Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD - 3x04 - "Devils You Know" - Discussion Thread

[<(o_o)>]

True, but motivation was offered as part of the evidence in support of the hypothesis that Andrew is Lash earlier in the thread. I just do not think that that motivation fits Andrew's profile.

Still, if that's not Lash's motivation, what might it be?
There are not many plausible options.
For example, we can rule out killing for sport, or just instinctively. He says he is "necessary". But necessary for what?
It's not to protect the public (the couple of inhumans were no threat to anyone; plus, Lash does not seem to care about humans).

Maybe he wants to keep some other groups of inhumans hidden?
But that would not be Andrew's motivation, either.

So, I will add another piece of evidence against the hypothesis that Andrew is Lash: No plausible motivation for Lash seems to fit Andrew's psychological profile. Neither does Lash's utter disregard for human life (e.g., he killed a man in the hospital just for not telling him where to find the inhuman - something that the guy in question almost certainly knew nothing about -, and then even mocked the dead guy saying "never mind").

If Lash isn't somehow being controlled then he is just very misguided & has a superiority complex to see himself as the judge, jury & executioner of other inhumans. If Andrew isn't Lash then maybe they are still working together.

 

[jaqua99]

So last night I noticed the discussion here was on who Lash is. I was home later from work so I didn't get to finish this episode before falling asleep, but in my "half-asleep" phase I thought Lash is either Andrew, or somehow related to Simmons lol.

 

[Loki882]

I to considered the possibility that Andrew might be Lash (it would certainly explain some of his behavior). And if he does turn out to be, then the question is was he ALWAYS Lash, or did Lash replace the real Andrew at some point?

It seems like a recurring theme this season is "characters going into situations half-cocked without knowing all of the details and it will probably backfire on them eventually."
-Hunter's obsession with Ward.
-Coulson getting a little too close with Rosalind despite still not knowing much about her.
-Simmons wanting to go back to alien Mad Max world (despite not knowing if someone not very friendly might be waiting for her).
-Etc.

And speaking of Coulson/Rosalind, oh just kiss already you two. Seriously, the sexual tension is so thick between you that you'd need Goldfinger's laser to cut through it.

 

[Eddie]

Right now I'm leaning toward Andrew being an Inhuman, but I don't think he's Lash. I'm thinking Rosalind's goon is Lash.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

can we rule out Rosalind herself?

 

[ctsketch]

True, but motivation was offered as part of the evidence in support of the hypothesis that Andrew is Lash earlier in the thread. I just do not think that that motivation fits Andrew's profile.

Still, if that's not Lash's motivation, what might it be?
There are not many plausible options.
For example, we can rule out killing for sport, or just instinctively. He says he is "necessary". But necessary for what?
It's not to protect the public (the couple of inhumans were no threat to anyone; plus, Lash does not seem to care about humans).

Maybe he wants to keep some other groups of inhumans hidden?
But that would not be Andrew's motivation, either.

So, I will add another piece of evidence against the hypothesis that Andrew is Lash: No plausible motivation for Lash seems to fit Andrew's psychological profile. Neither does Lash's utter disregard for human life (e.g., he killed a man in the hospital just for not telling him where to find the inhuman - something that the guy in question almost certainly knew nothing about -, and then even mocked the dead guy saying "never mind").

But if anyone believes otherwise, I will just ask the following question:

Can anyone come up with any motivation that would fit both Andrew's psychological profile and Lash's actions?

Maybe Lash is the Inhuman fail safe in case Afterlife fell....he would wipe their existence from history to "protect" them?

 

[Demileto]

Right now I'm leaning toward Andrew being an Inhuman, but I don't think he's Lash. I'm thinking Rosalind's goon is Lash.

can we rule out Rosalind herself?

As I stated in the previous page, we can rule out both Rosalind and Banks, they were with Coulson and Hunter in the subway in the premiere while Lash was attacking the hospital.

 

[terry78]

I to considered the possibility that Andrew might be Lash (it would certainly explain some of his behavior). And if he does turn out to be, then the question is was he ALWAYS Lash, or did Lash replace the real Andrew at some point?

It seems like a recurring theme this season is "characters going into situations half-cocked without knowing all of the details and it will probably backfire on them eventually."
-Hunter's obsession with Ward.
-Coulson getting a little too close with Rosalind despite still not knowing much about her.
-Simmons wanting to go back to alien Mad Max world (despite not knowing if someone not very friendly might be waiting for her).
-Etc.

And speaking of Coulson/Rosalind, oh just kiss already you two. Seriously, the sexual tension is so thick between you that you'd need Goldfinger's laser to cut through it.

In other words, it's a Marvel story.

 

[Eddie]

can we rule out Rosalind herself?

The FCC doesn't support free the nipple, though. Lash is topless, so if Lash is a woman she's showing her demonic breasts on network television. Can't have that.

 

[Chemistro]

Well, we can't expect to get all answers this early in the season, can we? And speaking of that, what's Andrew's psychological profile? All we know about him is that he's a suave psychiatrist who deeply loves May. Do we even know what motivates him to help Coulson and SHIELD with the psychological evaluation of their Inhuman recruits?

We know that he got into SHIELD - passing psychological tests, for sure -, and he isn't HYDRA - so, he didn't pass the tests because HYDRA cheated.

We know he was married to May, and she was in love with him. That does not sound like a guy who was already a transformed inhuman who would have no regard for human life and would be willing to kill people because they were not worthy of their powers, so if that is Lash's motivation, I would say that Lash is not Andrew.

Granted, there are other potential motivations. But not so many, in my assessment.

ETA: Just noticed your edit. A possible motivation could be May herself. If he was an Inhuman who had never accepted himself for who he really is and May was the one light in his darkness that was taken away from him because of the Bahrain incident then he may feel propense to avoid a repeat of that by massive extermination of all these Nuhumans as he gets another shot at happiness with her.

I would say that's not the case, for (among others) the following reasons:

1. In 3.04, Lash told Frye "I'm not merciful. I'm necessary". He had no reason to lie - he said that before killing Frye, so it's not as if Frye was going to talk.
That expression "I'm necessary" clearly indicates someone who is doing what he believes needs to be done because of some cause beyond his own happiness - part of a much bigger picture.
In other words, he does not believe it's personal.

2. In 3.01, Lash asked a security guard where the inhuman was. When he replied "I don't know", Lash just killed him, and when he saw Lincoln, he said "never mind" and just tried to kill Lincoln. While he usually isn't interested in killing humans, he disregards human life. That does not look at all like Andrew. Nor was there any need to kill him in order to protect May.

3. Andrew is a good psychologist. He knows that May would never want to be with someone who commits mass murder, and he can't expect to kept that a secret for the rest of his life, as he keeps murdering people.

4. Lash is killing humans who pose no threat whatsoever to May. For example, the couple he killed in 3.04 were not at all hostile. They were friends of Alisha. May didn't even come into play.

5. More generally, attempting to exterminate an entire species just in case some of them put May in a position of having to shoot a kid is insane. Plus, he clearly cannot succeed, and Andrew would know that. Andrew does not look insane.

6. Lash was killing even after May had left SHIELD. Andrew left her, but instead, he could have stayed with her.

If Lash isn't somehow being controlled then he is just very misguided & has a superiority complex to see himself as the judge, jury & executioner of other inhumans. If Andrew isn't Lash then maybe they are still working together.

But why would Andrew work with Lash?
And why would Lash work with Andrew?

Right now I'm leaning toward Andrew being an Inhuman, but I don't think he's Lash. I'm thinking Rosalind's goon is Lash.

can we rule out Rosalind herself?

In addition to Demileto's point about the subway, I would add that as established in the previous discussion, Rosalind is either not an inhuman, or at least not an inhuman who already underwent terrigenesis. The same applies to Rosalind's goon.

 

[just one thing]

Maybe Lash is the Inhuman fail safe in case Afterlife fell....he would wipe their existence from history to "protect" them?

a pre out break inhuman. would make him the spy of spys vetting who gets to be on project caterpillar. Better set up than luke, good one.


a good point was made about banks and roslyn being on the train the time of the attack at the hospital. Any identifiable actu not on that train. Given lash knew which van to jump people from that group are still good candidates.

 

[Chemistro]

Maybe Lash is the Inhuman fail safe in case Afterlife fell....he would wipe their existence from history to "protect" them?

I'm not sure what you have in mind. Whom might he be trying to protect?

In any case, that does not seem probable. For example, he's also killing inhumans who didn't have anything to do with Afterlife.
Also, he spared Daisy in 3.04, even though he attacked her in 3.01, after she prevented him from killing Lincoln. That would make sense if he is trying to determine who is worthy, and his means of determining that is to attack inhumans and try to kill them. Any inhuman who manages to survive his attack is deemed worthy. The rest, well, die in the attack.

At any rate, that would not support the theory that he is Andrew.

 

[Chemistro]

a pre out break inhuman. would make him the spy of spys vetting who gets to be on project caterpillar. Better set up than luke, good one.


a good point was made about banks and roslyn being on the train the time of the attack at the hospital. Any identifiable actu not on that train. Given lash knew which van to jump people from that group are still good candidates.

Frye did not react to those people the way he reacted to Daisy. He only wanted them to remove her from the room, not the others. That indicates that the others are not inhumans (if he reacted like that to all inhumans, before or after terrigenesis), or at least not inhumans who already went through terrigenesis.

 

[Demileto]

We know he was married to May, and she was in love with him. That does not sound like a guy who was already a transformed inhuman who would have no regard for human life and would be willing to kill people because they were not worthy of their powers, so if that is Lash's motivation, I would say that Lash is not Andrew.

Mary Morstan married John Watson in season 3 of BBC's Sherlock, is in love with him and she's been established in a most definite way as a psychopath in that show, so there is precedence in entertainment for a psychopath to be in love with someone and be cold and heartless to everyone else.

I would say that's not the case, for (among others) the following reasons:

1. In 3.04, Lash told Frye "I'm not merciful. I'm necessary". He had no reason to lie - he said that before killing Frye, so it's not as if Frye was going to talk.
That expression "I'm necessary" clearly indicates someone who is doing what he believes needs to be done because of some cause beyond his own happiness - part of a much bigger picture.
In other words, he does not believe it's personal.

2. In 3.01, Lash asked a security guard where the inhuman was. When he replied "I don't know", Lash just killed him, and when he saw Lincoln, he said "never mind" and just tried to kill Lincoln. While he usually isn't interested in killing humans, he disregards human life. That does not look at all like Andrew. Nor was there any need to kill him in order to protect May.

3. Andrew is a good psychologist. He knows that May would never want to be with someone who commits mass murder, and he can't expect to kept that a secret for the rest of his life, as he keeps murdering people.

4. Lash is killing humans who pose no threat whatsoever to May. For example, the couple he killed in 3.04 were not at all hostile. They were friends of Alisha. May didn't even come into play.

5. More generally, attempting to exterminate an entire species just in case some of them put May in a position of having to shoot a kid is insane. Plus, he clearly cannot succeed, and Andrew would know that. Andrew does not look insane.

6. Lash was killing even after May had left SHIELD. Andrew left her, but instead, he could have stayed with her.

I don't think I've seen enough of Andrew to believe that he cares all that much about human life in general. I know he cares about MAY and is pretty friendly with Coulson and Daisy, but that's it. Also, murderous psychopaths might see the idea of living a life with someone so completely opposed of the idea of murder as both a thrill and an excellent cover for their activities. I'll give you the whole "doesn't see this as personal", though.

 

[Chemistro]

Mary Morstan married John Watson in season 3 of BBC's Sherlock, is in love with him and she's been established in a most definite way as a psychopath in that show, so there is precedence in entertainment for a psychopath to be in love with someone and be cold and heartless to everyone else.

But "precedent in entertainment" does not sound like a good evidence in AoS.

I don't think I've seen enough of Andrew to believe that he cares all that much about human life in general. I know he cares about MAY and is pretty friendly with Coulson and Daisy, but that's it.

He doesn't have to care a lot, just enough not to kill people casually just because he's pissed.

But okay, let's leave aside point 2 for the sake of the argument. The other five points remain.

I'll give you the whole "doesn't see this as personal", though.

Thanks.

That aside, another reason why it seems it's not Andrew is how he reacted to Daisy: In 3.01, he didn't seem to even notice her, and went straight for Lincoln - indicating he did not know Daisy was an inhuman. Andrew would have known.
Also, when she used her power against him, he attacked her. But Mack intervened and shot him, so he retreated, then knocked Mack out, and then attacked Lincoln and Daisy again. But Daisy managed to fend off his attack.
In 3.04, he decided not to kill Daisy. Why would Andrew have that change of heart?
Now, if Lash's worthiness test is that an inhuman must be capable of surviving his attack in order to be deemed worthy, that would explain it.
It would also explain the attack on people like the couple in 3.04.

 

[DN91]

Might be a split personality thing going on, with the Lash "persona" amplifying Andrew's worst traits or something.

 

[Chemistro]

Might be a split personality thing going on, with the Lash "persona" amplifying Andrew's worst traits or something.

That would disconnect their motivation. But why would then one suspect of Andrew?

There are other pieces of evidence that count against it, though, like the way he interacted with Daisy, and the fact that he can identify inhumans without relying on SHIELD's information to do so.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I'm really glad we still get good episodes after the start of this season was a letdown. This one was well made and it looks like next week will be extremely interesting

 

[WeatherWizard99]

1st... andrew could have become lash AFTER the events of the season 2 finale... that explains the "so was he always lash ?!" question...

and 2nd... lash might be andrew's split personality... like green goblin from teh original spiderman movies

 

[just one thing]

Frye did not react to those people the way he reacted to Daisy. He only wanted them to remove her from the room, not the others. That indicates that the others are not inhumans (if he reacted like that to all inhumans, before or after terrigenesis), or at least not inhumans who already went through terrigenesis.

so its looking like andrew then.

 

[Vartha]

Finally got to see lastnight's show and loved it as usual!
What's getting me is the WAY Jemma was telling Fitz she needed to go back. Like she had bad news for Fitz

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Finally got to see lastnight's show and loved it as usual!
What's getting me is the WAY Jemma was telling Fitz she needed to go back. Like she had bad news for Fitz

I tell you, Tripp's and Jemma's child is still in the N-Zone on that planet #itsallconnected #thathashtagmakesnosense

 

[Vartha]

Very well could be

 

[DN91]

Finally got to see lastnight's show and loved it as usual!
What's getting me is the WAY Jemma was telling Fitz she needed to go back. Like she had bad news for Fitz

"There's someone I want you to meet. This nice guy I met over on the mysterious planet. His name's Peter. He like's 70s music, and is friends with a talking tree and a talking raccoon."

 

[Dr. Evil]

Some people think that Werner's scared look was his reaction to his first time killing a man. That would make sense, if he had ran away, but he did not. Instead he hid in front of a parked car across the street as he watches the building explode in fright. If he had actually killed Andrew, we would have seen him run away from the building and not run to the nearest vehicle and hide in front of it.