9.21 - Hostage - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Superfreak]

No. She has been raising a Kryptonian trough the only way any one of us on earth can: with our customs. She's seen, heard and experienced enough during those years, so if she picks up a trail in Washington that seems connected to her son and his origin, it only adds to her character and intellect to do something about it.
The knowledge about Kendorians and the Book of Rao she obviously gained through both her job and Clark.
Let's face it, Clark and Martha must have had alot of conversations in offscreenville since she left the series. Both on telephone and him speeding off to Washington now and then, just to say hello.

Human's come into the series all the time in Smallville, knowing way to much for any logical reason. That is stupid.

1)no, Clark is physically Kryptonian, with a human psychology. She is raising a human

2)'offscreenville' doesn't count for anything. It's a place that both writers and apologist fans use to explain those things which the show has failed to.

 

[spawnjack01]

1)no, Clark is physically Kryptonian, with a human psychology. She is raising a human

2)'offscreenville' doesn't count for anything. It's a place that both writers and apologist fans use to explain those things which the show has failed to.

Sorry. I don't agree with you.

They may have raised him as a human, but every major event since they took Clark in has been Kryptonian based. From Martha's pregnancy to Johnathan's death. Clark's mind may be human, but they as a family has been forced to deal with more Kryptonian matters then anyone else (humans on earth that is).

Though the word "offscreenville" is only a play of words made up by the fans, it doesn't change the fact that things has always happened offscreen. In every movie, series, book, play or comicbook that doesn't have one long coherent timespan.
If we were to in the least believe in these characters, it is a fundamental fact that between the scenes these character do grap a bite to eat, use the toilet and keep in touch with their loved ones now and then.

Complete story arcs comming from nowhere is a bit farfetched, but Clark keeping in touch with his mother is indisputable.

 

[Superfreak]

Sorry. I don't agree with you.

They may have raised him as a human, but every major event since they took Clark in has been Kryptonian based. From Martha's pregnancy to Johnathan's death. Clark's mind may be human, but they as a family has been forced to deal with more Kryptonian matters then anyone else (humans on earth that is).

Though the word "offscreenville" is only a play of words made up by the fans, it doesn't change the fact that things has always happened offscreen. In every movie, series, book, play or comicbook that doesn't have one long coherent timespan.
If we were to in the least believe in these characters, it is a fundamental fact that between the scenes these character do grap a bite to eat, use the toilet and keep in touch with their loved ones now and then.

Complete story arcs comming from nowhere is a bit farfetched, but Clark keeping in touch with his mother is indisputable.

listen, I don't want to debate the fundamental construction of television with you... so please stop explaining the most simple concepts that a 2 year old child would know.

what I'm saying, is that offscreen is a pathetic excuse for pretty much anything. It is used to fill in blanks... those blanks that shouldn't exist, if the show was complete. This is TV, not a game of madlibs.

the truth is I try to look at it academically: as in, if I were to write an essay on smallville, I would not be able to cite 'off screen ville' because it didn't actually happen. The only material is that which they deliver, everthing else is just filled in blanks with personal opinions and perspectives.




as for Clark: Human psychology in a kryptonian body. He is human in all respects, except his body, and the things it allows him to do and sense. It is not until the fortress that Clark's psychology begins to move in any kryptonian direction. Clark's origin was a total mystery(other than a busted up spaceship) up until he met with Swann. But he is raised as human, and has been raised as a human.

 

[spawnjack01]

listen, I don't want to debate the fundamental construction of television with you... so please stop explaining the most simple concepts that a 2 year old child would know.

what I'm saying, is that offscreen is a pathetic excuse for pretty much anything. It is used to fill in blanks... those blanks that shouldn't exist, if the show was complete. This is TV, not a game of madlibs.

the truth is I try to look at it academically: as in, if I were to write an essay on smallville, I would not be able to cite 'off screen ville' because it didn't actually happen. The only material is that which they deliver, everthing else is just filled in blanks with personal opinions and perspectives.

Then don't act like it needs to be explained.

All I'm saying is that is isn't that far of a stretch to think Clark and Martha keep in touch with one another. That is all I'm saying.
In my case it's not even a matter up for interpretation. Clark and Martha very clearly discussed things they've talked about offscreen. Like him working at the Planet and even about helping his people. So just by Clark she is pretty much up to speed about the Kandorians.

I hate it when the writers do retcons and fill in blanks that doesn't remotely make sence. (I think Lional knowing Clark's secret all along is the worst one. Seriously, don't they know networks airs reruns?) I'm not defending that at all.

I agree with you about Clarks human psychology, but what I'm referring to is the events that has occured throughout their life as a family.

Of course Matha isn't an expert, only the Kandorians and a handfull of scientists like Dr. Swann would be. But to compare with someone like Tess, who just came out of nowhere and seems to have known more and more her whole life by every episode, Martha at least has a past dealing with Kryptonian meddling.

 

[elgaz]

So-so episode for me.

Liked -
- The table dinner scene with Clark, Lois, Martha and Perry. Interesting dynamics
- Clark catching the sign in front of the crowd and his facial expression - very Superman-like
- Clark in general throughout the episode, working out who the Red Queen was by himself ..... we need to see more of this. Superman is not just raw muscle power, he's hugely intelligent too.
- Chloe admitting her faults
- Martha and Perry appearing again

Didn't like -
- The contrived explanation for who the Red Queen was, and her motivations
- Lois/Perry's 'alliance' - it really amounted to nothing, yet seemed like a life changing event to Lois.
- The Tess dream scenes - they were very out of sync with the rest of the episode

 

[Webhead2006]

I'm down for that. Just on the thought of the daily planet, it would also be nice to see both Lois and Clark getting out of the basement.

Oh defiantely i would love to see them get out of the basement floor. Or at least alter the darn set and have it be an upper floor for them to be working at. But we are probably not going to see that to the end of the show.

As for tess/dp she really wasnt the owner per say luthorcorp owns the building and all that. But she was just running it as editor. And as we seen stern is the publisher and they are looking for new chief editor position and all that.

As for martha knowing the book stuff. I am still going with john jones gave her some insights that he likely knew about. Since he was friends with jorel from what we been told in the past. Then also we know john was working with the red queen. Sure its a bit out there, but hey this is a scifi show about aliens on earth and all that.

 

[Prison Mike]

No. She has been raising a Kryptonian trough the only way any one of us on earth can: with our customs. She's seen, heard and experienced enough during those years, so if she picks up a trail in Washington that seems connected to her son and his origin, it only adds to her character and intellect to do something about it.
The knowledge about Kendorians and the Book of Rao she obviously gained through both her job and Clark.
Let's face it, Clark and Martha must have had alot of conversations in offscreenville since she left the series. Both on telephone and him speeding off to Washington now and then, just to say hello.

Human's come into the series all the time in Smallville, knowing way to much for any logical reason. That is stupid.

How on Earth would Martha know what the Book of Rao does to Clark? How would she have learned all that being a Senator? Clark knows more about his Kryptonian heritage (thanks to the information download in the earlier seasons and his training at the FOS) but even he didn't know he could get sucked into another dimension...yet Martha knew. And I don't buy the excuse "well they must have talked about it off screen...". You and I both know that's B.S. and just lazy writing.

 

[spawnjack01]

How would anyone know about it except the Kandorians?
The whole Checkmate/Red Queen knowing all things Kryptonian is stupid and taken from nowhere. The Red Queen knowing about the book of rao is stupid whoever it would end up being.

 

[Prison Mike]

Exactly...which is why I hated it. They shouldn't have done the Red Queen storyline to begin with let alone having Martha being the Red Queen.

 

[spawnjack01]

Now that we can agree upon!!

 

[HoodedAvenger12]

How on Earth would Martha know what the Book of Rao does to Clark? How would she have learned all that being a Senator? Clark knows more about his Kryptonian heritage (thanks to the information download in the earlier seasons and his training at the FOS) but even he didn't know he could get sucked into another dimension...yet Martha knew. And I don't buy the excuse "well they must have talked about it off screen...". You and I both know that's B.S. and just lazy writing.

Well Martian Manhunter was working for Martha in Checkmate, so maybe he told her what the Book of Rao can do. I mean he used to be a bounty hunter for Jor-El, so I'm sure he would know.

 

[Prison Mike]

The fact that we have to assume things means the writing sucks...

 

[Webhead2006]

well mike as others have pointed out we know from checkmate episode that john jones was working with someone ie the red queen. So he has probably informed martha on certain things.

 

[Superfreak]

Then don't act like it needs to be explained.

it doesn't need to be... you just seem to think that the 'off screen' is where things happen... mentioning that something happens, is not showing it. This is TV, a visual medium. If it doesn't happen on screen, it never happened, except in your imagination.

even if it's logical to assume these 'things' are happening off screen, it doesn't mean they are happening.

ie. in the latest epi, Clark states that him and Martha had talked a bunch on the phone. That is just yaya writer nonsense to make the cameo make sense, instead of using just a little bit of foresight, they could have made an actual phonecall between the two earlier in the season (infact, there are 1 or 2 episodes that could have been completely devoted to a call between mother and son, (ie. the Lois/Clark/Chloe/Oliver date episode was 42 minutes of episode time which could have been used otherwise).



again, I'm not saying that this takes away from this individual episode, which, IMO, is one of the better episodes of Smallville, and it didn't even need action. It's just the concept of off screen elements of the story, which I feel are extremely poor form for a visual medium.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Exactly...which is why I hated it. They shouldn't have done the Red Queen storyline to begin with let alone having Martha being the Red Queen.

It seemed like Martha came out of thin air with being the Red Queen. I honestly didn't care for that either. I was happy to see her again, though. Kinda brought back some of memories from the earlier episodes of Smallville.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

i think its silly to assume that clark and martha havent spoken at all except when they actually show it to us.

besides, they have shown him on the phone with her a few times. so with those, im sure its safe to assume that there are more where those came from...

 

[Eros]

Yep...I mean for ONCE, can Chloe answer one of Clarks question without resorting to some lame pop-culture way of explaining things.

People do NOT talk like that.

Lois does the exact same thing dude, she does it every time she opens her mouth. i mean I cant remember one sentence where she didnt make one or 2 Pop cultrue refrences.

 

[Prison Mike]

this show will seem really outdated if they keep using pop culture references.

And they also have to stop using references to Superman's future.

 

[Webhead2006]

well we do know he has been doing it, cause martha has been mentioned a few times in the past few yrs, also in the first timeline in infamous he was talking to martha on the phone. so we know it happens between those two. Plus there is always things going on within the show world we just dont see every single moment in these character lifes.

 

[LostSon88]

Lois does the exact same thing dude, she does it every time she opens her mouth. i mean I cant remember one sentence where she didnt make one or 2 Pop cultrue refrences.

True, but not to the extent that Chloe does. Its like Chloe can't EVER reply with a straight answer...she just has to make it all clever.

Lois does this as well but like I said not to the extent of her cousin.

 

[lespaul59]

it doesn't need to be... you just seem to think that the 'off screen' is where things happen... mentioning that something happens, is not showing it. This is TV, a visual medium. If it doesn't happen on screen, it never happened, except in your imagination.

even if it's logical to assume these 'things' are happening off screen, it doesn't mean they are happening.

ie. in the latest epi, Clark states that him and Martha had talked a bunch on the phone. That is just yaya writer nonsense to make the cameo make sense, instead of using just a little bit of foresight, they could have made an actual phonecall between the two earlier in the season (infact, there are 1 or 2 episodes that could have been completely devoted to a call between mother and son, (ie. the Lois/Clark/Chloe/Oliver date episode was 42 minutes of episode time which could have been used otherwise).



again, I'm not saying that this takes away from this individual episode, which, IMO, is one of the better episodes of Smallville, and it didn't even need action. It's just the concept of off screen elements of the story, which I feel are extremely poor form for a visual medium.

I agree, I think SV has come to rely on offscreanville to much. And it seems like they're getting worse. I'm fine with it if it doesn't really have anything to do with the story like say the Queen Industy satillites being the only working satillites during Dark Thursday(S6).While I think this should have been explained, I'm fine that it wasn't because it never factored in to the story line other than getting the pictures of the Phantoms. But this year it just seems like story details happen in offscreanville. I also wasn't fond of MArtha being the Red Queen but it was done way better than SuperLana in my opinion. Martha being the RQ wasn't really out of character when you look back at how she tried to protect Clark compaired to Jonathan. But it also brings up another fault SV seems to have( in my opinion) and that is that they seem to put characters in story lines that aren't really needed to make them seem more important. I personaly think this started with LAna in S2 with the Henry Small story line that seem to be compleatly forgotten about after S2.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea darn the offscreen world of the show lol.

 

[blksuperman2]

Decent Episode. Seeing Annette O'toole again brought back memories of when I really loved this show. I find myself just tolerating it now. Martha being the RQ was a surprised. So was the fact that Clark figured it out on his own. They actually let this guy use his brain. Bravo. Lois wanting to break up because she got fired was just silly to me. I'd also like to know how Martha was able to thwrat a whole Army of Superspeeding, flying alien soliders? ??? Staying ahead of 1 or 2 would be near impossible but, 20+, seriously?

 

[CLARKY]

The episode was neat. It was so nice to see Anette O'toole again! I would not mind seeing her popping from time to time. Fun to see Perry too, I have the impression the actor is right for the role.
I think T.Welling acting is better, more subtle and more natural, more personal too surely.
And E.Durance .... I was almost crying when she talked at the table. What a beautiful character!

... ... ... I'm a man, but ... God, how handsome Superman was when he was on the roof watching Lois and Perry!

 

[Webhead2006]

yea it would be great if anette or michael returned again next season. in alot of interviews they did for the episode they said they both would love to return and its all about the producers/writeres and working with their schedules. i would love for at least 2 appearances would be nice.