The Dark Knight Rises Agree or Disagree: John Blake is the root of the problems in TDKR

[Alex Logan]

At what? Posting a gif that illustrates my reaction to how ridiculously dramatic and foolish that rant you made was?

Yeah, pretty much. Clearly you know what that gif is from and you also know the context of the scene. You're comparing me to dim-witted idiot who thought he almost killed the Batman by throwing a rock at him.



Dramatic? Yes. Foolish? No. Rant? No, a well thought out post that describes both sides of a ridiculous argument.

 

[Alex Logan]

Spoiler

But not really, eventually I imagine the debate will get boring for both sides

Nope, we are there already.

 

[Fudgie]

This can fixed very easily...

Those of you who think Nolan made a poor film... never speak of it, don't buy it and never watch it again. It's Spiderman 3 and Blade 3 combined into one, it's total crap and it doesn't exsit. You hate this film.

Those of you who think Nolan made fantastic film... yell from the mountain tops, buy an hundred copies and watch it unilt the end of time. It's Citizen Kane and Metropolis combined into one, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and it will live forever. You love this film.

Problem solved, argument over, lock thread forever. Thank you.

I have no intention of buying it or watching it again except maybe clips on Youtube for reference points for when I want to criticize it.

I'm a Batman fan and this movie failed me as a fan. If I want to talk about it as a fan then I will. You can moan about that all you want. It's not against rules here to criticize movies.

Thank you.

Perfect responses.

 

[Alex Logan]

I have no intention of buying it or watching it again except maybe clips on Youtube for reference points for when I want to criticize it.

I'm a Batman fan and this movie failed me as a fan. If I want to talk about it as a fan then I will. You can moan about that all you want. It's not against rules here to criticize movies.

Thank you.

Perfect responses.

Thank you for proving my point. My post was direct at people just like you.

No, this film didn't fail you, you failed yourself. And you're the one moaning.

 

[Fudgie]

Thank you for proving my point. My post was direct at people just like you.

People with the right to criticize a movie they disliked? Awesome.

No, this film didn't fail you, you failed yourself.

Could you have posted a more dumb comeback?

And you're the one moaning.

Yeah so are you. At least mine is direct toward a movie. I'm not moaning about the moaning like you.

 

[Alex Logan]

People with the right to criticize a movie they disliked? Awesome.

There is nothing wrong with analyzing this film, I've done it and many others have too. What you are going is flat out ridiculous and your last post proves that.

Could have posted a more dumb comeback?

Facts are not dumb. If you really think that this film failed you as a fan than you've missed out on quite a lot. If you really hate this film that bad than I'm sorry for you.

Yeah so are you. At least mine is direct toward a movie. I'm not moaning about the moaning like you.

Actually no, I'm not. My post was part joke and part truth. You really think people are enjoying the nonsense coming from both sides? There's a reason the conversation has become stagnant. It's time to move on, if you love it than great, if you don't than that's great too. Let's move on dude.

 

[Fudgie]

There is nothing wrong with analyzing this film, I've done it and many others have too. What you are going is flat out ridiculous and your last post proves that.

I've analyzed the movie plenty. I get into talks and discussions. I praise the great ones that happen, too. All my last post proves is I won't be talked down to by someone telling me I have failed myself because I disliked a Batman movie.

Facts are not dumb.

When you post some I'll agree with you. Til then your personal opinions of me are not facts. You keep insulting me and I'll report ya. Telling me I failed myself. Who do ya think you are?

If you really think that this film failed you as a fan than you've missed out on quite a lot. If you really hate this film that bad than I'm sorry for you.

Why would you be sorry for me? It's a movie. I'm not hating my parents here. I am disliking a bad Batman movie. You reckon I've missed out on a lot. Well they say one man's trash is another man's treasure.

Actually no, I'm not. My post was part joke and part truth. You really think people are enjoying nonsense coming from both sides? There's a reason the conversation has become stagnant. It's time to move on, if you love than great, if you don't than that's great too. Let's move on dude.

I didn't start nothing. I responded to your post having a go at those of us who dislike this movie. We have a right to be here as anyone else. This ain't a fan club forum for it.

 

[Alex Logan]

I've analyzed the movie plenty. I get into talks and discussions. I praise the great ones that happen, too. All my last post proves is I won't be talked down to by someone telling me I have failed myself because I disliked a Batman movie.

I wasn't talking down to anyone. This was the post I was talking about:

I have no intention of buying it or watching it again except maybe clips on Youtube for reference points for when I want to criticize it.

I'm a Batman fan and this movie failed me as a fan. If I want to talk about it as a fan then I will. You can moan about that all you want. It's not against rules here to criticize movies.

Thank you.

Perfect responses.

This post proves what I was saying.

When you post some I'll agree with you. Til then your personal opinions of me are not facts. You keep insulting me and I'll report ya. Telling me I failed myself. Who do ya think you are?

Insulting you was not my intention, but you instuled me first so I guess that makes us even.

Why would you be sorry for me? It's a movie. I'm not hating my parents here. I am disliking a bad Batman movie. You reckon I've missed out on a lot. Well they say one man's trash is another man's treasure.

I didn't start nothing. I responded to your post having a go at those of us who dislike this movie. We have a right to be here as anyone else. This ain't a fan club forum for it.

Dude... What are you talking about? This post:

This can fixed very easily...

Those of you who think Nolan made a poor film... never speak of it, don't buy it and never watch it again. It's Spiderman 3 and Blade 3 combined into one, it's total crap and it doesn't exsit. You hate this film.

Those of you who think Nolan made fantastic film... yell from the mountain tops, buy an hundred copies and watch it unilt the end of time. It's Citizen Kane and Metropolis combined into one, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and it will live forever. You love this film.

Problem solved, argument over, lock thread forever. Thank you.

was directed at people on both sides. Everyone. Get it? You've managed to suck the fun right out this topic. So go ahead, bash the film into oblivion, I've had enough of the madness in this thead.

 

[Nevincer]

An avatar back in your user name and a great post to go with it.

Welcome back, Nev

Thanks for the kind words. t: Happy to be back, lots of good discussions going on here and I felt it was finally time to chime in.

Totally agree. It's a very ambitious movie, I'll give it an A for that, but it needs either to have less or more, less going on to make it a tighter story, or more time allocated to it to properly tell the story they were trying to tell. There's enough story in this film to span an entire 12 episode HBO series.

Exactly. I rewatched TDK the day before I went to see TDKR and was awed at how tight it was considering all the things going on in it, and this sadly made the pacing issues in TDKR more visible. I remember back during the promotion being genuinely surprised as I learnt of new plotpoints and scenes in the film which weren't the focus of the main trailers, I thought "wow, they've shown us nothing yet!" but fact of the matter is they had, it's just that so many of these subplots are glossed over so fast all the development and ramifications you expect them to have end up being almost inconsequential to the overall beast.

As a fan it's kind of sad, you see I "like" a lot of these things Team Nolan aspired to do with TDKR, it's not something like say personally for me the Star Wars Prequels that I can just easily hate or discard from my headcanon, because there are lot of rich ideas and performances in the film that feel interesting and charming to me. It's the whole equation that feels off, and it's sad that Nolan swears against extended cuts because that could have been the opportunity to mend a lot of these problems. I mean pacing isn't the only problem for me, there are some story decisions I didn't like or could have just done without (Daggett, Blake), there was some very dated CGI which was odd for a film of this nature, and the final shot of the film I think was an awful choice. It wouldn't have made TDKR perfect in my eyes but it would have redeemed a lot of things.

 

[shauner111]

Ill come back to this thread only this one time because i dont want to argue with certain people, whom no matter what we cant win an argument with. Only in this post will i say what i feel regarding some folks.

I loved the final shot of Rises and had zero problems with the story decisions regarding Daggett, Foley or Blake. Maybe because i enjoy the actors, but also because i found it all made sense to me. Nothing felt off or "too much" so im not sure what people are seeing when they talk about flaws. Daggett and Foley represented something that fit with the plot.

Maybe im biased with this whole trilogy, i dont know. I defend it completely because there's nothing i didnt like about the 3 films. I dont defend it because it's the cool thing to do, i just genuinely love the trilogy...love TDKR and love Nolans take on Robin.

For people talking about "you've lost the point when you say words like IN MY OPINION or FOR ME PERSONALLY" or whatever?? That's B.S because all we have with ANY artform whether it's music, film..are opinions. NOTHING is fact unless it's straight out of the mouths of the people who created these movies. And even those people like the Nolan brothers & Goyer are just telling it like how they see it. Everybody has their own interpretation and none of it is wrong. I just simply dont understand how people can dig up all these so-called flaws, and problems with Blake, etc. That's ME and how i see these reactions. Yes i said it, it's my opinion. Everything Trav or Fudgie or whoever says is nothing but an interpretation and everything me or Logan says is nothing more/nothing less.

We can have a discussion or argument about Blake and if he was handled correctly, fine but dont say Conjecture this, Conjecture that makes our posts irrelevant. Why cant you guys accept that you see a movie one way, and some of us see it another way. If you dont like it say "i dont like this part, or this movie but that's just me and how i see things. My Batman is a different Batman, and im more of a purist for this Batman concept or that concept..but hey doesnt make it poor, i just dont like it". But no you have to yell it from the rooftops, that it's a crap movie and that we should only talk about the "facts". At least i yell from the rooftops how amazing i thought it was, because this is MY BATMAN. And i found the story made sense, but it's just me...and we simply see it differently.

Me and Logan are always willing to say "it's our view of it only, this is how we saw the story." It's why Logan tells you to leave if you dont like it cuz ur sucking the fun out of the thread. Fudgie just said that he wont buy this movie, and it's ****, and not his Batman, and he'll look at youtube clips just to criticize it. Lmao fine then why are you still here?????? If you enjoyed the movie but had a few nitpicks, then this is what a thread is here for, for discussion. But if you hate this film then why are you flooding the thread with horse****, maybe start going to the Batman Begins or The Dark KNight thread. Or take it to the reboot section.

 

[Lord]

I liked John Blake, much better than what i expected and he had a decent role.

 

[Lasirius]

I liked John Blake as well. I think he served the purpose the story wanted to make, I have no major complaints.

I do think the movie should had been a tad longer having more scenes with Bruce and/or Selina but that would be only because I liked the characters so much that I want to see more of them.

If Blake have had less screen-time there would also be an uproar of how an underdeveloped character was so important to the story.

 

[pisker]

I loved blake. JGL, as always, did a fantastic job. And I also loved the ending. It was a great choice IMO because it showed that batman didn't lose after all and bruce can now live a normal life

 

[Alex Logan]

Ill come back to this thread only this one time because i dont want to argue with certain people, whom no matter what we cant win an argument with. Only in this post will i say what i feel regarding some folks.

I loved the final shot of Rises and had zero problems with the story decisions regarding Daggett, Foley or Blake. Maybe because i enjoy the actors, but also because i found it all made sense to me. Nothing felt off or "too much" so im not sure what people are seeing when they talk about flaws. Daggett and Foley represented something that fit with the plot.

Maybe im biased with this whole trilogy, i dont know. I defend it completely because there's nothing i didnt like about the 3 films. I dont defend it because it's the cool thing to do, i just genuinely love the trilogy...love TDKR and love Nolans take on Robin.

For people talking about "you've lost the point when you say words like IN MY OPINION or FOR ME PERSONALLY" or whatever?? That's B.S because all we have with ANY artform whether it's music, film..are opinions. NOTHING is fact unless it's straight out of the mouths of the people who created these movies. And even those people like the Nolan brothers & Goyer are just telling it like how they see it. Everybody has their own interpretation and none of it is wrong. I just simply dont understand how people can dig up all these so-called flaws, and problems with Blake, etc. That's ME and how i see these reactions. Yes i said it, it's my opinion. Everything Trav or Fudgie or whoever says is nothing but an interpretation and everything me or Logan says is nothing more/nothing less.

We can have a discussion or argument about Blake and if he was handled correctly, fine but dont say Conjecture this, Conjecture that makes our posts irrelevant. Why cant you guys accept that you see a movie one way, and some of us see it another way. If you dont like it say "i dont like this part, or this movie but that's just me and how i see things. My Batman is a different Batman, and im more of a purist for this Batman concept or that concept..but hey doesnt make it poor, i just dont like it". But no you have to yell it from the rooftops, that it's a crap movie and that we should only talk about the "facts". At least i yell from the rooftops how amazing i thought it was, because this is MY BATMAN. And i found the story made sense, but it's just me...and we simply see it differently.

Me and Logan are always willing to say "it's our view of it only, this is how we saw the story." It's why Logan tells you to leave if you dont like it cuz ur sucking the fun out of the thread. Fudgie just said that he wont buy this movie, and it's ****, and not his Batman, and he'll look at youtube clips just to criticize it. Lmao fine then why are you still here?????? If you enjoyed the movie but had a few nitpicks, then this is what a thread is here for, for discussion. But if you hate this film then why are you flooding the thread with horse****, maybe start going to the Batman Begins or The Dark KNight thread. Or take it to the reboot section.

Well said. Everything comes down to interpretation and opinions, no one is right or wrong. We don't have ulterior motives, we're not pointing fingers and we're not trying to bully anyone who doesn't like this film. Not everyone here can say that.

I agree fully, this is MY Batman. I've been a Batman fan for over 25 years and this trilogy changed my ideas about what Batman can be. That's a powerful message to fan like myself. If it's not YOUR Batman than I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[Mito88]

i agree, didnt like the character and took to much screen time, it was terrible.

 

[Dark Guardian]

We don't have arterial motives

I sure hope you don't have designs on my arteries...

 

[Alex Logan]

I sure hope you don't have designs on my arteries...

Ha ha ha, opps. Thanks.

 

[Slushy]

I didn't mind John Blake. I just hated the fact his name was John Blake instead of being revealed to be Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, or TIM DRAKE at the end!

 

[BH/HHH]

John Blake was one of the best things about the movie in my opinion. I don't think there's much wrong with Rises, little nitpicks yeah but nothing thats so bad it stopped me rating the film a 10. Tbh I'd say one of the biggest flaws for me was Matthew Modine's awful performance, he was so corny and Bane's voice which I don't think worked personally but like I said nothing stopped me rating it a 10. I do think there are a few other things but nothing bugs me in this film to the level of stuff that bugs me in say Superman Returns.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I didn't mind John Blake. I just hated the fact his name was John Blake instead of being revealed to be Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, or TIM DRAKE at the end!

Those names would have meant nothing to the general audience.

If you go back into the old John Blake threads you'll see even though a lot of people had guessed he would be Robin/Nightwing, even though at first I liked the idea, I grew to resent it. Because it wouldn't be the Robin I wanted to see, who would be taken in as a subordinate grow, mature and step out of Batman's shadow and become his equal.

However, with the way it was done, I actually ended up quite pleased. John Blake was a very good character, played very well by Joe with a lot of integrity and charisma. It's the best I could've asked for from this series.

He served the fundamental purpose of Robin, he shared the same experience as the audience, and he serves as the successor to Batman as well as his sidekick.

Hopefully, peoples stigma with Robin is gone and we can see him done even better next time around.

 

[Lord]

Because of Bane and most of what i saw in the trailers i wasn't expecting much of the film, when i saw it i wasn't disapointing, i liked the scale, i liked the way Nolan incorporated Robin to the story.

 

[BatLobster]

He served the fundamental purpose of Robin, he shared the same experience as the audience, and he serves as the successor to Batman as well as his sidekick.

Hopefully, peoples stigma with Robin is gone and we can see him done even better next time around.

Agreed, I thought Blake being the audience surrogate in the film was a perfect way to strip the character down to the essence of Robin which is what these films have always strived to do with their characterizations.

I also think they did the overall mythos a huge service by "tricking" a lot of the general audience into liking a version of Robin, and I think this definitely has plants a seed of excitement for the next Batman film franchise to have Robin and/or Nightwing. Obviously it was already there with a lot of fans, but I think they definitely elevated Robin's overall respect factor in the general audience by giving him such focus in the poignant closing moments of the film.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Those names would have meant nothing to the general audience.

Exactly. Plus, it would have made no sense to have his character be called Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, or Tim Drake if Nolan wasn't going to use their backstories for the character. Had he been named Dick Grayson, there would have been such a s***t storm over how Nolan ignored his circus roots. Besides the idea of this character was to honor all of the Robins and the idea of a successor to Batman and that couldn't be done with just singling out one specific Robin.

If you go back into the old John Blake threads you'll see even though a lot of people had guessed he would be Robin/Nightwing, even though at first I liked the idea, I grew to resent it. Because it wouldn't be the Robin I wanted to see, who would be taken in as a subordinate grow, mature and step out of Batman's shadow and become his equal.

However, with the way it was done, I actually ended up quite pleased. John Blake was a very good character, played very well by Joe with a lot of integrity and charisma. It's the best I could've asked for from this series.

He served the fundamental purpose of Robin, he shared the same experience as the audience, and he serves as the successor to Batman as well as his sidekick.

Hopefully, peoples stigma with Robin is gone and we can see him done even better next time around.

He was my second favorite ally to Batman in this trilogy behind Gordon. A lot of that credit goes to how well I liked JGL in the role. Although I still would have liked the character anyway, not sure I would have liked him as much had he been played by someone else.

 

[Human Torch]

Exactly. Plus, it would have made no sense to have his character be called Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, or Tim Drake if Nolan wasn't going to use their backstories for the character. Had he been named Dick Grayson, there would have been such a s***t storm over how Nolan ignored his circus roots. Besides the idea of this character was to honor all of the Robins and the idea of a successor to Batman and that couldn't be done with just singling out one specific Robin.

This.

 

[shauner111]

People see it like Nolan was disrepecting the character of Robin, or specifically Grayson. But it's like the other way around. Nolan was honouring Robin by paying homage to ALL of them. Honouring the concept of Batman having a successor by including certain personality traits & backrounds from each of them.