Age of Ultron Age of Ultron SPOILER thread, DO NOT enter if you don't want to be spoiled!!! - Part 4

[PunyGod]

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[AgentGojiraRgr]

Ultron should be like a cockroach that takes his time and keeps coming back stronger.

Would be cool if they send him to outer space.

 

[divan]

Ultron is not a villain that should re-occur anytime soon. He is more Malekith than Loki. Maybe in Phase 5 or 6 when they've run out of characters and ideas.

Malekith was an obstacle. Ultron's a character.

 

[Sharkboy]

Malekith was an obstacle. Ultron's a character.

Character? more like a quip machine who babbled a lot of deep stuff without really understanding much. He was fun to watch (and Spaders performance was excellent) but he wasn't anything resembling a character.

Maybe one day the MCU will learn how to write a villain, maybe they should ask Drew Goddard/Steven S Knight, they got it down first try.

 

[divan]

Character? more like a quip machine who babbled a lot of deep stuff without really understanding much. He was fun to watch (and Spaders performance was excellent) but he wasn't anything resembling a character.

Maybe one day the MCU will learn how to write a villain, maybe they should ask Drew Goddard/Steven S Knight, they got it down first try.

No. I quote myself here from another post - Ultron's, as opposed to being defined by a single characteristic like many villains (even good ones), can be cold, funny, calm, over-emotional, childish, contradictory, visionary, narcissistic, confused and (in his relationship with the twins) even compassive, sad or disappointed and flawed.

He's, perhaps, one of the most humane characters in the whole movie. He's, as oppossed to one of Stark's mere "creations" an independent form of life in itself (and so is Vision). And, from my point of view, he's developed enough to be his own character as oppossed to a simple menace (his relationship with the twins was a highlight from a point of view, specially telling Natasha he's got "no one else" after losing their comradeship).

The only thing Daredevil got objectively (if that word has a place when discussing an artform) "right" with Fisk that Ultron didn't already have is when it came screentime. But personally I believe that brevity is the soul of wit and that we saw enough of Ultron (both in quantity as in quality - scenes like his birth and death are magnificent, as is his view of the twins) for him to be an interesting character, you can disagree or have prefered something else (like a more menacing Fisk-like antagonist), but that your personal preference, not a flaw of the character.

He's ultimately no Malekith, that's just an easy "let's validate my personal opinion by comparing him to the worst MCU villain" route. That's just bogus.

 

[flickchick85]

Ultron is a being with anger, ego, insecurities, sadness, twisted motivations for the actions he takes, and a snarky, short-tempered personality to boot. He is most definitely a character, imo.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't expect the original team to be back together 'til IW: Part 2.

That would be cool.

Won't happen though.

 

[Marchesk]

Ultron is a being with anger, ego, insecurities, sadness, twisted motivations for the actions he takes, and a snarky, short-tempered personality to boot. He is most definitely a character, imo.

Sure, he just wasn't all that threatening, and his motivations were hard to make sense of. What kind of world was he trying to create through a global extinction event? Why did he think that was the best way to evolve humanity instead of offering to enhance them or just replace the Avengers with himself? Why was he mad at Stark? His motivations just didn't do it for me.

And being deprived of the Vision body made him outclassed and no longer a real threat.

 

[hafizbat]

Character? more like a quip machine who babbled a lot of deep stuff without really understanding much. He was fun to watch (and Spaders performance was excellent) but he wasn't anything resembling a character.

Maybe one day the MCU will learn how to write a villain, maybe they should ask Drew Goddard/Steven S Knight, they got it down first try.

But that's it. That's exactly who he is. He's like a teenager who starts thinking he knows better than everyone else. He babbles deep stuff but he doesn't have understanding. He takes stories from the bible and uses them as inspiration, he looks at humanity and sees only disease, and all he sees when he looks at Stark and the Avengers is a disgusting failure, but he's wrong about it all. That's exactly what his character is. He's like Stark's teenage son. He's also insecure and craves attention, just like a high schooler.

And that's why Vision is such a great antithesis of Ultron. He does understand. He does see beauty in what is imperfect. He too, like Ultron, knows humans are flawed and won't last, but he finds beauty and meaning in their struggle.

That last chat between them was absolutely beautiful.

 

[thanos1990]

Lol

 

[Suzanne78]

Ultron is a being with anger, ego, insecurities, sadness, twisted motivations for the actions he takes, and a snarky, short-tempered personality to boot. He is most definitely a character, imo.

Yeah, Ultron got a full arc, and a personality. He was very entertaining, as well as pretty layered.

More on the Loki/Fisk spectrum than Malekith.

 

[Sharkboy]

But that's it. That's exactly who he is. He's like a teenager who starts thinking he knows better than everyone else. He babbles deep stuff but he doesn't have understanding. He takes stories from the bible and uses them as inspiration, he looks at humanity and sees only disease, and all he sees when he looks at Stark and the Avengers is a disgusting failure, but he's wrong about it all. That's exactly what his character is. He's like Stark's teenage son. He's also insecure and craves attention, just like a high schooler.

And that's why Vision is such a great antithesis of Ultron. He does understand. He does see beauty in what is imperfect. He too, like Ultron, knows humans are flawed and won't last, but he finds beauty and meaning in their struggle.

That last chat between them was absolutely beautiful.

Sorry dude, I just didn't feel it. I get it and I agree with what you are saying, but it wasn't executed as well as youre describing it. All the elements are there enough for you to fill in the blanks, but you shouldn't have to, the character work needs to be strong so that it's apparant that theres a reason for him being impetulant and childish, where is the time devoted to that pre-rampancy relationship between stark and ultron? where are the little character moments that show us that for all his flare and pomposity he still has no idea what he's on about? We had a brilliant little moment of insecurity during his conversation with Klaw but what about after that? It's just replaced with quips and jokes and cute little moments.

I agree with your assesment of vision, but end of the day it means nothing if they are just leaving it to your imagination, there was nothing in that film to truly nail in the fact that Jarvis/vision fully understands and cares about humanity flaws and all. He's just there.

Having good ideas presented on screen is great, but if you are only half baking it, then it's just as bad as not having them at all. (probably even worse)

 

[hafizbat]

Sorry dude, I just didn't feel it. I get it and I agree with what you are saying, but it wasn't executed as well as youre describing it. All the elements are there enough for you to fill in the blanks, but you shouldn't have to, the character work needs to be strong so that it's apparant that theres a reason for him being impetulant and childish, where is the time devoted to that pre-rampancy relationship between stark and ultron? where are the little character moments that show us that for all his flare and pomposity he still has no idea what he's on about? We had a brilliant little moment of insecurity during his conversation with Klaw but what about after that? It's just replaced with quips and jokes and cute little moments.

I agree with your assesment of vision, but end of the day it means nothing if they are just leaving it to your imagination, there was nothing in that film to truly nail in the fact that Jarvis/vision fully understands and cares about humanity flaws and all. He's just there.

Having good ideas presented on screen is great, but if you are only half baking it, then it's just as bad as not having them at all. (probably even worse)

Can't argue with you there. My arugment was more theoretical, on what Ultron was supposed to be. I don't hold it against anyone if they thought he was half-baked though, because he definitely didn't get the time he needed. All your points are correct, and if he was given more time I'm sure he would have met them.

Like I've said before, Ultron may have been half-baked, but whatever Whedon was baking was magnificent. I love the idea of Ultron, even if the execution wasn't perfect. I thought he was a breath of fresh air, and unique.

 

[divan]

where are the little character moments that show us that for all his flare and pomposity he still has no idea what he's on about? We had a brilliant little moment of insecurity during his conversation with Klaw but what about after that? It's just replaced with quips and jokes and cute little moments.

And him losing the twins' trust, and him telling BW he's got no one, and him telling JARVIS he feels wrong and confused once he's born, and him feeling he needed the vision's body to be a beautiful saviour and that the Avengers have taken that purpouse away from him, and him explicitly wanting to pit, in his own words, all the Avengers against all him, and his final scene with the Vision...

Having good ideas presented on screen is great, but if you are only half baking it, then it's just as bad as not having them at all. (probably even worse)

The half-backing excuse is just subjective at this point, it is one thing not to feel the same, but sometimes I feel I've watched longer version of the movie with a lot of scenes some conveniently leave out.

 

[Mysteryman]

I don't think so, was it a very obvious one? Or was it subtle?

Yes.
When Tony was choosing the new operating system for his armor,
Jocasta was among the choices.

 

[Sharkboy]

And him losing the twins' trust, and him telling BW he's got no one, and him telling JARVIS he feels wrong and confused once he's born, and him feeling he needed the vision's body to be a beautiful saviour and that the Avengers have taken that purpouse away from him, and him explicitly wanting to pit, in his own words, all the Avengers against all him, and his final scene with the Vision...



The half-backing excuse is just subjective at this point, it is one thing not to feel the same, but sometimes I feel I've watched longer version of the movie with a lot of scenes some conveniently leave out.

All things he says, nothing he really shows. Maybe if the film would just pause for a minute or two and give us a quiet scene where he's not talking or quipping or explaining and just show us something. For all my issues with Thor 1, they really nailed Loki and his frustrations, and you felt what he was feeling. Ultron didn't make me feel anything. Yes it's subjective, but it's also a reason why you aren't seeing any raves about him either.

 

[Mysteryman]

I don't think so, was it a very obvious one? Or was it subtle?

Yes.
ehenTony was choosing the new operating systemfor his armor,
Jocasta was among the choices.

 

[Mjölnir]

I actually don't think Vision destroyed him. From the beginning, he spoke of how he does not hate Ultron nor does he want to destroy him. He clearly feels a connection to Ultron, even sympathy.

I'm betting he pulled some Infinity Stone voodoo to spare Ultron.

It's certainly possible, but while Vision said he doesn't want to destroy Ultron he did say that it needed to be done.

 

[Hmarrs]

Lol

The fact that this even happens during credits in relation to this story(Fine Ill do it myself..Suggest since Ultron failed) does that suggest that Thanos was behind Ultron in some way?

 

[drod1985]

The fact that this even happens during credits in relation to this story(Fine Ill do it myself..Suggest since Ultron failed) does that suggest that Thanos was behind Ultron in some way?

It could, but I'd assume that scene with Thanos takes place shortly after Ronan's defeat. Nothing happens to lead us to believe that Thanos influenced Ultron's creation, other than the connection to the Mind Stone. I didn't see anything that made me think Thanos was in control of events there.

 

[Hmarrs]

It could, but I'd assume that scene with Thanos takes place shortly after Ronan's defeat. Nothing happens to lead us to believe that Thanos influenced Ultron's creation, other than the connection to the Mind Stone. I didn't see anything that made me think Thanos was in control of events there.

Yes but remember Tony and banner agreed that they really weren't close to an Interface remember then out of no where he pops up...With an Evil intent and nature. Total Extinction of the Earth which is Thanos plans plus having passion of the Gem.

It cant be after Ronans defeat because he still doesn't have all of the Gems.Ronans Gem was taken by the Nova force no?
However having all the Gems as he did would suggest this event is after way after since Vision still has a Gem no?

But it still doesn't leave out the fact that he was behind Ultron manifestation somehow since it was really never explain how Ultron ultimately came to be.

 

[Surfer]

dumb question time in the marvel films JARVIS stands for Just Another Rather Very Intelligent System, what does F.R.I.D.A.Y. stand for ?

Supposedly Friday is not an Acronym like J.A.R.V.I.S., but a personal assistant Tony creates and the name comes from the film "His Girl Friday" with Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell. I did not know this but seen a video on the site that shall not be named that included this information, so thought I would share.

Surfer

 

[drod1985]

Yes but remember Tony and banner agreed that they really weren't close to an Interface remember then out of no where he pops up...With an Evil intent and nature. Total Extinction of the Earth which is Thanos plans plus having passion of the Gem...

But it still doesn't leave out the fact that he was behind Ultron manifestation somehow since it was really never explain how Ultron ultimately came to be.

Tony and Bruce were attempting the interface before the party. Jarvis then offers to continue running tests and simulations during the party, and happens upon a successful test. That's when Ultron is born. When I watched it again last night I was looking for any indication of Thanos' influence, and didn't really see anything.

It cant be after Ronans defeat because he still doesn't have all of the Gems.Ronans Gem was taken by the Nova force no?
However having all the Gems as he did would suggest this event is after way after since Vision still has a Gem no?

The glove Thanos takes during the end credit scene has no gems in it at all.

 

[Surfer]

Ultron is not a villain that should re-occur anytime soon. He is more Malekith than Loki. Maybe in Phase 5 or 6 when they've run out of characters and ideas.

Well I thought Ultron was a great villain. Yes, he might have benefited from extra time to help further develope his character, but overall with the time given on screen he managed to come off to me as a character with almost infinite knowledge but very little understanding as it is something that he can only obtain by living life itself. And as another person said Ultron acted like a teenager at times thinking that he knows everything, and more then the person that has lived many years and experienced much of what life has to offer. Knowledge is not intelligence or common sense, and it is the later that Ultron was missing. So, yeah I thought he was an excellent Villain and I would easily put him up there among my favorites. Also, keep in mind if he was to return I would not necessarilly suggest that he be the star of the movie, but I would love it if they do a Secret Wars down the road if he returned. or perhaps if they do like a Masters of Evil or Acts of Vengeance type film I think Ultron would be perfect for it.

Surfer

 

[JB33]

I had no problems with Ultron at all. I actually hope to see more of him soon. That movie didn't feel like enough of Ultron for me. Not even close.

His last scene with Vision wasn't a death scene either, at least it didn't seem like it to me. He's somewhere out there.