The Dark Knight Rises Agree or Disagree: John Blake is the root of the problems in TDKR

[JackWhite]

People see it like Nolan was disrepecting the character of Robin, or specifically Grayson. But it's like the other way around. Nolan was honouring Robin by paying homage to ALL of them. Honouring the concept of Batman having a successor by including certain personality traits & backrounds from each of them.

Agreed, even though IMO, Nolan took the most liberties with Robin/Blake. But it's really no sweat off my back, because I did not want Blake to suit up and fight alongside Batman in costume. Having Robin Blake become Batman's successor rather than his sidekick gelled a lot better with me.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah for me as well. I was never the biggest fanboy of Robin suiting up in a costume, fighting next to Batman. I like it now...in some comics, but im not sure if ill ever like it in a movie. I only started warming up to him as i got older & it was through the other versions of Robin. Of course i love certain things about Grayson but not everything. Plus i didnt want to see his circus-origin after Batman Forever. So Nolans version never bothered me.

Having Robin become the guy that Batman passes his torch to instead? I thought that was a really cool & different way of treating the character. And if he does suit up in the future, he'll be doing it alone. And i like that a lot better.

 

[Slushy]

Those names would have meant nothing to the general audience.

If you go back into the old John Blake threads you'll see even though a lot of people had guessed he would be Robin/Nightwing, even though at first I liked the idea, I grew to resent it. Because it wouldn't be the Robin I wanted to see, who would be taken in as a subordinate grow, mature and step out of Batman's shadow and become his equal.

Well, its Nolan's movies. He could've told his own origin story for Robin just like he did with Batman. (Last time I checked in the original story, Bruce Wayne didn't become Batman by hanging out with a bunch of ninjas living in The Himalayas). Just honor the character by using his name. Batman is Bruce Wayne. Not Bob Smith.

 

[johnusher]

I'll not watch any Batman movie without Bruce(Christian Bale). In my point of view, he is the best for Batman Character.

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[shauner111]

Well, its Nolan's movies. He could've told his own origin story for Robin just like he did with Batman. (Last time I checked in the original story, Bruce Wayne didn't become Batman by hanging out with a bunch of ninjas living in The Himalayas). Just honor the character by using his name. Batman is Bruce Wayne. Not Bob Smith.

But he did...

This version didn't become Robin as a teenager or anything. They may not have shown what happened to him as a kid but the story was told. His "own origin story" was there.

 

[Alex Logan]

I'll not watch any Batman movie without Bruce(Christian Bale). In my point of view, he is the best for Batman Character.

I understand were you're coming from, but Bale can't be Batman forever. There will be a new Batman with a new actor one way or the other.

 

[Fudgie]

Well, its Nolan's movies. He could've told his own origin story for Robin just like he did with Batman. (Last time I checked in the original story, Bruce Wayne didn't become Batman by hanging out with a bunch of ninjas living in The Himalayas). Just honor the character by using his name. Batman is Bruce Wayne. Not Bob Smith.

It wasn't a proper version of Robin. It was a Cop who helped Batman who happened to inherit the Batman stuff because he feels stuff in his bones when he sees a millionaire looking depressed and angry

 

[Alex Logan]

Well, its Nolan's movies. He could've told his own origin story for Robin just like he did with Batman. (Last time I checked in the original story, Bruce Wayne didn't become Batman by hanging out with a bunch of ninjas living in The Himalayas). Just honor the character by using his name. Batman is Bruce Wayne. Not Bob Smith.

You would be wrong, that was part of his training. Read The Man Who Falls.

 

[Alex Logan]

It wasn't a proper version of Robin. It was a Cop who helped Batman who happened to inherit the Batman stuff because he feels stuff in his bones when he sees a millionaire looking depressed and angry

Here we go again... you didn't like it because it wasn't what you thought it sould be.

 

[Fudgie]

Here we go again... you didn't like it because it wasn't what you thought it sould be.

Yeah what reasons should I have for not liking it? If it doesn't meet someone's standards or makes creative decisions you think are poor then you don't like it. Damn good reasons to dislike something.

Get off your high horse and stop acting like I'm wrong for disliking it. You are the true definition of what a Nolanite is. Rolling your eyes and sniping at anyone who doesn't worship all of Nolan's decisions.

I ain't gonna apologize for disliking a version of Robin who's a Cop called John Blake who never once wore the cape and cowl, who guessed Bruce was Batman just because he saw he was hiding his pain over his parents death. Duh Bruce Wayne lost his parents as a kid. Public knowledge. How does that make him Batman? How does he know Wayne took the fall for Dent's death?

I watch a comic book movie to see comic book characters. I don't see a Cop called John Blake who goes around morally preaching and mingling with orphans when I think of a movie version of Robin. I think it's a damn bland and boring version of the character and I ain't going to stop saying so.

Deal with it.

 

[Alex Logan]

Yeah what reasons should I have for not liking it? If it doesn't meet someone's standards or makes creative decisions you think are poor then you don't like it. Damn good reasons not to dislike something.

Having standards or making creative decisions you think are poor is one thing, but those are not what you're talking about. The post you just made is about the context of the story no fitting the comics. If you're really that hung up on the source material than you must hate all of Nolan's Batman films.

Get off your high horse and stop acting like I'm wrong for disliking it. You are the true definition of what a Nolanite is. Rolling your eyes and sniping at anyone who doesn't worship all of Nolan's decisions.

You are the one on a high horse. I've seen you doing this in other threads, you bully anyone who disagrees with your opinion by making them feel inferior. So you can roll your eyes, but I can't? You need to be very careful with the name calling and judgements here.

I ain't gonna apologize for disliking a version of Robin who's a Cop called John Blake who never once wore the cape and cowl, who guessed Bruce was Batman just because he saw he was hiding his pain over his parents death. Duh Bruce Wayne lost his parents as a kid. Public knowledge. How does that make him Batman? How does he know Wayne took the fall for Dent's death?

Watch Dexter season one, maybe you'll get a better understanding of what they were talking about in that scene.

I watch a comic book movie to see comic book characters. I don't see a Cop called John Blake who goes around morally preaching and mingling with orphans when I think of a movie version of Robin. I think it's a damn bland and boring version of the character and I ain't going to stop saying so.

Deal with it.

Well, not only did you miss a lot in TDKR, but and you also missed the point of this whole trilogy. That's unfortunate, but oh well.

What's to deal with? You can dislike it all you want. I'm not trying to "make" you think anything.

 

[Travesty]

I find it ironic that the same people who keep repeating the phrase, "you can dislike it all you want" are the ones getting the most bent out of shape by other peoples opinions.

 

[shauner111]

I have no problem with Fudgie not liking Nolans version of Robin whatsoever. He's entitled. He said it himself , "i watch a comic book movie to see comic book characters. I dont see a cop called John Blake...when i think of a movie version of Robin" etc.

No problem. But that's just his taste. For me? It probably has to do with my own tastes, and if somebody around the days of Begins or Dark Knight asked me "If Nolan were to include Robin in some sort of way...what would you like to see?" I would have said that i wouldnt want to see the teenage Dick Grayson coming from the circus to put on a suit so he can fight alongside the Batman.

Different strokes for different folks. What could be bland to one person is something that might be up my alley. What could be corny to me, could be right up someone elses alley. I just dont like it when i see somebody going on and on VERY SPECIFICALLY that the movie is crap and this version is NOT Robin (saying it like it's 100% fact) & how the story doesnt match up with the other movies, etc. All we have is opinions. We're not filmmakers or writers of this trilogy, we're just fans so we're all entitled to like or dislike something but coming on here just to bash something over & over? I dont get that. There are other forums that represent a different kind of Batman or Robin if that's your cup of tea.

 

[Travesty]

Oh jesus Shauner, what do you think this very thread is for? You just happen to disagree, which is fine, but why do you keep acting like this thread isn't a designated area to talk about how we don't like Blake? This isn't the "everything you like about Blake" thread.

And what exactly do you not get? Do you see anybody saying to you, "I don't understand why you keep coming in this thread, just to praise something over and over again...I don't get that". No, because we're fine if you like it. And it's strange how I keep seeing you say "you can dislike it all you want/opinions are fine", but then go off on how wrong it is to come in and state an opinion, or to even have one that isn't the same as yours. Hell, I didn't even want to touch your other long diatribe, because of how much you kept contradicting yourself. And nowhere did I say the movie is total crap, you just keep acting like I did.

If you want to debate with people, then debate with them. Agree or disagree with them, it shouldn't matter, this is a forum which has people with different opinions. I keep seeing how much you detest my posts/opinions, but I haven't seen you once actually address it with me or debate my points. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and make offhand comments about my posts without actually addressing anything other than saying something like "you don't get this movie. I do, and everything you say doesn't make sense. I'm baffled by your post", even though you're not explaining or debating anything. Somehow it's wrong of me to actually explain what I didn't like about Blake in a thread designated for it, yet, it's perfectly fine for you to come in and tell me how wrong I am for addressing those issues in a thread designed around it. Gotcha...

 

[The Joker]

Yeah what reasons should I have for not liking it? If it doesn't meet someone's standards or makes creative decisions you think are poor then you don't like it. Damn good reasons to dislike something.

Get off your high horse and stop acting like I'm wrong for disliking it. You are the true definition of what a Nolanite is. Rolling your eyes and sniping at anyone who doesn't worship all of Nolan's decisions.

I ain't gonna apologize for disliking a version of Robin who's a Cop called John Blake who never once wore the cape and cowl, who guessed Bruce was Batman just because he saw he was hiding his pain over his parents death. Duh Bruce Wayne lost his parents as a kid. Public knowledge. How does that make him Batman? How does he know Wayne took the fall for Dent's death?

I watch a comic book movie to see comic book characters. I don't see a Cop called John Blake who goes around morally preaching and mingling with orphans when I think of a movie version of Robin. I think it's a damn bland and boring version of the character and I ain't going to stop saying so.

Deal with it.

Good on you. This thread, and certainly not this forum is not a fan club. By all means be as critical as you like about this movie and don't let anyone here put you down for it.

I find it ironic that the same people who keep repeating the phrase, "you can dislike it all you want" are the ones getting the most bent out of shape by other peoples opinions.

I thought I was the only one who spotted that irony

Oh jesus Shauner, what do you think this very thread is for? You just happen to disagree, which is fine, but why do you keep acting like this thread isn't a designated area to talk about how we don't like Blake? This isn't the "everything you like about Blake" thread.

And what exactly do you not get? Do you see anybody saying to you, "I don't understand why you keep coming in this thread, just to praise something over and over again...I don't get that". No, because we're fine if you like it. And it's strange how I keep seeing you say "you can dislike it all you want/opinions are fine", but then go off on how wrong it is to come in and state an opinion, or to even have one that isn't the same as yours. Hell, I didn't even want to touch your other long diatribe, because of how much you kept contradicting yourself. And nowhere did I say the movie is total crap, you just keep acting like I did.

If you want to debate with people, then debate with them. Agree or disagree with them, it shouldn't matter, this is a forum which has people with different opinions. I keep seeing how much you detest my posts/opinions, but I haven't seen you once actually address it with me or debate my points. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and make offhand comments about my posts without actually addressing anything other than saying something like "you don't get this movie. I do, and everything you say doesn't make sense. I'm baffled by your post", even though you're not explaining or debating anything. Somehow it's wrong of me to actually explain what I didn't like about Blake in a thread designated for it, yet, it's perfectly fine for you to come in and tell me how wrong I am for addressing those issues in a thread designed around it. Gotcha...

Well said

Anyway Shauner, I thought you said you were done with this thread when you left on the condescending note about people not liking or "getting" it: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24350305&postcount=250

 

[shauner111]

Oh jesus Shauner, what do you think this very thread is for? You just happen to disagree, which is fine, but why do you keep acting like this thread isn't a designated area to talk about how we don't like Blake? This isn't the "everything you like about Blake" thread.

And what exactly do you not get? Do you see anybody saying to you, "I don't understand why you keep coming in this thread, just to praise something over and over again...I don't get that". No, because we're fine if you like it. And it's strange how I keep seeing you say "you can dislike it all you want/opinions are fine", but then go off on how wrong it is to come in and state an opinion, or to even have one that isn't the same as yours. Hell, I didn't even want to touch your other long diatribe, because of how much you kept contradicting yourself. And nowhere did I say the movie is total crap, you just keep acting like I did.

If you want to debate with people, then debate with them. Agree or disagree with them, it shouldn't matter, this is a forum which has people with different opinions. I keep seeing how much you detest my posts/opinions, but I haven't seen you once actually address it with me or debate my points. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and make offhand comments about my posts without actually addressing anything other than saying something like "you don't get this movie. I do, and everything you say doesn't make sense. I'm baffled by your post", even though you're not explaining or debating anything. Somehow it's wrong of me to actually explain what I didn't like about Blake in a thread designated for it, yet, it's perfectly fine for you to come in and tell me how wrong I am for addressing those issues in a thread designed around it. Gotcha...

I never said that you called the movie crap, if i recall Fudgie was the one who said this. And that he wouldnt buy the movie, only watch clips on youtube to criticize it. So i wasnt talking about you.

My last post was not a response to you. I read Logan and Fudgies post. But since you're involved, let me clear this up. Yes i contradict myself, im sure you do too, we all do. I dont remember every single post i do, i type in the moment and maybe my mind has changed from "this is the trilogy, and you probably just dont get it" to how i think this moment. Which is "we both see it two different ways and we're both entitled". So ill apologize now if i made you think that i was on a high horse like i was Mr. I CAN SPEAK ABOUT HOW MUCH I LIKE ROBIN BLAKE BUT YOU CANT TALK ABOUT HOW YOU HATE IT. Sorry for that.

But one stance that i stick by, is i still find it ridiculous when you guys (doesnt have to be you two) writes that Robin Blake is not Robin. That's just not true, it just means it's not your favourite version of the character. If Frank Miller can create one for his story, Christopher Nolan can create one for his own. And any real Batman fan can tell Blake had a little bit of Grayson , Drake and Todd in him. So he represents the idea of Robin rather than a clear-cut tribute to a single version. My final stance about that is if you dont like that version OK good for you but at the end of the day it's just 1 more different interpretation of who Robin is.

Ill gladly keep posting here if we can all just say "i dont like this part but OK man that's how you see it". Without downplaying a persons opinion like YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE MOVIE THEN! (which im guilty of) or YOUR POST MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE IT'S ALL CONJECTURE (which im paraphrasing but i remember you acting like this Trav).

Everythings an opinion. And let's all just agree to disagree.

 

[Alex Logan]

I find it ironic that the same people who keep repeating the phrase, "you can dislike it all you want" are the ones getting the most bent out of shape by other peoples opinions.

I find it ironic that you think "we" are getting bend out of shape. The only person acting angry is Fudgie. And the last time I checked "we" were not calling people names and forming judgements.

 

[Alex Logan]

I never said that you called the movie crap, if i recall Fudgie was the one who said this. And that he wouldnt buy the movie, only watch clips on youtube to criticize it. So i wasnt talking about you.

My last post was not a response to you. I read Logan and Fudgies post. But since you're involved, let me clear this up. Yes i contradict myself, im sure you do too, we all do. I dont remember every single post i do, i type in the moment and maybe my mind has changed from "this is the trilogy, and you probably just dont get it" to how i think this moment. Which is "we both see it two different ways and we're both entitled". So ill apologize now if i made you think that i was on a high horse like i was Mr. I CAN SPEAK ABOUT HOW MUCH I LIKE ROBIN BLAKE BUT YOU CANT TALK ABOUT HOW YOU HATE IT. Sorry for that.

But one stance that i stick by, is i still find it ridiculous when you guys (doesnt have to be you two) writes that Robin Blake is not Robin. That's just not true, it just means it's not your favourite version of the character. If Frank Miller can create one for his story, Christopher Nolan can create one for his own. And any real Batman fan can tell Blake had a little bit of Grayson , Drake and Todd in him. So he represents the idea of Robin rather than a clear-cut tribute to a single version. My final stance about that is if you dont like that version OK good for you but at the end of the day it's just 1 more different interpretation of who Robin is.

Ill gladly keep posting here if we can all just say "i dont like this part but OK man that's how you see it". Without downplaying a persons opinion like YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE MOVIE THEN! (which im guilty of) or YOUR POST MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE IT'S ALL CONJECTURE (which im paraphrasing but i remember you acting like this Trav).

Everythings an opinion. And let's all just agree to disagree.

This is part of the thread that people just don't "get". They can't agree to disagree. They have to ram their own opinions down your throat.

 

[Caboose]

This is part of the thread that people just don't "get". They can't agree to disagree. They have to ram their own opinions down your throat.

You mean like you're doing? Oh.

 

[solidsnake86]

Exactly. Plus, it would have made no sense to have his character be called Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, or Tim Drake if Nolan wasn't going to use their backstories for the character. Had he been named Dick Grayson, there would have been such a s***t storm over how Nolan ignored his circus roots. Besides the idea of this character was to honor all of the Robins and the idea of a successor to Batman and that couldn't be done with just singling out one specific Robin.





He was my second favorite ally to Batman in this trilogy behind Gordon. A lot of that credit goes to how well I liked JGL in the role. Although I still would have liked the character anyway, not sure I would have liked him as much had he been played by someone else.

I definitely agree with this. I thought JGL did a great job with the character, even though when you stop to think about how he knew bruce was batman it was a stretch. That said I thought his acting was superb.

I thought the Robin thing was a nice nod to all the robin's.

As for the title of the thread I'm going to disagree. Not exactly sure how the character is the "root" of the problem in the movie.

I would imagine if you didn't like the film it would have more to do with the actual story rather than a side character.

 

[Viper81]

I don't get why people bring up the fact that bruce trained for seven years to be batman and blake has no training. Just because he finds the bat cave does not mean that he will become batman that very instant. There is no scene where Blake dons a cape and becomes batman. We se him find the cave...end movie. For all we know, it would take him a few years to get into the role.

Also, I loved the orphanage subplot. It really gave the movie a gritty reality in a way the other movies do not. Plus, the scene where they enter wayne mansion was a powerful scene for me. It really showed the good hearted nature of bruce, something that was starting to get lost in all the brute fighting he did. We needed the orphan scene to show us that bruce did not get lost in the monster...it was a fantastic scene of redmption and closure for the character.

 

[Alex Logan]

You mean like you're doing? Oh.

Hello...

 

[shauner111]

I don't get why people bring up the fact that bruce trained for seven years to be batman and blake has no training. Just because he finds the bat cave does not mean that he will become batman that very instant. There is no scene where Blake dons a cape and becomes batman. We se him find the cave...end movie. For all we know, it would take him a few years to get into the role.

Also, I loved the orphanage subplot. It really gave the movie a gritty reality in a way the other movies do not. Plus, the scene where they enter wayne mansion was a powerful scene for me. It really showed the good hearted nature of bruce, something that was starting to get lost in all the brute fighting he did. We needed the orphan scene to show us that bruce did not get lost in the monster...it was a fantastic scene of redmption and closure for the character.

 

[Human Torch]

Personally,I'd have loved to see Robin/Dick Grayson in his comic origin at some point.But I knew Nolan wasn't going there,so I'm glad he gave some type of nod to the character.

I guess overall, I'm happy with what Nolan gave us,but bring on a more comic faithful reboot next time.That's all I ask.

 

[Slushy]

Ironically, I would've liked Blake better if he wasn't revealed to be "Robin". To me, it was a cheap ploy and a cop out (yes, pun intended.)

You would be wrong, that was part of his training. Read The Man Who Falls.

I was referring to Detective Comics #33.