A discussion about the Heroic Nature of the Hulk

[ibsisomis]

Yes. This is exactly a perfect way to discribe Hulk. You want to read a superhero book, go read superman (see under my name). You want to read a book about the duality of man and his constant inner struggle with his inner beast (which we all have in a way). Read Hulk.

 

[Canadian Rider]

So he is neither Hero nor Villain.

He struggles within himself but does not change. The draw for you as a reader is that he seeks not to change but solitude and therein is a conflict as those around him do not seek to understand him.

As for Planet Hulk ... I am planning to pick it up this week.

Thank you all for a great conversation.

I appreciate your thoughts.

He is not an anti-hero but also not a hero in the classic sense.

Interesting.

 

[Mad Bull]

The Hulk is awesome. This should be apparent by now,

 

[Willowhugger]

So he is neither Hero nor Villain.

He struggles within himself but does not change. The draw for you as a reader is that he seeks not to change but solitude and therein is a conflict as those around him do not seek to understand him.

As for Planet Hulk ... I am planning to pick it up this week.

Thank you all for a great conversation.

I appreciate your thoughts.

He is not an anti-hero but also not a hero in the classic sense.

Interesting.

Well, barring the "Professor" Hulk (that no one really liked),
the biggest irony of Bruce Banner is the fact that he's just as much a mask as any of the other personalities within him. Being "cured" is like Bruce Wayne being cured of Batman. The pleasant and nebbish face of him isn't the real person anymore than the Hulk.

Planet Hulk is an interesting case where the Hulk is marooned on a planet where he's not viewed as a monster but becoming Bruce Banner would probably kill him. The savagery there is enough that the Hulk is NORMAL while Bruce is intolerable weakness that could get him killed....

Yet he needs the intelligence of Bruce too.

He's a fun character study that can be treated many ways.

* The Gentle Giant
* The Unjustly persecuted Frankenstein
* The Strange Case of Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde
* The reality that the Barbarian Within may be just as useful as civilized man.

It takes a pretty good writer to grasp any of the issues the Hulk can be used to explore. He's like Superman and Batman in that respect, he's dripping with psychological subtext (though leans much more to Bats and Freud than Supes and Jung)

 

[Canadian Rider]

An excellent post Willow.

My thanks.

I see now the way the Hulk is the side of Banner that exists to create the protaganist -- he is the hero in that sense that he exists out of the Rage of Banner, but is more than simply rage or a creation of anger but rather the warrior/giant that slumbers within us all that waits for the moment that will allow the inner creature to be revealed.

So then, the Hulk is not simply a rage beast, but rather a way for us to witness the effects of the untamed nature within each of us that can run amok.

He (the Hulk) when released is not then to be looked upon as capable of choosing a heroic or evil path, but rather reacts to what he sees.

His actions are his reactions and although he can access Banner for his intelligence, he is not confined by the narrow parameters of a "normal" individual.

Very cool.

I like the analogy with Batman as I have always enjoyed the interplay between Bruce and Batman as to who the "real" person is.

Thank you for a great post.

I would ask then if Banner is as simple as the "Bruce Wayne" Persona then? Is he simply there or is there more to him as well??

 

[Mad Bull]

I think banner is complex, as well. Without his inner turmoil the Hulk(s) may not have come into existence. His father's influence had a lot to do with that, too. IMO, Hulk and Banner are both pretty complex, as is their relationship.

 

[November Rain]

what do you all think the grey hulk is a manifestation of then all you peeps?

 

[Mad Bull]

As I understood it, Gray was the amalgamation of Banner's darker side. Vengeful thoughts, secret desires, that kind of thing.

 

[Shockdingo]

Yea, I see the grey hulk as what Banner wanted to indulge in but was afraid to.
Fixit had: the fear and respect of others, he could engage in all the vices of Las Vegas, he could be vain and afford the best suits, he was spoken of like a legend, he had it all without having to balance things; with being humble or kind or "the nice guy."

 

[Mr. Green]

Grey Hulk is the wreckless teenager within Bruce who acts on impulse. That's how PAD and Jenkins wrote him.

 

[Willowhugger]

Basically, Bruce Banner is the attempt to avoid conflict in life at all costs. He's a mask like Bruce wayne but it was the persona that the real Bruce Banner retreated into. Batman was the one that Bruce retreated into. A pit that it took a Gamma Bomb to release the real feelings underneath from.

Ultimately, the Hulk was empowering to Bruce Banner and it wouldn't have been such a marauding creature if it wasn't driven by the anger inside him. Ironically, we see that there IS a balance between them but no matter how close Bruce/Hulk comes to this balance....

The two never quite work it out. Hulk is too tempermental to fight into normal society but can't escape his longing for it.

 

[Canadian Rider]

He is the Monster of Frankenstein then (albeit at a much higher level of power and rage.)

He longs for what he can't have; existence within society.

Banner cannot be without the Hulk as that is his expression of Rage.

Cool dialogue fellows ...

Thank you.

So the different versions of the Hulk suit different temperaments and different needs that Banner has ...

 

[Shockdingo]

Yup, all of the hulks are parts of banner. I always found that interesting and compelling, hopefully that issue, combined with his unstable mind due to abuse, will be covered in future movies.

 

[Willowhugger]

Yeah, the faces of the real Bruce Banner are...

Bruce Banner: Shy, introverted, nebbish geek that doesn't offend anyone.

Green Hulk: The suppressed anger, rage, and pain from his childhood onwards. Hasn't developed mentally since the time Banner's father murdered his mother.

Gray Hulk: Unrestricted lust, greed, and ID that the Hulk brings out. Basically, the wild teenage years that Bruce Banner never got to enjoy.

Professor Hulk/WWH: The Hulk whenever Bruce finally gets his **** together. It's intelligent but savage. A merciless killer but a cunning warrior. Possessed of a crude code of honor and capable of (limited) restraint but a bon vivant about life. Gentle to friends, ruthless to enemies. This is the person Bruce Banner WANTS to be and probably would have grown up to be like. Oddly, its somewhat like She-Hulk in that the Hulk can be an idealized person.

This Hulk always ends up falling to pieces because someone murders someone Banner loves, the government turns against him, or something else shatters his calm.

 

[Canadian Rider]

Wow Willow.

That is excellent. That is concise yet very complete.

Thank you.

I think I need to print that out ...

 

[atreestump]

Hulk and Banner are not the same person.

MPD = Multiple Personality Disorder. That's what Banner has. One cannot control the other.

Do you want to understand the Hulk? Check out Giant Size Hulk #1 (it came out in June or July or something). Also check out Hulk #100 (this came out a few months ago). You really just have to read some Hulk to truly understand him.

Anyway, here's a story to Help that comes from Giant Size Hulk #1:

The Champions (a team consisting of Ghost Rider, Hercules, Black Widow, and some others) see Hulk jumping across the city carrying a car. They attack him, trying to stop him. They all beat up on him but they don't bring him down because he just swats them away and keeps going. The entire time he doesn't drop the car. He finally stops at a hospital and takes a girl out of the car and gets a doctor. She had appendicitus and would have died if he was five minutes later. Hulk jumps away and the Champions let him go.

Hercules and the others talk to the womann and she explains that they were stuck in traffic so Bruce Banner turned into the Hulk to get her to the ER in time. Hercules says, "Well, if that's what he was trying to do why didn't he just say so?" She looks at him, looking super pissed, and says, "Did you ASK?"

And that's how it is a lot of the time. If you read those two comics you will understand a LOT more about the character.

Hulk isn't a villain. End of story.

Bra-friggin-vo man that is beautiful workmanship right there. I applaud you.

 

[Mr. Green]

Thanks, Stump. I appreciate the kind words.

Reading Planet Hulk will answer all of your questions in a way that we can't, Rider. This was in the last issue of Planet Hulk!

...we weren't just telling a great sci-fi action story. We were building an emotional epic that confronted the question of whetere a person who gives himself over to violent wrath, no matter how justified, is a hero -- or a monster.

We love the Hulk because he does what we wish we could do -- when faced with injustice or stupidity, he smashes. That's unacceptable behavior here on Earth. But "Planet Hulk" put our hero on a savage world where his rage and strength were virtues, where he just might find a place, a community, even a queen... But the terrible beauty of the story -- that kernel of truth that great writers from Stan Lee to Bill Mantlo to Peter David have bequeathed us -- is that rage, no matter how justified, always has a price.

The entire 14 issue story arc is centered around your very question!

 

[Canadian Rider]

Thanks so much guys. I will go get the arc.

Have a great easter holiday. Best wishes to you and yours and I trust you will all have a safe weekend.

Cr.

 

[Shockdingo]

I highly reccomend planet hulk dude, it's great, and happy easter to you too dude!