the point before we could get perry becoming editor and we just dont see him that often(counting on scheduling and all that).

And when we cant see him he just gets mentioned, or we do episodes not invovling the daily planet and all that. Heck like friday's episode stern was mentioned and we didnt see him, they can do that for perry too. As for martha knowing stuff as i and other said she was working with john jones from what we were told in checkmate episodes, so she probably learned more through him.

 

[spawnjack01]

I'm trying to be subtle

t: touche

But what B said.

 

[Superfreak]

yea i still thought the episode itself was pretty good. And i agree they did lay a few seeds for perry could come in and be editor next season. now it would be great if they did get michael and/or annette to return for an episode. Now its probably not to likely but i think we could be lucky with maybe at least 2 episodes for either of them returning.

i would like more, but i know both are busy with music/theater stuff so it would have to all be worked out in advance to get them in more episodes. But i think we could get lucky for them to at least show up in 200th(4th episode of the season) and the likely series finale. Then lets say if we get lucky for 1 or two more episodes would be nice. I made the point before we could get perry becoming editor and we just dont see him that often(counting on scheduling and all that).

And when we cant see him he just gets mentioned, or we do episodes not invovling the daily planet and all that. Heck like friday's episode stern was mentioned and we didnt see him, they can do that for perry too. As for martha knowing stuff as i and other said she was working with john jones from what we were told in checkmate episodes, so she probably learned more through him.

I'm down for that. Just on the thought of the daily planet, it would also be nice to see both Lois and Clark getting out of the basement.

 

[spawnjack01]

Tess owns the DP, Stern is the editor.

Ok. Btw. is she on the run from the law, or just from the ultra-secret Checkmate? If she's an outlaw and she owns it through Luthercorp, wouldn't Oliver be close to running it instead?

I have to be honest here. I hated the synopsis of Martha and Perry being an item. But I was so surprised with the episode. I think they handled it beautiful the way they explained just how hard Johnathan's death had been on her. That she had such a hard time just being on the farm because of it.
That is such a better explanation then her leaving for Washington just for the heck of it.
And why would she be dating someone like Perry I asked myself before seeing the episode. She explained to Clark he made her laugh... I could see Perry doing that. Good for her.

Clark's save catching the sign with his back against the public didn't hurt the ep either. I really liked how he let Lois take care of herself and Perry. He would never have done that with Lana.
That was one of the best Superman-like scenes I can remember on the show.

 

[LostSon88]

They always do that as well as the annoying pop culture references that Chloe spouts out. Ever since season 1 that has been the most annoying thing for me.

Yep...I mean for ONCE, can Chloe answer one of Clarks question without resorting to some lame pop-culture way of explaining things.

People do NOT talk like that.

 

[B]

Yep...I mean for ONCE, can Chloe answer one of Clarks question without resorting to some lame pop-culture way of explaining things.

People do NOT talk like that.

I ****in hate that as well..

I also hate how she is some sort of uber hacker & can get the answers to life on a computer instantly.. Willow used to do it on Buffy as well, fair enough once or twice is ok but it is e..v..e..r..y fecking week.

I ALSO hate how she comes off with famous Superman 'catchphrases' that where never really meant to be spoken, more just appear in a newspaper headline.. like "The Man of Steel" "Faster than a speeding bullet" etc etc when she says them they sound really lame & for 50% of them they sound un-cool.. when really they aren't.

 

[Prison Mike]

Yeah... It's not like she's been raising one or anything...

she's been raising Clark as a human...not a Kryptonian. Half the time, Clark doesn't even know what the hell is going on...

 

[lespaul59]

she's been raising Clark as a human...not a Kryptonian. Half the time, Clark doesn't even know what the hell is going on...

Like how did she know what would happen to Clark if he uses the Book of Rao to get rid of the Kandorians? It's another one of those things that comes off as everybody is a step a head of Clark. Sometimes the way they write things on SV gets more confusing the more you try to pick it apart insted of just going with the flow. It's like if you come up with an answer for one thing you get two more questions about something else. I actually liked the episode but I also felt it could have been placed at least an episode or two earlier. I also agree that it felt a lot like S1 and 2 while at the same time being a really good mix of the first few seasons of SV with the last two or three. And I really think the show should try and continue using the same tone that this episode had.

 

[spawnjack01]

she's been raising Clark as a human...not a Kryptonian. Half the time, Clark doesn't even know what the hell is going on...

No. She has been raising a Kryptonian trough the only way any one of us on earth can: with our customs. She's seen, heard and experienced enough during those years, so if she picks up a trail in Washington that seems connected to her son and his origin, it only adds to her character and intellect to do something about it.
The knowledge about Kendorians and the Book of Rao she obviously gained through both her job and Clark.
Let's face it, Clark and Martha must have had alot of conversations in offscreenville since she left the series. Both on telephone and him speeding off to Washington now and then, just to say hello.

Human's come into the series all the time in Smallville, knowing way to much for any logical reason. That is stupid.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Just goes to show there's NOTHING more dangerous than a mother protecting her child.