A discussion about the Heroic Nature of the Hulk

[Shockdingo]

Hercules and the others talk to the womann and she explains that they were stuck in traffic so Bruce Banner turned into the Hulk to get her to the ER in time. Hercules says, "Well, if that's what he was trying to do why didn't he just say so?" She looks at him, looking super pissed, and says, "Did you ASK?"

Hulk isn't a villain. End of story.

I love moments like that, it furth goes to show that he's misunderstood and even the "upstanding heroes" can be guilty of misjudging, hence them being at fault for being the instigators.

 

[Canadian Rider]

Okay. So if he is a Slave to his anger ... and never changes does that matter?

I am thinking that if as has been suggested he is a force of nature, at the mercy of the Rage that is his "creator" ... does it matter if he fights against that?

 

[Mad Bull]

Hey, CR. Just thought you'd like to know that I saw GR against my better judgement (it was free) and was pleasantly surprised. It was quite a bit better than I thought it'd be.

And to more clearly understand your question, fights against what?

 

[Mr. Green]

Hulk is not a slave to his anger, he IS anger. He is the physical manifestation of Banner's repressed rage. A lot of that rage comes from Banner's childhood so he is kind of like an angry child at heart.

And as far as that "using a woman as a shield" thing is concerned, that's bad writing. It happens. I know, I know, it happened and nothing can change that... But anyone here can tell you that it was extremely out of character for the Hulk to do something like that.

And as for knocking down buildings, Hulk's a superhero who battles supervillains. The villains Hulk fights are some of the heaviest hitters in the MU, and the same goes for Hulk. There is bound to be collateral damage. And the same can be said of any superhero (Iron Man, Sentry, Thor) who fights huge threats.

An example of this can be found in the beginning of Thor: Blood Oath, where after the fight between Thor and the Absorbing man ends, there are many people injured and buildings are destroyed.

I hope this helps, but in the end it's going to be a lot more useful to just read Hulk comics to understand the character. Anything written by Peter David is going to be great for understanding the psychological aspect of Hulk. The Planet Hulk story is awesome for understanding the Hero in the Hulk.

 

[Mad Bull]

By the way, CR, speaking of collateral damage, I saw a lot of property damage in GR's movie...

 

[Canadian Rider]

Yes.

A lot more than the comics and I was thinking of you and this conversation when I saw it.

I was watching Godzilla clips on Youtube and he takes collateral damage to a whole new level!

I guess the question is "The Hulk" fighting against the Rage. Some say the Hulk and Banner are two different parts of the same person; others two different people.

Your guys' take?

 

[Mad Bull]

I'm kinda torn on that one. Hulk was supposed to have already been existing in Banner's psyche and the Gamma radiation unleashed him. I think when it comes down to it, I consider them two separate entities. Especially since, in Hulk: The End, Banner ends up dying and Hulk still remains.

Not canon, but about as close as we're ever going to get.

 

[Canadian Rider]

Ok. So the hulk is a seperate entity "within" banner's mind but not controlled by Banner.

So is Banner responsible for how the Hulk acts/reacts as a force of nature then?

Savage Hulk I would say no ... but I wonder. Your thoughts?

 

[Mad Bull]

I know that Banner works as a kind of mental restraint, keeping Hulk's anger in relative check via his mental influence. That's why Hulk without Banner's influence is always so crazy strong.

Does he directly influence Hulk's behavior? Methinks not.

 

[Canadian Rider]

Okay.

So the Hulk is a seperate thinking "being."

Could he not be something other than who/what he is?

Thanks MB. It's nice to dialogue.

 

[Mad Bull]

Could he not be something other than who/what he is?

Not sure I understand you. Clarify?

And you're welcome. Gotta pick it up tomorrow, though. I'm headin' out. Where you been?

 

[Canadian Rider]

Working and being super busy ...

Okay. So if the Hulk is a seperate entity can he make his own choices?

That is where I was going ... PS -- GR 12 and 13 somehow play into WWH ... so maybe Dac and I get that rematch

 

[Mad Bull]

Lol, hey! I wanna see Hulk pound GR just as badly as the next guy!

As to your question, yeah, I think the Hulk makes his own choices when he is manifest. He wouldn't be doing what he does if Banner was in complete control. I maintain, though, that Banner does influence his actions.

 

[Canadian Rider]

Okay.

So.

If Hulk can make decisions ... can he decide not to wreak vengenance? Can he choose not to get "tricked" into fights etc.

I know that makes for poor stories but I was wondering if he is capable of that or do they draw a distinction in your mind that disallows him from "choosing" to fight to change?

 

[Mad Bull]

You mean can Banner keep from turning into Hulk if he wants to?

 

[Canadian Rider]

not so much ...

I am thinking about while Banner is changed into the hulk.

IF the hulk is now a strategist and coming in WWH for his vengeance, does it matter if he fights to be the "better" person or is he even capable of that.

Is his nature, as a "force" of nature such that he will "destroy" or attack the heroes that sent him away and he can't stop himself?

Banner can't stop him and he can't stop himself?

 

[Mad Bull]

He is, more often than not, ruled by emotion. The Illuminati banished him from his home, completely betrayed him. If a normal person would burn for revenge, how much more so the Incredible Hulk! (A being that draws his strength from emotions, especially anger.)

 

[Canadian Rider]

That is perhaps the most eloquent and thoughtful way I have heard him explained.

A Conan type personality but more powerful and vengeful?

Vengeance can come from hate, so perhaps he is an entity ruled by that as well?

I guess my question began in a search to Understand the hulk and his nature. How he thinks and what makes up his character.

He is a force of nature. A being that is ruled by Anger and unable to change that?

So he is neither hero nor Villain. He is not truly an anti-hero in that he is held in bondage to his nature.

As Banner is stuck with the Hulk within him, perhaps the Hulk cannot change who he is either? IF he wanted to in any event, perhaps he cannot be other than what he is.

He cannot reason at the same level as Wolverine who we discussed earlier as one fighting against the "animal" within?

 

[Mad Bull]

Yeah, I think Hulk's situation is different. Hulk IS the animal within.

 

[Canadian Rider]

Well said.

He is the animal.

Is he therefore not responsible for his actions then?

 

[Toby_Temple]

IMO, no. His actions are direct results of other people's actions.

 

[Canadian Rider]

So he is not control of his reactions.

He is not in "control" of himself.

Interesting.

Any other Hulk fans to weigh in?

 

[Mad Bull]

Any other Hulk fans to weigh in?

I guess not. I'd be interested to see what other fans had to say.

 

[Canadian Rider]

Apparently they don't want to discuss this idea as much as slag me in other threads about not knowing the character

Oh Well. I was hoping to get a wide range of opinions but I appreciate you taking the time MB.

Props to you green man.

 

[Mad Bull]

Lol, anytime. I wish I knew more. Would you believe I only own 2 Hulk comics?