All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - Part 84

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[The_Raganork]

B- is disappointing then you had hopes way too high for a reboot.

Or maybe ehe had High Hopes that it'd be a well together written film and not several plot points strung together for the sake of action.

Or maybe not.

 

[NonKryptonian]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni_Boy
Eh, I wouldn't say indestructible. They really powered Supes down in this one. My gripe is how Kal (farm boy) and Jor-El (scientist) BOTH could easily take down the biggest, baddest GENETICALLY ENGINEERED warrior of the Kryptinian military. Dude can't get out of a headlock?

My take on it was, even though someone is genetically engineered for a certain task, there is still enough variation for different levels of capacity. Obviously Jor-El is the foremost scientist but it never seemed he was one among equals. I think beyond the traits and the training there is still variation and that is why you don't have identical clones all in one guild. Whether the variation was creative force beyond even their advanced ability to prevent, or whether that was also part of the engineering I don't know. Nam-Ek is nine feet tall but he is the only Kryptonian shown that size. Maybe genetically all people of the hose of Ek are big but no one was even close of the all the other warriors in the warrior guild shown. His genetic coding may have assigned certain traits but I am guessing he was a Goliath figure, maybe a once in a few millennium occurrence. Otherwise why not halve all the warriors hulking giants?

Likewise for Jor-El i think he was probably genetically coded for scientific aptitude and trained accordingly but whatever variation is in the mix made Jor-El not just the foremost scientist but a bada$$ fighter but also compassionate, a deep thinker and believer in peacefully trying to change the course of Krypton. Exactly what you would expect Kal-El's Kryptonian father to be. Kal-El inherited those traits as children do.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poni_Boy
Eh, I wouldn't say indestructible. They really powered Supes down in this one. My gripe is how Kal (farm boy) and Jor-El (scientist) BOTH could easily take down the biggest, baddest GENETICALLY ENGINEERED warrior of the Kryptinian military. Dude can't get out of a headlock?

My take on it was, even though someone is genetically engineered for a certain task, there is still enough variation for different levels of capacity. Obviously Jor-El is the foremost scientist but it never seemed he was one among equals. I think beyond the traits and the training there is still variation and that is why you don't have identical clones all in one guild. Whether the variation was creative force beyond even their advanced ability to prevent, or whether that was also part of the engineering I don't know. Nam-Ek is nine feet tall but he is the only Kryptonian shown that size. Maybe genetically all people of the hose of Ek are big but no one was even close of the all the other warriors in the warrior guild shown. He genetic coding may have assigned certain traits but I am guessing he was a Goliath figure, maybe a once in a few millennium occurrence. Otherwise why not halve all the warriors hulking giants?

Likewise for Jor-El i think he was probably genetically coded for scientific aptitude and trained accordingly but whatever variation is in the mix made Jor-El not just the foremost scientist but a bada$$ fighter but also compassionate, a deep thinker and believer in peacefully trying to change the course of Krypton. Exactly what you would expect Kal-El's Kryptonian father to be. Kal-El inherited those traits as children do.

Sorry don't buy that. Jor-El could have trained in Kryptonian Krav Maga for the past ten years off screen but since there's no reference there's no context. they specifically say he's their genetically engineered lead scientist. It just came across as lazy that when he was apprehended by a bunch of generically engineered soldiers he easily took them all out. Splat. And then Zod. I would totally have bought it if he had given those soldiers the slip and maybe if he had some weapon that he had created to hold off Zod (he was a scientist after all) but he just knocked everyone out. Their genetic disposition doesn't seem to mean spit.

 

[Dr Magneto Doom]

I still don't get why some are complaining about Zod's ending.. as far as I am concerned Superman killed all 3 in Superman II by throwing them down to wherever that was. Only difference is this one was more shocking and gruesome.. which made it more awesome and powerful. To whoever it was saying Zod could have got out of the headlock, I am sure he can but at the same time that is not a definite plus like someone else said maybe Zod pretty much gave up at that stage and was not afraid of what would happen to him.

This film does not deserve all the bad reviews. Only problem is that the film was not long enough to have screen time to all characters to develop. If they did a 2 1/2 hour film about superman's landing on earth, krypton and growing up, how his earth parents showed him how to be etc.. that alone could fill those two hours.. but then critics and fans would complain about the lack of action or an equal to superman. What they did here is mix all that in a 2 1/2 hour film and it was never going to satisfy everyone. Even if they cut 20 minutes from the action scenes and instead used them for character build up it still won't be enough and we all know this.

The biggest mistake the director did is try to satisfy all the complaints from previous films about the lack of action and a villain that could challenge Superman cause lets be honest, all the Lex Luthors in the previous superman films have been crap. Lets not mention superman 3 and 4 villains as well.

It seems like critics and who ever is giving this movie a bad review, would want a 5 hour or so film to explain every little detail to superman's actions and that was never going to happen. If that is what you want, watch Smallville.

 

[DaJanksta]

Or maybe ehe had High Hopes that it'd be a well together written film and not several plot points strung together for the sake of action.

Or maybe not.

Lol. You are entitled to your opinion. B- isn't a disappointing film to me. Like I said you have to know what to expect from a reboot. At least he liked it. I'm glad I loved it.

 

[ElDuderino]

Through promotional partnerships and two days of release (just domestic), this movie is already profitable. At a minimum it'll make another 600mm in worldwide. Plus merchandise and bluray will be huge. I think its pretty safe to we've got a franchise here.

 

[NonKryptonian]

t

Sorry don't buy that. Jor-El could have trained in Kryptonian Krav Maga for the past ten years off screen but since there's no reference there's no context. they specifically say he's their genetically engineered lead scientist. It just came across as lazy that when he was apprehended by a bunch of generically engineered soldiers he easily took them all out. Splat. And then Zod. I would totally have bought it if he had given those soldiers the slip and maybe if he had some weapon that he had created to hold off Zod (he was a scientist after all) but he just knocked everyone out. Their genetic disposition doesn't seem to mean spit.

We know he is a rebel and lives on the surface and he and Lara engaged in natural birth. Is he the foremost scientist, yes but he clearly more than any other Kryptonian walked his own path. My guess is that is why he wanted to go even further and have future Kryptonians be completely free of population control and societal engineering. That in itself is the context. It shows there has to be variation, either uncontrolled or by design. Otherwise all of the Science guild would have agreed with his assessments on mining the core or to go further, if he is the brightest, why not all the science guild Jor-El clones? It's because they still have birthing, even if artificial and as stated in the movie the codex contained over a billion of Krypton's heirs and while aptitudes were engineered they aren't all the same.

Again with Nam-Ek, why only one Nine footer? Why not a squad of them unless even amongst the billion/s? genetic templates stored in the codex there is still a uniqueness? Why was Jor-El smarter and wiser than anyone else? Why compassionate when most of the others seemed cold? Isn't possible that his uniqueness allowed other aptitudes than just science to be off the chart?

I think the context is what we saw because that was clear. Was Zod destined to be general or did he have to earn it throughout his life? The same for Faora? Zod and Faora were both military guild but both had completely different personalities and abilities. As one tracked as Zod was, he still seemed less cold and more contemplative than Faora.

 

[Dr Magneto Doom]

How much would have to be made for a film to be called successful now days? I can not wait for the dvd/blu-ray release. I am sure there will be a few extra good scenes cut off that were replaced for more action... then again some said only one scene was cut right?

 

[ElDuderino]

Sorry don't buy that. Jor-El could have trained in Kryptonian Krav Maga for the past ten years off screen but since there's no reference there's no context. they specifically say he's their genetically engineered lead scientist. It just came across as lazy that when he was apprehended by a bunch of generically engineered soldiers he easily took them all out. Splat. And then Zod. I would totally have bought it if he had given those soldiers the slip and maybe if he had some weapon that he had created to hold off Zod (he was a scientist after all) but he just knocked everyone out. Their genetic disposition doesn't seem to mean spit.

Why would he have armor and weaponry in his home if he isn't capable or trained? Zod wasn't trying to kill him when he entered. He was trying to apprehend him. Whereas Jor-El was fighting for his son's survival. If a Navy Seal were trying to apprehend me and I was a genetically engineered genius protecting my son with armor on I'd put up a helluva fight too. And all he did was stall him until Lara got the spaceship off. There are stupid arguments and then there's this type of argument.

 

[TheIrishAvenger]

I'm going to use your rating as an example of conflicting messages. You said "the movie was disappointing" and then gave it a B-. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. I'm not criticizing. I just can't follow your logic.

It's an enjoyable movie, I never said it was bad, it was just disappointing.

B- is disappointing then you had hopes way too high for a reboot.

My expectations weren't through the roof when I was heading into the cinema.

The 1st act with Krypton, Smallville and Clark finding his place in the world was all fantastic, but when Zod showed up, the whole movie went progressively downhill. It's an enjoyable movie, I would watch it again, but I was hoping for a better movie after the beginning of the film was so good.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Why would he have armor and weaponry in his home if he isn't capable or trained? Zod wasn't trying to kill him when he entered. He was trying to apprehend him. Whereas Jor-El was fighting for his son's survival. If a Navy Seal were trying to apprehend me and I was a genetically engineered genius protecting my son with armor on I'd put up a helluva fight too. And all he did was stall him until Lara got the spaceship off. There are stupid arguments and then there's this type of argument.

Like I said before, I could maybe buy the Zod fight but before that he took out four or five of Zod's soldiers in a row. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. No muss no fuss. It felt way too convenient. Just like Lois using a Kryptonian weapon dead eye on three soldiers because Holo-El told her where to point.

Stuff like this might be pedantic to you but when it happens over and over and over I start wondering if I missed something or if it's just sloppy writing.

 

[The_Raganork]

Like I said before, I could maybe buy the Zod fight but before that he took out four or five of Zod's soldiers in a row. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. No muss no fuss. It felt way too convenient. Just like Lois using a Kryptonian weapon dead eye on three soldiers because Holo-El told her where to point.

Stuff like this might be pedantic to you but when it happens over and over and over I start wondering if I missed something or if it's just sloppy writing.

It's a lack of writing. an excuse to get characters from point A to point B.

 

[NonKryptonian]

Why would he have armor and weaponry in his home if he isn't capable or trained? Zod wasn't trying to kill him when he entered. He was trying to apprehend him. Whereas Jor-El was fighting for his son's survival. If a Navy Seal were trying to apprehend me and I was a genetically engineered genius protecting my son with armor on I'd put up a helluva fight too. And all he did was stall him until Lara got the spaceship off. There are stupid arguments and then there's this type of argument.

A good point and one that is further touched upon when Faora and Clark are fighting. She seems to think she is superior because her personality doesn't allow her to distracted by moral decision or emotional distraction but clearly she can mourn as shown when she saw the destruction of Krypton. What she failed to realize is though Clark may be emotionally/morally distracted he is also far more emotionally invested which may grant more strength and conviction that any distractions that come with it.

 

[Midnight Black]

I can somewhat understand the argument that Jor shouldn't have been able to beat up Zod and two of his soldiers given that they were engineered to be warriors and he a scientist. However, it would seem that the whole Kryptonian race at least had some minimal warrior background given their civilization.

Also, I would argue that because Jor-el was the lead scientist and obviously sought to improve himself and evolve against what was planned for him I am sure he took liberties to improve his knowledge in many areas....including combat training.

 

[ElDuderino]

Like I said before, I could maybe buy the Zod fight but before that he took out four or five of Zod's soldiers in a row. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. No muss no fuss. It felt way too convenient. Just like Lois using a Kryptonian weapon dead eye on three soldiers because Holo-El told her where to point.

Stuff like this might be pedantic to you but when it happens over and over and over I start wondering if I missed something or if it's just sloppy writing.

I doubt they had orders to take him out. This is such a non-issue.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Then.. don't jump into the convo

 

[Poni_Boy]

It's a lack of writing. an excuse to get characters from point A to point B.

Yeah I guess it is. Was kinda wondering if I'd missed something like with the English language thing

 

[Marvin]

Their genetic disposition doesn't seem to mean spit.

Thought that was the point

 

[steelfighter]

Echoing the sentiment of the NETizens, it's very interesting to hear that a representative of Rotten Tomatoes is also in dismay after Man Of Steel only receives a rating of 58%.
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2479...box-office-preview/?playlist_id=2418215023001

I smell a big amount of money of some company to open the road to it's premiere next week... but the movie is a masterpiece and the critics are making nosense

 

[Stoic]

Yeah I guess it is. Was kinda wondering if I'd missed something like with the English language thing

That is one thing that bugged me. I wish they had done a bit where it is spoken Krytonese and subtitled and transferred to English during say, the council scene. That was lazy execution. No explanation that they speak no other language on their planet.

 

[Marvin]

Why would he have armor and weaponry in his home if he isn't capable or trained? Zod wasn't trying to kill him when he entered. He was trying to apprehend him. Whereas Jor-El was fighting for his son's survival. If a Navy Seal were trying to apprehend me and I was a genetically engineered genius protecting my son with armor on I'd put up a helluva fight too. And all he did was stall him until Lara got the spaceship off. There are stupid arguments and then there's this type of argument.

seems pretty simple to me^

More to the point I don't understand this engineered to be a genius thing, wouldn't that just mean dude has a higher capacity to learn and not that he's some kinda of lab geek.

 

[Poni_Boy]

That is one thing that bugged me. I wish they had done a bit where it is spoken Krytonese and subtitled and transferred to English during say, the council scene. That was lazy execution. No explanation that they speak no other language on their planet.

I asked about that yesterday and someone here told me that all the Kryptonians have translators in their suits so I must have missed that. Which is why I was asking about the Jor-El fighting stuff. Wasn't sure if I missed something else

 

[Dr.]

Echoing the sentiment of the NETizens, it's very interesting to hear that a representative of Rotten Tomatoes is also in dismay after Man Of Steel only receives a rating of 58%.
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2479...box-office-preview/?playlist_id=2418215023001

I smell a big amount of money of some company to open the road to it's premiere next week... but the movie is a masterpiece and the critics are making nosense

(Re: RT "conspiracy" thread moved here)

RT is owned by Flixster. And Flixter, in turn, is owned by Warner Bros. So it's an odd sort of conspiracy.