All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - Part 90

[Tanin]

Oh, I know why there are different versions. I'm just wondering why the situation was even created in the first place. Outside of two different directors doing their own versions, you'd think there wouldn't be that much of difference like how one would see a theatrical cut versus a TV edit or something like that. Seems like they've made too many different cuts to be shown in various countries, TV stations, etc. Just a weird situation.

I believe it was going over budget so they fired Donner and had Lester piece it together hastily.

 

[Tanin]

Its not in the Donner Cut either its a deleted scene on the DVD/Blu Ray. The only time its been in the film is for extended TV versions of the theatrical cut.

Ah my bad. Haven't seen the Donner Cut since Superman Returns came out on DVD.

 

[Nathan]

Not everyone who's seen the film has seen that version of it and of those who have, not all of them went with the conclusion that this Superman was the type of person who would kill someone with a smile on his face due to how the character was presented.

What, you mean the same guy that beats up a mere human while he's at full strength and gives women a roofie kiss after he shacked them? Or crushes Zod's hand and throws him against a wall, even though he poses the same threat as an infant? Yeah, Supes had such a moral high ground.

I kid of course.

 

[Tanin]

I never had a problem with Superman killing Zod in Superman II..... oddly enough I had problems with him beating up that trucker for no reason.

 

[sabetoonth]

Question: How did the black hole disappear once it swallowed the Black Zero? I know there was some dialogue with Supes saying he had to take out the world engine in the ocean or the singularity would continue or something? What is the pseudo-science reasoning for this? Or is it just Goyer writing?

It might have something to do with the device creating the singularity being swallowed by it?

 

[Smallville13]

In a nutshell, that's the problem with the film. It's all ideas and very little fleshed out. I have no problem with implied situations but the storytelling in Man of Steel wasn't implied or suggestive as much as ADHD.

Perhaps. And we can all get excited about the sequel fixing everything and being the universally lauded film we all deserve, but the reality is, with Snyder and Goyer both no doubt coming back, can we really expect any better from them?

We can argue the quality of Snyder's films forever, but the truth is every single one of his films have been met with polarizing reaction. There's those that love it, and those that just can't. And Goyer hasn't shown any signs of becoming a better writer.

I think we have to keep our expectations for the sequel down. There's those of us that didn't quite get the film we wanted. The trailers really made us believe it would be everything we wanted and more.

 

[Smallville13]

It might have something to do with the device creating the singularity being swallowed by it?

Yeah maybe. I'd be curious what the description in the novel for that scene is.

 

[BlueLantern]

Perhaps. And we can all get excited about the sequel fixing everything and being the universally lauded film we all deserve, but the reality is, with Snyder and Goyer both no doubt coming back, can we really expect any better from them?

We can argue the quality of Snyder's films forever, but the truth is every single one of his films have been met with polarizing reaction. There's those that love it, and those that just can't. And Goyer hasn't shown any signs of becoming a better writer.

I think we have to keep our expectations for the sequel down. There's those of us that didn't quite get the film we wanted. The trailers really made us believe it would be everything we wanted and more.

I'm not looking forward to the sequel or any DC stuff if this is the flavour it's going to be in the vein of.

 

[STARMAN]

I'm looking forward to the sequel. But I expect it to have flaws too.

 

[Smallville13]

I'm definitely looking forward to the sequel. Because I have hope (or ) that a greater film can be made that will make us all go 'Ok, MOS was necessary to lead to this'.

I eagerly await the Lex casting announcement. I can't wait for when the filming starts and we get set pics leaking in again. I can't wait for all the fun breaking down the trailers. But I think it's best to keep the expectation to a level.

 

[Lencho01]

Oh sorry now I feel stupid haha

Yeah its very weird. I don't know if there's been as many cuts to one film.

I believe it was going over budget so they fired Donner and had Lester piece it together hastily.

I think Superman's production problems is one of the most infamous.

What, you mean the same guy that beats up a mere human while he's at full strength and gives women a roofie kiss after he shacked them? Or crushes Zod's hand and throws him against a wall, even though he poses the same threat as an infant? Yeah, Supes had such a moral high ground.

I kid of course.

Well, he does stand for truth, justice, and the American way. t:

I was disappointed SR never touched upon the kiss or Lois being shocked she was pregnant unless she hooked up with Richard around the same time...

I would've done the same to Zod even though he deserved worse. Probably would've taken out his legs TDK Batman style.

 

[BH/HHH]

I'm looking forward to the sequel. But I expect it to have flaws too.

There's no such thing as flawless film its just whether the flaws are issue enough to take away your enjoyment of a film. That's why I gave MOS a ten because for me its flaws weren't enough to really bother me.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I'm definitely looking forward to the sequel. Because I have hope (or ) that a greater film can be made that will make us all go 'Ok, MOS was necessary to lead to this'.

I eagerly await the Lex casting announcement. I can't wait for when the filming starts and we get set pics leaking in again. I can't wait for all the fun breaking down the trailers. But I think it's best to keep the expectation to a level.

Man of Steel itself is the reason I won't have such high expectations again. Although I enjoy it as much as The Dark Knight Rises, I was more letdown by Man of Steel as it had seemes to be the best possible Superman film. Here's hoping the sequel and possible trilogy

 

[bluearth]

There's no such thing as flawless film its just whether the flaws are issue enough to take away your enjoyment of a film. That's why I gave MOS a ten because for me its flaws weren't enough to really bother me.

Exactly my thoughts

On another note, Christopher Reeve would have looked great in the suit

 

[BlueLantern]

There's no such thing as flawless film its just whether the flaws are issue enough to take away your enjoyment of a film. That's why I gave MOS a ten because for me its flaws weren't enough to really bother me.

But an argument could be made that a 10/10 film is a flawless film, else the concept of full marks would be a very broken one.

 

[tomoe]

I never had a problem with Superman killing Zod in Superman II..... oddly enough I had problems with him beating up that trucker for no reason.

I had problems with him being beat up into a wimpy shuddering pulp by that trucker. And then when he goes back to get revenge it's like, oh yeah now you have your full powers back you can beat him up fair and square-not. You sure showed him who's tougher. It really rubbed me the wrong way. Him killing Zod didn't bug me at all in Superman II either. I don't even think it occurred to me that he had killed them.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

If people want to blame the writers than I think that's valid. But at the sametime why shouldn't Superman be backed into that situation? As I've said before if this was all real it stands to reason that someone like Superman would get put into that situation at least once in his life. In my opinion it comes at the best point too now because of the fact he's had to kill the vow to never kill feels more powerful to me as it stems from something.

But this is where the modern day obsession with 'realism' let's a character like Superman down.

Of course having an absolute no kill rule is unrealistic. We can all recognise that sometimes it's neccesary.

But it's not real life. And a man with his powers and origins ISN'T real.

So why do we have to push that much realism onto him?

I'm all for a real world setting, and the story flowing in a realistic fashion (something I don't think they achieved IMO).

But you don't have to take away a characters principals because you think they are unbelievable.

 

[J.Howlett]

But this is where the modern day obsession with 'realism' let's a character like Superman down.

Of course having an absolute no kill rule is unrealistic. We can all recognise that sometimes it's neccesary.

But it's not real life. And a man with his powers and origins ISN'T real.

So why do we have to push that much realism onto him?

I'm all for a real world setting, and the story flowing in a realistic fashion (something I don't think they achieved IMO).

But you don't have to take away a characters principals because you think they are unbelievable.

He's earning certain stable principals in this film. That's kind of the point. The '78 film presents us with a character that just is, with severe logic gaps in the plot and in certain aspects of the character.

This film presents us with a character that just is, wrestles with that at times, but also is changing as well. Not completely perfect in execution but there's a genuine attempt to give us a true beginning tale of Superman.

That's allowed even if Superman is who he is.

 

[BlueLantern]

How can Donner's version have flaws in logic and plot whilst this film with its preachy flashbacks but little charting of a journey not? Furthermore, how does he change? He goes from being a child who's told what to do but occasionally has to use his powers to an adult being told what to do but has occasionally to use his powers.

Sure, the ending indicates he might be a more proactive Superman but it felt so rushed given what had gone on so far and what actually needed to be addressed at the time. That being the aftermath of the invasion and Clark to his knowledge being the only Kryptonian alive.

 

[C. Lee]

I never had a problem with Superman killing Zod in Superman II..... oddly enough I had problems with him beating up that trucker for no reason.

I didn't have a problem with either incident.....to me, it was bad guys/bullies getting a just reward for their actions.

I love the Chris Reeve Superman movies...but I acknowledge they had problems and that in them Superman wasn't as pure and angelic as some try to act like he was.

One poster was going on and on about how in MoS he killed and destroyed property (without compensating people for the damages)....all I have to say is, watch all other movies and Tv shows (including animated series) and watch him kill and destroy property without compensating people for the damage over and over again. It's there....but for some reason people act like the stuff in MoS is the very first time it happens. I have watched all appearances of Superman (40's serials, 50's live action series{and yes, George Reeves' Superman kills some people in it} the 70's TV special Superman the Musical, and so on.....he is not a perfect angel in any of these.

 

[BlueLantern]

I didn't have a problem with either incident.....to me, it was bad guys/bullies getting a just reward for their actions.

I love the Chris Reeve Superman movies...but I acknowledge they had problems and that in them Superman wasn't as pure and angelic as some try to act like he was.

One poster was going on and on about how in MoS he killed and destroyed property (without compensating people for the damages)....all I have to say is, watch all other movies and Tv shows (including animated series) and watch him kill and destroy property without compensating people for the damage over and over again. It's there....but for some reason people act like the stuff in MoS is the very first time it happens. I have watched all appearances of Superman (40's serials, 50's live action series{and yes, George Reeves' Superman kills some people in it} the 70's TV special Superman the Musical, and so on.....he is not a perfect angel in any of these.

The difference between a lot of those stories and this one is that they're written in order to showcase his character as a guardian angel. He doesn't just go and have a wrestling match whilst forgetting innocents, but tries his hardest to ensure their safety during the fight. The convenient excuse regarding this film is that it's a developing Superman so he's got no peripheral vision regarding the danger humans are in. It's about striking the balance. And this film didn't do it aside from the token Lois save.

 

[STARMAN]

When a movie has a lighter tone than the violence isn't taken as seriously.

 

[BlueLantern]

I think it's actually a little bit of the opposite at times too. When a movie has a lighter tone and **** hits the fan, it makes you sit up and notice. If a film is gloomy throughout and continues down that trajectory, it descends into monotony. I think Kevin Smith called this film a 2 and a half hour Metallica song. He was wrong. James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich are accomplished enough musicians to recognize the important of tempo shifts. Unfortunately, Zack Snyder doesn't. He only knows 210bpm.

 

[The Batman]

How can Donner's version have flaws in logic and plot whilst this film with its preachy flashbacks but little charting of a journey not?

Personally, I'm tired of people knocking aspects of previous Superman incarnations to justify MOS, but want the critics to judge MOS on its own merits and not compare it to previous versions. Not saying J Howlett is doing this, but others have before.

 

[J.Howlett]

How can Donner's version have flaws in logic and plot whilst this film with its preachy flashbacks but little charting of a journey not? Furthermore, how does he change? He goes from being a child who's told what to do but occasionally has to use his powers to an adult being told what to do but has occasionally to use his powers.

Sure, the ending indicates he might be a more proactive Superman but it felt so rushed given what had gone on so far and what actually needed to be addressed at the time. That being the aftermath of the invasion and Clark to his knowledge being the only Kryptonian alive.

Never said this film was perfect. Don't twist words.

The problem with Superman, in general, is that he doesn't really change at all. At least, in this film, we see this character through the preachy flashbacks struggle to stay on the path both destined by his fathers.