After Nolan's BATMAN trilogy... - Part 1

[The Guard]

I'd pretty much like to see a Batman franchise that honors the comic mythology and nature of the character a bit more. And maybe even a franchise thats a bit more serious and studious than Nolan's at the same time.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I'd pretty much like to see a Batman franchise that honors the comic mythology and nature of the character a bit more. And maybe even a franchise thats a bit more serious and studious than Nolan's at the same time.

Frankly, I saw TDKR and I feel like the character motivations are pretty unintelligible. I feel that way about a lot of Nolan's films. Almost like the complexity of plot and twists are favored over making the characters seem real. I see a lot of people falsely equate his dialogue to something Shakespearian, completely forgetting that Shakespeare was about as colloquial as they come, and just because people don't speak like that anymore doesn't mean that every utterance of Shakespeare is some profound point. In fact much of it's kind of perverted humor, some not to far afield of Michael Bay.

I felt like many who think TDKR is the best thing since sliced bread forget that just because someone cries every five minutes doesn't make a movie brilliant. The plot holes and character misfires in TDKR make TDK look tame by comparison.

TDKR was, I feel, a little more fun in a dark way. They stopped trying to make every character just some dude you'd meet on the street, and stopped trying to make every gadget or villain "explainable".

[BLACKOUT]The Football stadium sequence is ridiculous for example. Also Bane and company were about as close to Aliens as human life forms are gonna get. So, I think as far as action goes, while the movie is overly long, he delivered the most "pow" and "zing" in TDKR.[/BLACKOUT]

To me TDKR is a deadpanned Transformers: Dark of the Moon, which makes sense considering Nolan cites Bay as a film maker he admires (don't shoot the messenger on that one). I think all in all that's better. In fact, I don't know if the tone of TDKR needs to be messed with too much, especially since this one is more "trippy" and "out there" with being "comic booky". Ironically, if it wasn't a massive continuity violation, the whole movie could've looked exactly the comic without really changing anything.

I think some good suggestions I've seen is:

Bill Hader for the Joker: the next guy should strive to bring someone at least darkly comedic to the cast. Hader is the guy.

My own personal suggestion would be since TDKR pushed it firmly into the realm of fantastic, there really is no need to "ground" it anymore. I could almost envision Mr. Freeze, Clayface or even Superman existing in TDKR's world.

I'd definitely forget the continuity though.

Batman needs to [BLACKOUT]stay Batman and not really waver on that.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Donnie Darko]

You know what I just really realized, after posting that long comment the other day about what I want from the next Bat-series?

I don't want another Bat movie. Not for a long time. We just got the definitive Batman movie trilogy, and there are so many other DC characters to explore, so let's drop Batman for a while. Let's concentrate on other characters, like making the current Superman films work, or Wonder Woman, Flash, etc.

The only place I want to see Batman for the next decade is a stand-alone Justice League film (I was originally against the idea, but since DC hasn't established a shared universe, and the way DKR ended, just make Justice League its own thing, if you want to make it.

 

[Destructus86]

Besides being more true to the comic...there is one aspect I really want to see. In Nolan's films it was about Wayne and his journey to becoming Batman...but it's reversed in the comics. At least to me...it seems that it's Batman who is wrestling with his "mask" known as Bruce Wayne

 

[AvengeME]

The Catwoman spinoff does sound kinda appealing though. Maybe Selina steals the Batpod, or a prototype, explaining why she was so good at riding that thing. Maybe Batman cameos in a secret, undocumented by the public scene.

 

[metaphysician]

You know what I just really realized, after posting that long comment the other day about what I want from the next Bat-series?

I don't want another Bat movie. Not for a long time. We just got the definitive Batman movie trilogy, and there are so many other DC characters to explore, so let's drop Batman for a while. Let's concentrate on other characters, like making the current Superman films work, or Wonder Woman, Flash, etc.

The only place I want to see Batman for the next decade is a stand-alone Justice League film (I was originally against the idea, but since DC hasn't established a shared universe, and the way DKR ended, just make Justice League its own thing, if you want to make it.

While you are likely right on many levels, its just not going to happen. There is no way WB is going to leave Batman fallow for 10+ years. My money is on a rebooted Batman movie in 5 years, absolute max. I could see it happening as soon as 2015, if ( when ) JLA falls into preproduction hell.

 

[Travesty]

I just hope that the new one touches on the fact that Batman became Batman because of his parents. Not some slap in his face from his girlfriends, who he later wants to retire with. All those many many years of training, and he wanted to retire within the first year....and he did.

 

[Shikamaru]

I just hope that the new one touches on the fact that Batman became Batman because of his parents. Not some slap in his face from his girlfriends, who he later wants to retire with. All those many many years of training, and he wanted to retire within the first year....and he did.

Correction: He retires in his second year. TDK takes place a year after Batman Begins. But I get your point.

Excellent point. Him retiring is why I think TDKR fails as a sequel to TDK. I haven't seen TDKR yet (I'm seeing it this weekend) but I can tell from the information released that they pretty much undid Bruce's entire character arc in TDK. Originally, Bruce wanted to become Batman, clean up the city, and then put away the cape & cowl to hook up with Rachel. But by the end of TDK, he realizes this dream of his was just an illusion he wanted to be real one day and that Batman is who he truly is, who he forever has to be, and that there's no escape from it. And then TDKR comes along and completely destroys that entire character arc by saying he retired right after the night Harvey died and hasn't been Batman for 8 years. And Bruce had to realize what he already realized by the end of TDK. It is very contradicting and makes TDK completely pointless IMO. But then again, I haven't seen the movie yet so I might be wrong though I'm 99% sure that this opinion won't change. Plus, I talked with a lot of friends that saw it (all big Batman fans) and they all said that it undoes a lot of the stuff from TDK. In fact, I even heard a lot of non-comic book fans say the same thing. So I really doubt that my opinion of TDKR as a sequel will change. I might think it's a great movie but it won't consider it to be a good sequel.

 

[Donnie Darko]

While you are likely right on many levels, its just not going to happen. There is no way WB is going to leave Batman fallow for 10+ years. My money is on a rebooted Batman movie in 5 years, absolute max. I could see it happening as soon as 2015, if ( when ) JLA falls into preproduction hell.

But if you do it too quickly, you risk a lot of your fanbase just not going to see the movie, almost out of spite (like a lot of us, myself included, have done with Amazing Spider-Man).

 

[Travesty]

TASM suffered more from the fact that they did another origin story again. As long as the new Batman movie doesn't show Wayne traveling the world to train for the first half of the movie, I don't think people will have the same problems they did with TASM.

 

[Donnie Darko]

True. I hear the movie is good, but I just had no desire to see it, for that reason alone, really.

 

[rayc1971]

While you are likely right on many levels, its just not going to happen. There is no way WB is going to leave Batman fallow for 10+ years. My money is on a rebooted Batman movie in 5 years, absolute max. I could see it happening as soon as 2015, if ( when ) JLA falls into preproduction hell.

your right this is wb s cash cow they not gonna put it away for 10yrs.if man of steel bombs batman is all they have left i say 2015 or 2016 for sure there will be another batman flick.

 

[Kar]

I would build a trilogy around an established Batman raising Dick Grayson. "Dark Victory" basically. It can be done. The first movie could be about Bruce adopting the boy (boy, not 20 something but maybe even a small teenager). Dick is dark and scarred over the death of his parents which Batman looks into and discovers its related to a gang incident involving the Penguin (Tony Zucco owed him money but didn't pay up so killed his best acts). Dick somehow finds out Bruce discovered this and has been keeping it from him and he goes out to try and stop Penguin (using a ridiculous bravado). Have him don a costume modeled after his circus outfit after being inspired by Batman. He goes out trying to fight crime and gets his **** beat and Batman steps in to save him. Upon returning to the cave he reveals to him he's Bruce out of guilt and nurses Dick back to health while training him over the course of months (not to be a sidekick but just to get him fit). The time comes for Penguin to get taken down by Batman and Robin joins the fight against Batman's orders but does better this time (he doesn't exactly whoop ass but he holds his own). In the end Penguin is arrested in connection to the death of Dick Grayson's parents as well other crimes. Batman sees a fire in Dick and agress to train him more properly. The film ends. This could work if not handled as realistically as Nolan's films. Suspend belief a little.

Next film could be with Dick finally completing his training which took over a year or two (or three). He's older, more prepared yet still hot headed.He works with the Batman in secret (he's more in the shadows than Batman is) to avoid the slowly growing backlash from the public who is starting to believe he is endangering kids lives by having them work with him. This film could be more about Dick humanizing Batman and strengthening their growing father son relationship. Have the villain be maybe Hugo Strange as head Arkham psychiatrist who starts a campaign against the Batman deeming him psychotic (secretly he wants to study his behavior). He could use the Joker as a tool and the Joker kidnaps Robin and tortures and beats him (a la Jason Todd) and Batman rescues him last minute. The film ends with Batman standing over a beaten Robin. He feels as though he's failed him.

The next and final one of the trilogy takes place a few years after (maybe two or three). Dick Grayson has hung up being Robin because of Bruce's orders and their relationship is very rocky. Bruce is dark and broody as ever and Batman has become violent as well as hunted for endangering a youth's (Robin's) life. Have this film deal with Dick still training and trying to make up for his mistakes. In this film he's finally experienced. He grows up from Robin and becomes Nightwing and fights crime on his own. Him and Batman clash but eventually work together to take down all of Gotham's gangster supervillains who are starting a gang war (like a released Penguin, Black Mask, Two Face, etc. throw Catwoman in the mix and maybe Joker again with Harley Quinn).

 

[TheWatcher]

I want the movie to have a Arkham Asylum/City type feel. Realistic enough to believe but sci-fi enough to include Killer Croc,Clayface,etc. Not to mention this Batman would fit in to a Justice League movie.

 

[Catfield]

I'd like Batman to be left alone for a bit. I know some disagree, but I think it was about as perfect as you could hope for in a superhero movie trilogy. Nolan's Batman universe is sacricant. If there's to be a JL movie, have a new take on the character.

 

[Boom]

I'd pretty much like to see a Batman franchise that honors the comic mythology and nature of the character a bit more. And maybe even a franchise thats a bit more serious and studious than Nolan's at the same time.

This is probably the best way to put it, and I agree completely.

 

[Donnie Darko]

I'd like Batman to be left alone for a bit. I know some disagree, but I think it was about as perfect as you could hope for in a superhero movie trilogy. Nolan's Batman universe is sacricant. If there's to be a JL movie, have a new take on the character.

At first I had a list of all the things I wanted, which I posted a page or two ago. Now I am in your camp. I don't want another Batman movie until I can take my kids to see it. I am married, but no kids yet. Give me Flash, WW, and a strong Superman series.

 

[DaveMoral]

At first I had a list of all the things I wanted, which I posted a page or two ago. Now I am in your camp. I don't want another Batman movie until I can take my kids to see it. I am married, but no kids yet. Give me Flash, WW, and a strong Superman series.

My dilemma is that I want to be able to take my kids to see Batman soon. I'm not sure how comfortable I am in taking my 6 year old to TDKR, as it is. I need to see it again, with my wife, to make that assessment. But in 5 years I'd love to take him to a Batman that is more comic like.

 

[Skrilla31]

Sadly, and it pains me to say this... but I think the future of the Batman film franchise is in a little trouble. It just has so many things going against it. And when you factor in expectations of a possible DC shared universe, it complicates things even more.

Here's the thing. To a lot of people, Nolan's trilogy is this generation's definitive on-screen portrayal of Batman. Now granted I wasn't exactly the biggest fan, but my opinion withstanding... that trilogy was a big hit with the general audience. The Dark Knight in particular has already achieved iconic status and is a modern day classic. I just don't think this same audience is going to buy into a new Batman, at least not for a VERY long time. You have to remember that there was no Batman & Robin and there was no Spiderman 3. There was no "stinker" that left audiences clamoring for something different. For all intents and purposes, The Dark Knight Rises is a massive hit. And again, while I personally thought it was a steaming pile... that doesn't change the facts.

And that fact is this. This generation has their Batman.
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Okay so let's say Man Of Steel is a huge hit. Now what? A shared universe? Fine, let's say that's the plan. Let's assume that they take the Marvel route. Let's say they kick things off with a Superman movie in 2013... and then a Wonder Woman movie in 2015... and then another Superman movie AND a Flash movie in 2016... and then maybe a Green Lantern reboot in 2017 (lol God help them). How exactly are they going to make room for a Batman movie? Don't you think they have to wait AT LEAST five years before they try and give Batman another go at the big screen? So that's what... a Batman movie by 2018 maybe? And furthermore, what's the approach? From the looks of it, Man Of Steel appears to be grounded in a sense of realism and with less camp. So I imagine they're going to try and make the other DC films in that mold. But I fear any "realistic" approach to Batman is going to be shot down immediately and held to the Nolan standard... which is something they don't want.

And then what? The Justice League movie in 2020? So Batman only gets one movie before he's thrusted into the Justice League universe? I dunno, I think that's selling him short. Iron Man and Captain America, while big, don't have the same history or as strong a mythology as Batman does. It might have been perfectly fine to re-introduce Captain America to the world, have him defeat Red Skull, and then poof... he's in the Avengers movie. But this is Batman. How can you possibly limit the Batman mythos to one movie? He has too many villains. He has too many stories that NEED to be told before you take his character in the direction of a Justice League movie. We should only see Batman leave Gotham once we've seen everything there is to see in Gotham first. I wanna see Batman go toe to toe with Joker, Penguin, Two-Face, Riddler, etc. And THEN maybe it would be cool to see his character taken beyond and into the realm of the Justice League.

The only way to successfully reboot the Batman franchise, in my mind, is to do away with the idea of the shared universe. Just let Batman do Batman things... and let Superman do Superman things.

 

[CConn]

I'll be incredibly disappointed if we never get to see JGL Batman.

 

[Binker]

Whatever happens, whatever they choose, one thign remains: whoever takes over the franchise is screwed.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I want an adaptation of the Animated Series. Brad Bird as director with Bruce Timm and Paul Dini as producers. Could be amazing under their guidance.

 

[Jordacar]

I want an adaptation of the Animated Series. Brad Bird as director with Bruce Timm and Paul Dini as producers. Could be amazing under their guidance.

So a TV show?

 

[Donnie Darko]

I'll be incredibly disappointed if we never get to see JGL Batman.

That's where we differ. I will be extremely disappointed if that is the route they go. There are too many actual Batman story to tell.

 

[CConn]

That's where we differ. I will be extremely disappointed if that is the route they go. There are too many actual Batman story to tell.

The same could be said before Batman Beyond came about, or even any of the times Dick replaced Bruce in the comics.

Rebooting this soon is a dumb move anyway - Nolan's movies are too popular. Look at TASM; it was good, sure, but every single person who saw it had that same rehashed, deja vu feeling due to it being so close on the heels of SM1.

Give it 10 years - three JGL movies. You can still adapt famous storylines using JGL - Arkham Aslyum, some of Morrison's run, etc. Then by the time that trilogy wraps up, people will be clamering for a return of Bruce Wayne, and that's when you can do the full on reboot with totally different tone, direction, characterizations, etc.