All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - Part 90

[BH/HHH]

If people want to blame the writers than I think that's valid. But at the sametime why shouldn't Superman be backed into that situation? As I've said before if this was all real it stands to reason that someone like Superman would get put into that situation at least once in his life. In my opinion it comes at the best point too now because of the fact he's had to kill the vow to never kill feels more powerful to me as it stems from something.

 

[STARMAN]

Superman killed Nuclear Man but no one cares.

 

[Bruce Malone]

You can say that about the whole film though.

 

[PacificBoy]

If people want to blame the writers than I think that's valid. But at the sametime why shouldn't Superman be backed into that situation? As I've said before if this was all real it stands to reason that someone like Superman would get put into that situation at least once in his life. In my opinion it comes at the best point too now because of the fact he's had to kill the vow to never kill feels more powerful to me as it stems from something.

Did he actually vow never to kill again? He was anguished about killing Zod, for sure, and it must have been traumatizing given the circumstances (his first taking of life, and taking the life of his possibly last fellow Kryptonian at that), but I don't recall Clark making such a vow. (If he did, I need to watch the movie again!)

 

[BH/HHH]

Did he actually vow never to kill again? He was anguished about killing Zod, for sure, and it must have been traumatizing given the circumstances (his first taking of life, and taking the life of his possibly last fellow Kryptonian at that), but I don't recall Clark making such a vow. (If he did, I need to watch the movie again!)

Actually no he didn't but I do think the scream says a lot (OK I'm clutching at straws here) but I believe it won't happen again. I'm expecting them to touch upon this in the sequel.

 

[PacificBoy]

Actually no he didn't but I do think the scream says a lot (OK I'm clutching at straws here) but I believe it won't happen again. I'm expecting them to touch upon this in the sequel.

Yeah I'm expecting the killing of Zod and its ramifications to be touched upon in the sequel too, but I wished the movie would have shown him making such a vow in the aftermath, so the sequel can have scenarios and events that makes Superman challenge that vow, i.e., in the face of other similarly powered villains.

Because without such a vow or resolve, Supes can easily go the other way and start justifying the taking of life for the greater good.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I wouldn't have minded a direct voice-over acknowledging he made a vow never to take a life again.

I think there is a bit of a misconception out there that's spread that this superman is a superman who will kill in situations and not just this specific one.

 

[Nathan]

Yeah I'm expecting the killing of Zod and its ramifications to be touched upon in the sequel too, but I wished the movie would have shown him making such a vow in the aftermath, so the sequel can have scenarios and events that makes Superman challenge that vow, i.e., in the face of other similarly powered villains.

Because without such a vow or resolve, Supes can easily go the other way and start justifying the taking of life for the greater good.

Eh, sometimes I think it's a good thing when they don't linger on these moments. Someone made some good points when they talked about Naughty Dogs latest game, The Last of Us. How the game sometimes just skips days, weeks, maybe even months. Especially after something really tragic happened, and you'd assume they'd talk about it. Nope, time skip. You know they are an emotional mess, you don't need to watch them talk it out, as you can easily assume that's what happened, especially after how they reacted. Cavill's scream after he killed Zod spoke volumes. You don't need to watch him another 5 or 10 minutes reflecting on his decision.

They way he reacted in that moment, and the way he'll react in the future, when put in a similar situation, is all you need. You don't need him to utter the words "I vow to never kill." Not everything needs to be spelled out or fed with a spoon to the audience.

 

[Deserana]

At the moment for me this seems like a film where a sequel can iron out a lot its issues. In the first half an hour of its sequel it can have Clark and his mother talking about what happened and Clark says that he can not take a life again. Could also show Clark helping out with the destruction of Metropolis. Have Lex or someone use the destruction against Superman and the people agree with the person.

Thats 2 issues I have sorted right there. I don't view film sequels for films like Batman, Spiderman or Iron Man as individual films unless the director or someone explicitly state it. I view them as one big overall story.

 

[BH/HHH]

Yeah I'm expecting the killing of Zod and its ramifications to be touched upon in the sequel too, but I wished the movie would have shown him making such a vow in the aftermath, so the sequel can have scenarios and events that makes Superman challenge that vow, i.e., in the face of other similarly powered villains.

Because without such a vow or resolve, Supes can easily go the other way and start justifying the taking of life for the greater good.

Yeah I thought in that scene with Martha at the grave he should have said something like I can't ever go there again or something like that.

 

[PacificBoy]

Eh, sometimes I think it's a good thing when they don't linger on these moments. Someone made some good points when they talked about Naughty Dogs latest game, The Last of Us. How the game sometimes just skips days, weeks, maybe even months. Especially after something really tragic happened, and you'd assume they'd talk about it. Nope, time skip. You know they are an emotional mess, you don't need to watch them talk it out, as you can easily assume that's what happened, especially after how they reacted. Cavill's scream after he killed Zod spoke volumes. You don't need to watch him another 5 or 10 minutes reflecting on his decision.

They way he reacted in that moment, and the way he'll react in the future, when put in a similar situation, is all you need. You don't need him to utter the words "I vow to never kill." Not everything needs to be spelled out or fed with a spoon to the audience.

Do agree with you, sometimes the more powerful moments are the things left unsaid, but it was just jarring when in the next scene after the pivotal act, there's was the stab at levity with the "he's kinda hot" line, took me out of the moment. Could have done without that as "I'm from Kansas" was levity enough. The emotional beats were a little off, but that's my nitpick.

Trailer #3 hit all the right emotional beats for me so I thought that the "My father believed if the world find out who I really was, they reject me. He was convinced the world wasn't ready. What do you think?" line might have worked better if used as a voiceover, just like in the trailer, as the movie reached its end.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Getting off work early and going to take my girlfriend and younger siblings to go watch MOS. And then wait for my parents to get home from work so we can go up to A Mountain to go watch the fireworks. God bless Superman and God bless 'Murica! t:

 

[BH/HHH]

Yeah that makes sense actually. Speaking on time spanning its quite funny cause I thought it was clear as day that the DP scene at the end is obviously a few weeks or even months down the line.

 

[sf2]

Yeah I'm expecting the killing of Zod and its ramifications to be touched upon in the sequel too, but I wished the movie would have shown him making such a vow in the aftermath, so the sequel can have scenarios and events that makes Superman challenge that vow, i.e., in the face of other similarly powered villains.

Because without such a vow or resolve, Supes can easily go the other way and start justifying the taking of life for the greater good.

can't believe still lingering about the killing. N u think of the worst situation to make him look bad.

 

[PacificBoy]

can't believe still lingering about the killing. N u think of the worst situation to make him look bad.

I believe this was the open discussion thread, unless I'm sorely mistaken. Clark could well walk that path, given how the plot panned out, that's what I'm merely saying.

 

[Lencho01]

View it that way? How else can yoy view it he falls into an abyss never to be seen again. Also a deleted scene means that its not part of the film.

They fell down an ice pit. Are we supposed to assume they fell one some soft cushions and survived the fall? If someone falls down a pit screaming and is never seen again, you can assume they are dead.

Not everyone who's seen the film has seen that version of it and of those who have, not all of them went with the conclusion that this Superman was the type of person who would kill someone with a smile on his face due to how the character was presented. I guess you could throw in Lois with that too. Plenty of things happen off screen that we can safely assume one way or another. Sometimes, it just depends on the outlook of who's watching.

Now, why some people have seen one version and not another? The world may never know.

 

[PacificBoy]

I don't view film sequels for films like Batman, Spiderman or Iron Man as individual films unless the director or someone explicitly state it. I view them as one big overall story.

That's how I viewed Nolan's Batman trilogy. TKDR wouldn't have made for much sense (and enjoyment) otherwise, that's how I'm gonna view the Man of Steel sequels to come.

 

[Lencho01]

The killing was written on purpose. The writer's weren't backed into a corner and were like well, Supes has no choice but to kill Zod from here.

They could have done a re-write that had the Superman-Zod fight whilst the gunship was flying towards the Black Zero with the phantom drive. Then when the black hole was created had Superman and Zod struggle against the pull and ultimately end with Superman forcing Zod into the singularity.

Question: How did the black hole disappear once it swallowed the Black Zero? I know there was some dialogue with Supes saying he had to take out the world engine in the ocean or the singularity would continue or something? What is the pseudo-science reasoning for this? Or is it just Goyer writing?

Isn't that what black hole's generally do in sci-fi stories? Just vanish whenever that characters' goal is achieved.

 

[titansupes]

Actually no he didn't but I do think the scream says a lot (OK I'm clutching at straws here) but I believe it won't happen again. I'm expecting them to touch upon this in the sequel.

Goyer/Snyder have already said that's the idea.

 

[BH/HHH]

Not everyone who's seen the film has seen that version of it and of those who have, not all of them went with the conclusion that this Superman was the type of person who would kill someone with a smile on his face due to how the character was presented. I guess you could throw in Lois with that too. Plenty of things happen off screen that we can safely assume one way or another. Sometimes, it just depends on the outlook of who's watching.

Now, why some people have seen one version and not another? The world may never know.

Ah well I have an answer to that, there's a TV version that was made I think for ABC and has several deleted shots put into the film so that it could fill a longer time slot on TV. That used to happen a lot not sure if it does now. But one of the shots was the arrested Kryptonians. Its funny cause I remember when I first saw what was called the Restored International Cut (which was a fan project by someone related to or working at Superman Cinema) and it featured many of the deleted scenes that had featured in several TV edits. I'd never seen the scene where he destroyed the fortress (although in the RIC version they hadn't added in his eye lasers) and I was like wow this is great. They were working on a green cut which they were going to add some effects in and take oyt some of the dumb things etc. Its a real shame that never came to light.

 

[Tanin]

Donner Superman II Zod arrested
Lester Superman II (Theatrical Cut) Zod killed

How hard is that to understand.... really?

 

[Lencho01]

Ah well I have an answer to that, there's a TV version that was made I think for ABC and has several deleted shots put into the film so that it could fill a longer time slot on TV. That used to happen a lot not sure if it does now. But one of the shots was the arrested Kryptonians. Its funny cause I remember when I first saw what was called the Restored International Cut (which was a fan project by someone related to or working at Superman Cinema) and it featured many of the deleted scenes that had featured in several TV edits. I'd never seen the scene where he destroyed the fortress (although in the RIC version they hadn't added in his eye lasers) and I was like wow this is great. They were working on a green cut which they were going to add some effects in and take oyt some of the dumb things etc. Its a real shame that never came to light.

Oh, I know why there are different versions. I'm just wondering why the situation was even created in the first place. Outside of two different directors doing their own versions, you'd think there wouldn't be that much of difference like how one would see a theatrical cut versus a TV edit or something like that. Seems like they've made too many different cuts to be shown in various countries, TV stations, etc. Just a weird situation.

 

[BlueLantern]

Goyer/Snyder have already said that's the idea.

In a nutshell, that's the problem with the film. It's all ideas and very little fleshed out. I have no problem with implied situations but the storytelling in Man of Steel wasn't implied or suggestive as much as ADHD.

 

[BH/HHH]

Oh, I know why there are different versions. I'm just wondering why the situation was even created in the first place. Outside of two different directors doing their own versions, you'd think there wouldn't be that much of difference like how one would see a theatrical cut versus a TV edit or something like that. Seems like they've made too many different cuts to be shown in various countries, TV stations, etc. Just a weird situation.

Oh sorry now I feel stupid haha

Yeah its very weird. I don't know if there's been as many cuts to one film.

 

[BH/HHH]

Donner Superman II Zod arrested
Lester Superman II (Theatrical Cut) Zod killed

How hard is that to understand.... really?

Its not in the Donner Cut either its a deleted scene on the DVD/Blu Ray. The only time its been in the film is for extended TV versions of the theatrical cut.