After Nolan's BATMAN trilogy... - Part 1

[Rodrigo90]

I agree with Penguin. He's the perfect balance of realism and fantasy, which is a great way to start of in this reboot.

 

[Changeling]

Penguin as hes currently depicted wouldnt make for a good main villain imo, I see him more in a Falcone or Maroni sized role. I like the idea of Batman breaking into some back room at the Iceberg lounge where all kinds of seedy things are happening and Batman intimidating Penguin and interrogating him

 

[Rodrigo90]

A secondary villain then?

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Penguin as hes currently depicted wouldnt make for a good main villain imo, I see him more in a Falcone or Maroni sized role. I like the idea of Batman breaking into some back room at the Iceberg lounge where all kinds of seedy things are happening and Batman intimidating Penguin and interrogating him

No. This would be the next insult to the Penguin. He is not a punching bag to be bullied around. He should be portrayed as a man no one dares to touch (because he's fat hahah) - even Batman. He also shouldn't run stupid night clubs.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Joker in particular. At least Riddler concocted the kidnap Bruce Wayne scheme and taunted Batman and Robin with the sky written riddles. Joker did sod all except stand around giggling and bring Commodore Schmidlapp his tea!

Yes, forgot about that, the Riddler actually DID something, unlike the Joker.

 

[shauner111]

Don't mind Penguin running a night club but that shouldn't even scratch the surface of what he's up to in Gotham.

Also in that thread that i posted, it was 3 years ago. I think the latest Pain and Prejudice comic shows him in a deeper way. For all of the people (in that thread and now in this one) who don't think Penguin has been interesting in the comics over the last couple of decades and who stand by Black Mask. There's a lot going on psychologically.

There's a lot more to Penguin. He could smuggle drugs or be an arms dealer, run the Iceberg Lounge, but he could not only be tragic but really violent as well. Everything Sionis can do, Penguin can match that. He works as a dark mirror to Bruce Wayne much better than Roman Sionis does in my opinion. And he did it first.

Marketing would go through the roof with Oswald because he's obviously one of the main classic villains for Batman and it's been 20 years since we've seen him. It'll be closer to 25 when he finally appears, and we'll finally get a comic accurate version. Out of Joker, Catwoman, Riddler and Penguin (perhaps Two-Face as well) for the classics, we're left with him and Nygma. I will argue that not only is he more interesting than Black Mask but he's even more original than Nygma as well. Riddler deserves his shot soon but there's a lot of Joker-isms there. A lot to avoid. I've always seen Penguin as more original. Whether it was in a Nolan movie or in the reboot, he's a much better fit for a fresh storyline.

But to get back to the argument. There's no doubt Black Mask needs to be adapted to live-action..and soon. There's a good argument that Sionis has never been in a movie so he could be the more "fresh" choice, but i disagree. 25 years or so without Penguin is a long time. Especially when the first version was a spoof, the second was a complete makeover of the comics. Someone in the last thread called Devito's version a "dumber, fatter, Killer Croc with an army of Penguins that have missiles strapped to their backs" . Let's not forget the raw fish eating, black goo in mouth, flipper for hands examples. It's about time us Penguin fans get the real version and the general audience can see who he really is...without thinking of him while laughing at the same time.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Everything Black Mask does, Penguin can pretty much do. Black Mask has a cool look most of the time but what about originality? Sometimes he's written to be too similar to the Joker or too similar to Two-Face or especially too similar to Penguin.

Actually I think you should check out the first Black Mask story. Black Mask is an anti-Bruce Wayne, raised in an ivory tower who then learns that the world isn't as nice as he thinks and is alienated by the hypocrisy of people playing nice in public and being totally different in private life. I also liked that the "False Face Society" was a mixture of people being paid and true believers in his ideas.

After that I feel that they went the wrong way with Black Mask. Instead of a crime boss or cult leader (and a SAW-like torturer) he should have more focused on "exposing the true face" of various people. For example, corrupt politicians. Since many Batman villains have an obsession, his should be "truth". Not being a sadistic mob boss. But no one asks me

I just think Penguin deserves a shot first in the next round of movies. Even if Nolan had to use one of them in the third Batman, or if it went to a fourth, or Blakes story would continue...i see Penguin as a more exciting, logical and classic foe in that world.

The problem is that in big budget movies you need some sort of climax. In the original Batman Returns screenplay they went with "treasures under Wayne Manor", I think, but then we got penguins with rockets to destroy the city which isn't really true to the character. So in many ways I think the Penguin wouldn't work as a main villain.

 

[shauner111]

Actually I think you should check out the first Black Mask story. Black Mask is an anti-Bruce Wayne, raised in an ivory tower who then learns that the world isn't as nice as he thinks and is alienated by the hypocrisy of people playing nice in public and being totally different in private life. I also liked that the "False Face Society" was a mixture of people being paid and true believers in his ideas.

After that I feel that they went the wrong way with Black Mask. Instead of a crime boss or cult leader (and a SAW-like torturer) he should have more focused on "exposing the true face" of various people. For example, corrupt politicians. Since many Batman villains have an obsession, his should be "truth". Not being a sadistic mob boss. But no one asks me



The problem is that in big budget movies you need some sort of climax. In the original Batman Returns screenplay they went with "treasures under Wayne Manor", I think, but then we got penguins with rockets to destroy the city which isn't really true to the character. So in many ways I think the Penguin wouldn't work as a main villain.

To be honest, im not a Black Mask hater, i like the character very much but i cant say that ive grown up with his stories.

The early Black Mask was cooler. I like some of his later stuff as well, but it has more to do with his appearance. He has been written too much like the Joker or a freak version of Falcone/Maroni. It's not that interesting. Maybe a screenwriter can come in and flip it on its head, creating a superior version. It's DEFINATELY possible. But yeah the older stories were better.

I still feel that there are a lot of similarities with Penguin when it comes to the mirroring of Bruce Wayne and the business side of things.

 

[TheBlueMcCoy82]

Clearly...we need another Batman film where Bat's four main baddies (they've always been his big four) come together and try to take down Batman and Robin...t:

Seriously though, I'd love to see either Harley Quinn, Riddler and/or Penguin. Penguin has great potential for a mob boss type role.

 

[TheWatcher]

If you want Harley, then the Joker has to be there.

 

[shauner111]

No Joker, no Harley unless she's used in a minor role to build up the upcoming new Joker. And for me personally, i think Harley should be there with him the next time he's brought in.

 

[Changeling]

No. This would be the next insult to the Penguin. He is not a punching bag to be bullied around. He should be portrayed as a man no one dares to touch (because he's fat hahah) - even Batman. He also shouldn't run stupid night clubs.

Seriously? Youre calling the New Batman Adventures version of Penguin a disgrace? Because I literally described his character on that show which is an extension of one of the greatest interpretations of Batman and his villains. Stupid nightclub? Its a front for his gangster operations. Thats what gangsters do if youre going to be a classy gangster in the world today you have some sort of legitimate business, The Iceberg Lounge happens to be Penguins.

He is also a punching bag to be bullied around in Arkham City, he gets his arm broken in the first level.

I think you want Penguin to be different than the current incarnations. Penguin has never been a physical threat to Batman, his threat has always been behind the scenes.

I dont think Batman should be afraid to touch him... Penguin should be a nasty ruthless and heartless bastard like in Arkham City, but hes also not a very intimidating physical threat and has never been portrayed as such. Lately he has been a punching bag to be bullied around, but by Batman, not anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjK719rheE&feature=related

Please watch this, I think your ideas are very off. Your ideas belong with another character.

Ive always loved this picture of Penguin

 

[Rodrigo90]

Penguin was quite intimidating in Arkham City. He's a nasty little ****. But he only talks big behind his weapons and thugs.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Seriously? Youre calling the New Batman Adventures version of Penguin a disgrace? Because I literally described his character on that show which is an extension of one of the greatest interpretations of Batman and his villains. Stupid nightclub? Its a front for his gangster operations. Thats what gangsters do if youre going to be a classy gangster in the world today you have some sort of legitimate business, The Iceberg Lounge happens to be Penguins.

He is also a punching bag to be bullied around in Arkham City, he gets his arm broken in the first level.

I think you want Penguin to be different than the current incarnations. Penguin has never been a physical threat to Batman, his threat has always been behind the scenes.

I dont think Batman should be afraid to touch him... Penguin should be a nasty ruthless and heartless bastard like in Arkham City, but hes also not a very intimidating physical threat and has never been portrayed as such. Lately he has been a punching bag to be bullied around, but by Batman, not anyone else.

Please watch this, I think your ideas are very off. Your ideas belong with another character.

Ive always loved this picture of Penguin

No, it sucks. Penguin should be a criminal mastermind and all of Gotham should be afraid of him. And he has a thing for birds. That's how the character should be written. A good-hearted man that the world has turned into something bad that is eaten up by ambition and rejection. In a way he should be the only tragic Batman villain while all the other should (and are) already be a little bit rotten at the core right from the beginning. A little bit like the Joker origin from "The Killing Joke", except that this is way more suitable for a character like the Penguin. Tragedy turns him towards crime and there it's the first time in his life he feels that people respect him. If he was 6' instead of 5'2'' and not hideous looking he might have become a rich business and philanthropist but the cruel world turned him into one of world's greatest criminals.

The Penguin should not be a weak plot device that gets beat up when Batman needs some "underworld information".

 

[The Joker]

Penguin was quite intimidating in Arkham City. He's a nasty little ****. But he only talks big behind his weapons and thugs.

I loved Penguin in Arkham City because he was used as a straight up super villain rather than just a club owner, at gang wars with Joker and Two Face for territory. His museum base set up was ultra cool. He attacked with you with Titan thugs, Solomon Grundy etc. You got to punch the hell out of a shark, too. It reminded me of Penguin's shark attack on Batman in the 60's movie. Burgess Meredith would be proud.

Lets face it, 75% of Batman's villains hide behind their henchmen. Penguin is not foolish enough to think he is a physical match for Batman.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I loved Penguin in Arkham City because he was used as a straight up super villain rather than just a club owner, at gang wars with Joker and Two Face for territory. His museum base set up was ultra cool. He attacked with you with Titan thugs, Solomon Grundy etc. You got to punch the hell out of a shark, too. It reminded me of Penguin's shark attack on Batman in the 60's movie. Burgess Meredith would be proud.

Lets face it, 75% of Batman's villains hide behind their henchmen. Penguin is not foolish enough to think he is a physical match for Batman.

He was cool there

The thing I liked about DeVito and Meredith's Penguin's, was that they weren't afraid to go at Batman in hand to hand combat. Granted Meredith had cronies helping him in the fight. Whereas DeVito, while obviously not as big or as powerful, was filled with so much rage that he charged at Batman. But this WAS with his umbrella, a weapon. Even Meredith used a weapon.

Penguin in Arkham City was a straight coward without any weapon's, as he is in the comics also.

With this movie, it depends on the characterization rather than the actor. My cousin is 40 and only 5'3, but he could knock anybody out lol

Penguin in AC, creates the traps, because he's a sadistic little git. He loves to see others suffer, and this I feel was taking from Returns?

So I would want to see that return. Just that murderous desire. Even when he's cornered without weapons. Something where the viewer doesn't think he's stupid for running at Batman without a chance, you know he's deadly serious.

 

[TheWatcher]

Clearly the AC version of Penguin did own the Iceberg Lounge at one time, but as he was exposed, he lowered himself to the level of Two-Face, Black Mask etc.

 

[The Joker]

He was cool there

The thing I liked about DeVito and Meredith's Penguin's, was that they weren't afraid to go at Batman in hand to hand combat. Granted Meredith had cronies helping him in the fight. Whereas DeVito, while obviously not as big or as powerful, was filled with so much rage that he charged at Batman. But this WAS with his umbrella, a weapon. Even Meredith used a weapon.

Penguin in Arkham City was a straight coward without any weapon's, as he is in the comics also.

Well Meredith and DeVito as you said only attacked Batman when they had a weapon in hand, namely an umbrella. Pengy in AC was no different. After you defeat Solomon Grundy, Penguin hops down into the pit with you and starts shooting at you with a missile gun; "Just you and me. The Bat vs The Bird". It gives you the chance to beat the hell out of him. Something you could never do with the likes of Joker, Two Face or Riddler in the game.

With this movie, it depends on the characterization rather than the actor. My cousin is 40 and only 5'3, but he could knock anybody out lol

Penguin shouldn't be the physical type. If he attacks Batman it should be with a weapon, preferably a trick umbrella. Last thing I want to see is a ninja type Penguin like the one from The Batman cartoon show.

Penguin in AC, creates the traps, because he's a sadistic little git. He loves to see others suffer, and this I feel was taking from Returns, possibly?

Well considering it was a video game it was appropriate to set traps because it adds to the challenge for the player when going through Penguin's level. It shouldn't be an easy ride for Batman. Imagine playing through the museum level without the traps. Not nearly as much fun or challenging.

The whole collecting people like trophies and locking them in his museum display cases was very sick. He was in general a twisted sicko, somewhat like DeVito. I mean he audio broadcasts himself freezing the hand of one of the Cops with Freeze's gun and then smashing it to pieces with a hammer.

He was a monster.

So I would want to see that return. Just that murderous desire, even when he's cornered without weapons.

Yes. I also want to see a Penguin so nasty that he'll sic killer attack birds on his own men if they piss him off in any way:

 

[Rodrigo90]

Defo

 

[Changeling]

I dunno if I would want to see The Penguin dispatching killer birds.. that would have to be handled very carefully for Penguin to be taken seriously, when I imagine that in my head it seems like it could be really goofy.

 

[The Joker]

I dunno if I would want to see The Penguin dispatching killer birds.. that would have to be handled very carefully for Penguin to be taken seriously, when I imagine that in my head it seems like it could be really goofy.

Imagine it like something out of Alfred Hitchcock.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I agree. But I believe it could be done, if handled in the right way. Something more subtle, but just as disturbing and deadly. The Birds comes to mind, the pesky crows from Resident Evil lol

 

[shauner111]

LOL that was awesome.

Penguin, a horrible human being but nobody is classier

 

[TheWatcher]

I just cant see him as the main villain. He could be a great secondary or background villain.

 

[shauner111]

It would certainly work with crows. I can see a short but really violent scene.

I just cant see him as the main villain. He could be a great secondary or background villain.

That could work, but i dont think they should spit on the character like that. He has a LOT of potential as a psychological villain. Going into his backstory and everything. He should be a main villain.