All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - Part 84

[NonKryptonian]

Like I said before, I could maybe buy the Zod fight but before that he took out four or five of Zod's soldiers in a row. Bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. No muss no fuss. It felt way too convenient. Just like Lois using a Kryptonian weapon dead eye on three soldiers because Holo-El told her where to point.

Stuff like this might be pedantic to you but when it happens over and over and over I start wondering if I missed something or if it's just sloppy writing.

In almost every continuity, whether this, prior movies, comics or cartoons, Jor-El was always portrayed to be a prodigy even among Kryptonians. Clearly Nolan and Goyer wanted to preserve those elements in their interpretation. Now the genetic and societal engineering in their canon really segregates Kryptonian society but I think the movie showed they still aren't monolithic clones even withing their guilds and Jor-El seemed to be something of an outlaw in mindset. Their are guilds, even families like El or Ur and so forth but everyone shown in the movie was unique. Look at the different fighting techniques between Zod, Faora, and Nam-Ek. IMHO, Faora was actually the most skilled hand to hand combatant and yet Zod was the leader.

 

[Stoic]

I asked about that yesterday and someone here told me that all the Kryptonians have translators in their suits so I must have missed that. Which is why I was asking about the Jor-El fighting stuff. Wasn't sure if I missed something else

Going to see it again with in-laws tomorrow. I will look for it, but I don't recall that.

 

[Poni_Boy]

seems pretty simple to me^

More to the point I don't understand this engineered to be a genius thing, wouldn't that just mean dude has a higher capacity to learn and not that he's some kinda of lab geek.

Two things I wish this movie would have "fixed" from the comics/Donner mythology: Jor-el only building a small ship for his son (never made any sense to me at all) and the Kryptonian counsel not listening to his warning about the planet being destroyed. I mean, he's THEIR guy for that kind of stuff. Never made sense

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Sorry don't buy that. Jor-El could have trained in Kryptonian Krav Maga for the past ten years off screen but since there's no reference there's no context. they specifically say he's their genetically engineered lead scientist. It just came across as lazy that when he was apprehended by a bunch of generically engineered soldiers he easily took them all out. Splat. And then Zod. I would totally have bought it if he had given those soldiers the slip and maybe if he had some weapon that he had created to hold off Zod (he was a scientist after all) but he just knocked everyone out. Their genetic disposition doesn't seem to mean spit.

Zod was not genetically bred to be the foremost warrior of Krypton. He was bred to be a military leader, his purpose was the protection of the continued existence of the Kryptonian species.

Also, Jor-El didn't just fight four soldiers. He had them disoriented with some sort of flashbang, so a man who would understand how people are bred to fight would be able to defeat four people with impaired senses.

The only Kryptonian who seemed to be a pure warrior was Nam-Ek.

 

[ElDuderino]

Then.. don't jump into the convo

The unfortunate thing about opinions is people think they can share them without someone pointing out how ridiculous they are.

 

[ElDuderino]

Two things I wish this movie would have "fixed" from the comics/Donner mythology: Jor-el only building a small ship for his son (never made any sense to me at all) and the Kryptonian counsel not listening to his warning about the planet being destroyed. I mean, he's THEIR guy for that kind of stuff. Never made sense

Bigger ship? Did the infant Kal-El need more room to walk around in the ship or something?

Stop reaching. The ship had always been small enough to fit in the Kent's barn, comics or otherwise.

 

[BH/HHH]

Btw can I just say whoever said Cavill barely speaks was talking s**t, he's got plenty of dialogue and definitely a lot more than Routh did in SRs.

 

[Midnight Black]

Two things I wish this movie would have "fixed" from the comics/Donner mythology: Jor-el only building a small ship for his son (never made any sense to me at all) and the Kryptonian counsel not listening to his warning about the planet being destroyed. I mean, he's THEIR guy for that kind of stuff. Never made sense

That has always been a problem I have had with the Supes mythos. Why not build a ship large enough to carry the family and why did the council not listen to their lead scientist.

That is why I always liked the brainiac angle of the council listening to brainiac their A.I. that would seem the most logical and smartest over their own countryman even if he was genetically engineered.

Also, if they would have given some sort of explanation as to why a baby size ship could only escape then I would have been satisfied.

 

[BH/HHH]

Bigger ship? Did the infant Kal-El need more room to walk around in the ship or something?

Stop reaching. The ship had always been small enough to fit in the Kent's barn.

Just imagine the poo stains in such a small space though

 

[steelfighter]

or maybe ehe had high hopes that it'd be a well together written film and not several plot points strung together for the sake of action.

Or maybe not.

the movie was awesome... A masterpiece... Well written story and mind-blowing effects....

 

[Poni_Boy]

Zod was not genetically bred to be the foremost warrior of Krypton. He was bred to be a military leader, his purpose was the protection of the continued existence of the Kryptonian species.

Also, Jor-El didn't just fight four soldiers. He had them disoriented with some sort of flashbang, so a man who would understand how people are bred to fight would be able to defeat four people with impaired senses.

The only Kryptonian who seemed to be a pure warrior was Nam-Ek.

I thought he gave a whole speech to Clark saying that he was right before he flew for the first time

Ahhh forgot that part. Makes A LOT more sense now. This is why I ask for clarification on stuff that seemed fishy. Thanks

 

[Dr Magneto Doom]

lol cant believe people are moaning about them not talking another language now. This is getting pathetic, some people need to go out more

 

[ElDuderino]

Just imagine the poo stains in such a small space though

Well, it only had about 30 or so minutes of flight time given the phantom drive or whatever it's called.

 

[The Shape]

Are we not forgetting that Superman spent a lifetime powering up in the sun? Sure, in the end and throughout the film, Zod may have been the better fighting. He was engineered to spend his life training, and to have the will to battle onwards no matter what. Kal-El never had the training or that kind of will until this threat prevented itself to him. But what he lacked in training he made up for on power. And since he is, you know, Superman, he was a fast learner when it came to fighting to mastering his abilities. It's not that he was powered down, but this was the first time he'd ever encountered anything like that. He will only become stronger, faster, and smarter as the series progresses.

 

[Poni_Boy]

That has always been a problem I have had with the Supes mythos. Why not build a ship large enough to carry the family and why did the council not listen to their lead scientist.

That is why I always liked the brainiac angle of the council listening to brainiac their A.I. that would seem the most logical and smartest over their own countryman even if he was genetically engineered.

Also, if they would have given some sort of explanation as to why a baby size ship could only escape then I would have been satisfied.

All of this makes a lot more sense. LOVE the Braniac angle. That would have been a perfect predisposed plot point in the pipe for a sequel.

I just don't get the whole rocket your kid into space alone like a lawn dart thing. we love you, good luck, see ya!

 

[The Shape]

As for Zod not being able to get out of that headlock, I can buy that.

 

[ElDuderino]

That has always been a problem I have had with the Supes mythos. Why not build a ship large enough to carry the family and why did the council not listen to their lead scientist.

That is why I always liked the brainiac angle of the council listening to brainiac their A.I. that would seem the most logical and smartest over their own countryman even if he was genetically engineered.

Also, if they would have given some sort of explanation as to why a baby size ship could only escape then I would have been satisfied.

Jor-El wanted Kal-El raised without Kryptonian influence.

Does our government listen to its scientists? Why would theirs? Scientists aren't infallible. There could be competing theories. It's not like Jor-El was some sort of psychic. Even Lara seemed slightly surprised when she realizes he was right and Krypton was blowing up.

 

[Stoic]

Btw can I just say whoever said Cavill barely speaks was talking s**t, he's got plenty of dialogue and definitely a lot more than Routh did in SRs.

Agreed. His dialog was very present. Not sure where people were coming from on that one.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

12 more hrs 'til my 2nd viewing.

Although the 3D only richened the depth to certain things, I still think IMAX 3D is a way to go if you want to "be part of the movie".

 

[Marvin]

Two things I wish this movie would have "fixed" from the comics/Donner mythology: Jor-el only building a small ship for his son (never made any sense to me at all) and the Kryptonian counsel not listening to his warning about the planet being destroyed. I mean, he's THEIR guy for that kind of stuff. Never made sense

It's a fair point, but what would you have the Devil David Goyer do, build a bigger ship and save a whole neighborhood of Kryptonians? This place would be on suicide watch.

That being said I think there were points made. Such as jor EL putting the codex in his son and saving his planet in that way, and the fact that Jor wasn't a fan of his people's status quo. There's something to be said for the fresh start Jor believed in.

 

[ElDuderino]

Agreed. His dialog was very present. Not sure where people were coming from on that one.

People were also complaining that he doesn't save people. But he does that throught the film.

 

[The_Raganork]

It's funny what people will justify because they like a character....

 

[StarLord]

I can't believe how aggressive some people get when talking about a movie.

 

[Midnight Black]

Two things I wish this movie would have "fixed" from the comics/Donner mythology: Jor-el only building a small ship for his son (never made any sense to me at all) and the Kryptonian counsel not listening to his warning about the planet being destroyed. I mean, he's THEIR guy for that kind of stuff. Never made sense

All of this makes a lot more sense. LOVE the Braniac angle. That would have been a perfect predisposed plot point in the pipe for a sequel.

I just don't get the whole rocket your kid into space alone like a lawn dart thing. we love you, good luck, see ya!

Yeah, given how Jor and Lara were I honestly don't see a reason why they couldn't have gone with him. However, if they would've just said that they would meet up with him at Earth after they ensured that Zod's coup was thwarted then I could've understood why he traveled by himself.

Jor and Lara seemed as if they had no problem going against the Kryptonian way of thinking...I mean they did have a natural birth and all which I'm assuming was outlawed.

Heck it would have even worked if they said Kal's space crib was an escape pod that could fit the three, but that after Jor-El was killed Lara stayed back insure the launch and fight-off Zod until the council regained power.

I was still left wanting answers and that was the only thing the movie didn't really answer for me, then again I guess since it is a well known origin and accepted it shouldn't be a huge issue.

 

[Poni_Boy]

It's a fair point, but what would you have the Devil David Goyer do, build a bigger ship and save a whole neighborhood of Kryptonians? This place would be on suicide watch.

That being said I think there were points made. Such as jor EL putting the codex in his son and saving his planet in that way, and the fact that Jor wasn't a fan of his people's status quo. There's something to be said for the fresh start Jor believed in.

I refuse to discuss anything related to the McGuffin, er.. Codex

And, no, not a bigger ship. But maybe something along the lines of Jor-El building three ships one for each of them. Since the atmosphere around Krypton is so destroyed only small vessels can penetrate it. But due to the civil war/planet folding up he only finished one in time and they sent Kal alone because they had no choice. See, it's not the point of him being out there alone that bothers me, it's the INTENT to send him alone. In any incarnation, comics to film, they're sending him to his likely death. A little bit of expansion would have helped there. Show their intent is not to send him alone, but they do it out of desperation. Just a thought.