All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - Part 90

[X Knight]

But the prequel comic ALSO mentions a "Growth Codex" which as I understand it is just a small sampling of the main Codex back on the home world, so yes each scout ship would be able to create at least some Kryptonian beings to start the colonization of a given world.

We're not shown all this in MoS but it's in the prequel comic.

Would be kind of silly to send out thousands upon thousands of scout ships and put a Genesis Chamber on each scout ship ready to go and then... not include at least the templates for a few dozen Kryptonians at the bare minimum.

They may have no idea how far away a scout ship would travel, how long it would take to get their (even in spite of their civilization being at least 100,000-200,000 years old or more), so it's completely illogical to not include a small portion of the Codex along with each Genesis Chamber to literally be able to kick start the civilization at whatever colonial outpost they may end up creating.

The World Engine != a population, that only recreates the planetary environment suitable for Kryptonian life, so that means they gotta get things rolling somehow.

When I read the prequel comic again before seeing the movie the first time I caught that where Dev-Em specifically says "Once on the ground I'll just activate the Growth Codex and grow some new Kryptonians" and then I understood that even without the primary Codex, the full one stolen from Krypton and merged into Kal's cells, that they'd still be able to spread the Kryptonian civilization because of those small samplings on each scout ship.

yes, but it doesn't look like the Growth Codex on the scout ship was ever active. so the Genesis Chamber was empty/no babies.

although, that is a good point. whatever happened to the Growth Codex that was with the scout ship??

is it still floating out there somewhere with Kara or Dev-Em??

is it still locked somewhere in the ship?

was it destroyed during the initial crash or during the later damage in Metropolis??

is Kara still alive??

is she still hot??

tune in next time as we get the answers to all these questions and more on..........As the Krypton Turns.......

 

[Tempest]

I've only seen the film once so far. Anyone want to loan me monies to see it again? ;p

Anyway, I absolutely adored this film. There were relatively few parts of the film that I didn't care for, and the whole film was gorgeous, from the opening, down to the very final moment. It was just so, so good.

I'll delve into a few (if I wrote all of it down at once, it would be a huge post) of my top favorite things in the film.

1. The casting! Oh, my. This cast. Just. This cast. They could have stood around on screen and read out of a phone book, and I think I would still have been entertained. It was such a pretty cast! And it was well-rounded!

And right along with that...

2. The women! I don't even know where to start. Lois was so well done in this film. She was not an idiot, she wasn't a brat. I didn't secretly hope she was going to go splat in any of her Moments of Peril. She was a tough, curious, driven woman, who still had the heart to understand the difficult position Clark was in. And I like that she is able to look beyond "Superman", that she knows and cares for Clark as a person.

What else can I say? All the women were brilliantly done. Clark's mothers were both strong, capable women. There was no hand-wringing from them. They're spirited, competent women. Love it.

Faora? Amazing, of course. Terrifying, beautiful, and absolutely the perfect predator. She was fabulous in so many ways.

And even though the role was small, there was a part of me so giddy over the fact that they had a female captain in the army. A small thing, but so wonderful to see.

2. And the men! Hello, Henry Cavill. He played Superman so well. There was a gentleness in his Superman, a vulnerability that I really, really loved to see. He was approachable, easy to empathize with, and well, emotional. I loved watching Cavill on the screen, because he pulled out the best parts of Superman's character, and made them intense and sincere.

I've always found Superman to be a bit cloying and unnaturally played by other actors. An unpopular opinion, I know. But in Henry, I found what I wanted and needed in Superman.

And also, he's hot. Let's not forget that.

4. The new uniform. I suspect that many die hard fans hate it. I personally am relieved that it has a new look. While I'm sure Henry would look lovely in blue spandex and red hot shorts, I really love the sleek, armored appearance of the new uniform. And the cape. The glorious, glorious, glorious cape. I totally want one.

5. On a more serious note, the storyline was wonderful. The actions of the characters were believable, even if they didn't always make the wisest decisions. Clark's journey from lost soul into finally welcoming and exploring his powers, to becoming a superhero, was unbelievably well done.

So those are my favoritest of the favorite things in the movie.

I admit, there were a few things I didn't like.

1. The fight scenes. I love fires. I love explosions. I love watching pretty people beating each other up. And I love for the scenes to not last twenty minutes. They were well-done, very fun to watch, but I did think the fights dragged on a little too long.

2. The Codex. I admit it's been a long, long time since I've read any Superman comic books, so this whole thing was just confusing to me. I didn't quite get it, or why Jor-El decided to send his son to the new planet, and to send the Codex with him. I dunno, whatever, it was pretty on-screen so I don't care that much, but a bit more clarification would have been nice.

3. Small thing, but I wondered where the POTUS was during this hot mess. Maybe he/she were napping or something.

4. No, I think that was pretty much it. A little clarification, and shorter fight scenes.

So basically, I'm saving up my quarters so I can go see the film again before it leaves theaters. I really enjoyed t!

 

[X Knight]

It's not an explanation. Why do people keep forgetting this is an inexperienced Clark? People are reading way too much into single lines. All it is is a father reassuring his son. It's equivalent to saying, "You can do this, boy!"

Jor-El: "Don't even bother saving her. You can't do it. The world is doomed. Goodbye."

Superman: "Gee.......Thanks.........dad..........."

Jor-El: "Oh, and did I tell you that I really wanted a daughter and not a son?"

Superman: "....................yeah.....well you're not the guy who raised me, you're just some dead dude who fathered me........"

 

[robmx522]

also noticed all 4 pods were closed when kal was abourd the fos but then after he wiped the dust off one the camera panned around and one was open ...maybe the command key opened the pod and someone escaped?

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I've only seen the film once so far. Anyone want to loan me monies to see it again? ;p

Anyway, I absolutely adored this film. There were relatively few parts of the film that I didn't care for, and the whole film was gorgeous, from the opening, down to the very final moment. It was just so, so good.

I'll delve into a few (if I wrote all of it down at once, it would be a huge post) of my top favorite things in the film.

1. The casting! Oh, my. This cast. Just. This cast. They could have stood around on screen and read out of a phone book, and I think I would still have been entertained. It was such a pretty cast! And it was well-rounded!

And right along with that...

2. The women! I don't even know where to start. Lois was so well done in this film. She was not an idiot, she wasn't a brat. I didn't secretly hope she was going to go splat in any of her Moments of Peril. She was a tough, curious, driven woman, who still had the heart to understand the difficult position Clark was in. And I like that she is able to look beyond "Superman", that she knows and cares for Clark as a person.

What else can I say? All the women were brilliantly done. Clark's mothers were both strong, capable women. There was no hand-wringing from them. They're spirited, competent women. Love it.

Faora? Amazing, of course. Terrifying, beautiful, and absolutely the perfect predator. She was fabulous in so many ways.

And even though the role was small, there was a part of me so giddy over the fact that they had a female captain in the army. A small thing, but so wonderful to see.

2. And the men! Hello, Henry Cavill. He played Superman so well. There was a gentleness in his Superman, a vulnerability that I really, really loved to see. He was approachable, easy to empathize with, and well, emotional. I loved watching Cavill on the screen, because he pulled out the best parts of Superman's character, and made them intense and sincere.

I've always found Superman to be a bit cloying and unnaturally played by other actors. An unpopular opinion, I know. But in Henry, I found what I wanted and needed in Superman.

And also, he's hot. Let's not forget that.

4. The new uniform. I suspect that many die hard fans hate it. I personally am relieved that it has a new look. While I'm sure Henry would look lovely in blue spandex and red hot shorts, I really love the sleek, armored appearance of the new uniform. And the cape. The glorious, glorious, glorious cape. I totally want one.

5. On a more serious note, the storyline was wonderful. The actions of the characters were believable, even if they didn't always make the wisest decisions. Clark's journey from lost soul into finally welcoming and exploring his powers, to becoming a superhero, was unbelievably well done.

So those are my favoritest of the favorite things in the movie.

I admit, there were a few things I didn't like.

1. The fight scenes. I love fires. I love explosions. I love watching pretty people beating each other up. And I love for the scenes to not last twenty minutes. They were well-done, very fun to watch, but I did think the fights dragged on a little too long.

2. The Codex. I admit it's been a long, long time since I've read any Superman comic books, so this whole thing was just confusing to me. I didn't quite get it, or why Jor-El decided to send his son to the new planet, and to send the Codex with him. I dunno, whatever, it was pretty on-screen so I don't care that much, but a bit more clarification would have been nice.

3. Small thing, but I wondered where the POTUS was during this hot mess. Maybe he/she were napping or something.

4. No, I think that was pretty much it. A little clarification, and shorter fight scenes.

So basically, I'm saving up my quarters so I can go see the film again before it leaves theaters. I really enjoyed t!

Welcome to the forums and hope you can see it again.

 

[X Knight]

Hey, Tempest!! Welcome to the Hype!!

and glad you liked MOS, too!!!

 

[br0adband]

yes, but it doesn't look like the Growth Codex on the scout ship was ever active. so the Genesis Chamber was empty/no babies.

although, that is a good point. whatever happened to the Growth Codex that was with the scout ship??

is it still floating out there somewhere with Kara or Dev-Em??

is it still locked somewhere in the ship?

was it destroyed during the initial crash or during the later damage in Metropolis??

is Kara still alive??

is she still hot??

tune in next time as we get the answers to all these questions and more on..........As the Krypton Turns.......

I covered a lot of what might happen in another post:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=26249993&postcount=261

 

[Knightstalker]

I can't stop thinking about this movie haha. My girlfriend wants to see it again, this time in 3D, so I'll be having a 3rd viewing next week t:

 

[br0adband]

I admit, there were a few things I didn't like.

1. The fight scenes. I love fires. I love explosions. I love watching pretty people beating each other up. And I love for the scenes to not last twenty minutes. They were well-done, very fun to watch, but I did think the fights dragged on a little too long.

2. The Codex. I admit it's been a long, long time since I've read any Superman comic books, so this whole thing was just confusing to me. I didn't quite get it, or why Jor-El decided to send his son to the new planet, and to send the Codex with him. I dunno, whatever, it was pretty on-screen so I don't care that much, but a bit more clarification would have been nice.

3. Small thing, but I wondered where the POTUS was during this hot mess. Maybe he/she were napping or something.

4. No, I think that was pretty much it. A little clarification, and shorter fight scenes.

So basically, I'm saving up my quarters so I can go see the film again before it leaves theaters. I really enjoyed t!

1) It's Superman unleashed, literally - it's what a lot of people have been waiting for: let Superman be Superman (sorry, got that idea from an episode of The West Wing, and Leo/John, we miss you) and everything takes place on a much bigger scale which includes the damage and everything related.

2) Jor-El sent Kal to Earth for one primary reason: so he would survive since Krypton was doomed. The Codex was sent with him because it's basically all that's left of the Kryptonian race which - potentially - may live again in time (and by in time I mean a very long time, not a decade, not even 100 years, I mean much longer, most likely) because of the Codex surviving along with Kal - they are very intricately linked, in case you didn't notice.

3) POTUS... wasn't relevant in any of the other movies, can't see why he'd be relevant in this one. It's not like POTUS runs the U.S. anyway.

4) Valid points of view overall, but see answer 1 above.

And welcome to the Hype, also.

 

[X Knight]

I covered a lot of what might happen in another post:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=26249993&postcount=261

I like your ideas.

the good thing about MOS is that it opens the doors wide open for future movies with lots of material and possibilities.

as for Kara, another scenario I could see for her is that during the cleanup of Metropolis, Lex and his men come across a cryo pod in the scout ship wreckage, containing a frozen, yet seemingly alive and intact Kryptonian body.

Lex awakens Kara and "reprograms" her to be his right hand henchwoman..........Mercy Graves!!!

 

[FlawlessVictory]

4. The new uniform. I suspect that many die hard fans hate it. I personally am relieved that it has a new look. While I'm sure Henry would look lovely in blue spandex and red hot shorts, I really love the sleek, armored appearance of the new uniform. And the cape. The glorious, glorious, glorious cape. I totally want one.

Absolutely love that shot of Superman when he is hovering down and surrendering to the army. Goosebumps. Then General Swanwick says, "ok, you have our attention". t:

 

[br0adband]

I like your ideas.

the good thing about MOS is that it opens the doors wide open for future movies with lots of material and possibilities.

as for Kara, another scenario I could see for her is that during the cleanup of Metropolis, Lex and his men come across a cryo pod in the scout ship wreckage, containing a frozen, yet seemingly alive and intact Kryptonian body.

Lex awakens Kara and "reprograms" her to be his right hand henchwoman..........Mercy Graves!!!

I saw someone else make a similar comment a few days ago but the gist of it would have been something like "If Kara was still on the ship, Jor-El's consciousness would have said something to Kal, there's no way Snyder and company would let a problem that large sit there just to find some way to bring her into the story in the next movie or whenever."

The prequel comic shows her incapacitating Dev-Em with a Sunstone crystal which I'm going to assume has similar if not the exact same properties as red Kryptonite (if they bring it into the story at some point) - we don't see that she's killed him with it, just stabbed in the back of the hand and he apparently gets debilitated to some degree as she takes back control of the scout ship and crash-lands it on Earth. Then we see the mysterious figure depart into the snowy vastness and that's it.

So we're missing two Kryptonians in reality: Dev-Em and Kara. Dev-Em oddly enough is listed as one of Zod's crew in MoS so so so...

Kara, dear, where the hell are you?

 

[Tempest]

1) It's Superman unleashed, literally - it's what a lot of people have been waiting for: let Superman be Superman (sorry, got that idea from an episode of The West Wing, and Leo/John, we miss you) and everything takes place on a much bigger scale which includes the damage and everything related.

2) Jor-El sent Kal to Earth for one primary reason: so he would survive since Krypton was doomed. The Codex was sent with him because it's basically all that's left of the Kryptonian race which - potentially - may live again in time (and by in time I mean a very long time, not a decade, not even 100 years, I mean much longer, most likely) because of the Codex surviving along with Kal - they are very intricately linked, in case you didn't notice.

3) POTUS... wasn't relevant in any of the other movies, can't see why he'd be relevant in this one. It's not like POTUS runs the U.S. anyway.

4) Valid points of view overall, but see answer 1 above.

And welcome to the Hype, also.

Thanks for the welcome, everyone!

And in response ;-) :

1. I understand the destruction. I just didn't need for it to last for as long as it did (even though it was realistic, and technically, probably could have/should have gone on for longer).

And unlike some people, I have no problem with the idea that Superman couldn't save every single person. He's Superman, not God. He's still not going to be able to save every single person in peril. It just isn't possible, and I like that the film went there.

2. I guess what I didn't understand is why only the Codex and Clark ended up leaving Krypton, and why like, no one else tried to leave or whatever. Again, it was pretty on the screen, and it's sci-fi/fantasy stuff, so it doesn't actually need to make a lot of sense. It was just a minor issue I had.

3. I know the POTUS is not really relevant, but you know. Still. Not even a mention. I just thought it was funny.

So my complaints aren't really big issues. They were just minor things that jarred me, but not enough to destroy my epic and ridiculous love for this film.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

And unlike some people, I have no problem with the idea that Superman couldn't save every single person. He's Superman, not God. He's still not going to be able to save every single person in peril. It just isn't possible, and I like that the film went there.

Agreed. My issue though is there not being any acknowledgement of the destruction after it's over. It just jumps to the next scene with the drone. I thought there should have been a transition showing cleanup, people's reactions, rebuilding etc...something.

I know the POTUS is not really relevant, but you know. Still. Not even a mention. I just thought it was funny.

There definitely should have been at least a mention.

 

[br0adband]

Jor-El says it best in the movie when Kal asks him why he and others didn't leave Krypton before its destruction:

Jor-El: "We couldn't, Kal, no matter how much we wanted to, no matter how much we loved you. Your Mother, Lara, and I were a product of the failures of our world as much as Zod was, tied to its fate."

The way I interpret that is literally Jor-El saying "We know we pooched our world, and ourselves, and you're the chance for Krypton to live on, unblemished, untarnished by all the failures and mistakes" - in other words, if they just moved on to another planet like Earth, they'd end up doing the same stupid crap all over again and that would end up causing not only their race to die (potentially) but ours as well.

In some respects that flies in the face of providing Kal with the Codex since it would only be useful if he were able to locate a Genesis Chamber - well what do you know, there's one on the scout ship at least at that point during their discussion, ready to go. What remained would be for Jor-El's consciousness to teach Kal how to extract the Codex info from his cells to make use of it with the Genesis Chamber which obviously won't happen at this point.

But it might not be the end...

 

[br0adband]

Agreed. My issue though is there not being any acknowledgement of the destruction after it's over. It just jumps to the next scene with the drone. I thought there should have been a transition showing cleanup, people's reactions, rebuilding etc...something.

The story is told like a visualization of a comic book so they just change from one scene to the other, literally, and just like a comic book the reader/viewer is left to fill in some of the blanks. I get that this is a major issue with a lot of people but once they understand Snyder did that particular style of editing and sequencing on purpose it usually helps - not always, but more often than not in my experience.

There definitely should have been at least a mention.

POTUS got a nod at the end of Superman II, and Snyder didn't want to redo the Donner movies, period, so that's probably the biggest reason you'd get for no mention of POTUS in MoS.

 

[Tempest]

Jor-El says it best in the movie when Kal asks him why he and others didn't leave Krypton before its destruction:

Jor-El: "We couldn't, Kal, no matter how much we wanted to, no matter how much we loved you. Your Mother, Lara, and I were a product of the failures of our world as much as Zod was, tied to its fate."

The way I interpret that is literally Jor-El saying "We know we pooched our world, and ourselves, and you're the chance for Krypton to live on, unblemished, untarnished by all the failures and mistakes" - in other words, if they just moved on to another planet like Earth, they'd end up doing the same stupid crap all over again and that would end up causing not only their race to die (potentially) but ours as well.

In some respects that flies in the face of providing Kal with the Codex since it would only be useful if he were able to locate a Genesis Chamber - well what do you know, there's one on the scout ship at least at that point during their discussion, ready to go. What remained would be for Jor-El's consciousness to teach Kal how to extract the Codex info from his cells to make use of it with the Genesis Chamber which obviously won't happen at this point.

But it might not be the end...

Well, I get that part, although I do think perhaps I figured some of it out? They did say a lot of the outposts were abandoned or dead, right, because Krypton stopped its age of exploration and mucked up their planet instead.

So maybe there just weren't any ships to take anyone anywhere. Except for the convenient one for Kal-El.

I just find it hard to believe that the entire race of Kryptons, who seem to be a fairly arrogant race who enjoy life, would just sit on their thumbs and not try to escape. I figure there has to have been at least one other paranoid Krypton who made a Doomsday escape plan for their family.

And I realize that the whole destruction of Krypton is more of symbollic, word-of-warning, plot devicy situation. It's just one I've been puzzling over. They sent their criminals into space; why wouldn't they try to leave too?

Again, this isn't really something I'm howling about. I'm just trying to figure it out. I love me some movies that have plot holes bigger than a wormhole, and it's not a problem. It's just kind of fun to gnaw at the little issues.

 

[X Knight]

Tempest, as for why no one else on Krypton bothered to leave, it's because the society became insulated and closed and abandoned space travel along time ago.

so, really, only Jor-El was the one who built a rocket capable of space travel.

 

[br0adband]

They didn't send their criminals into space like some other planet or a prison on a moon or whatever: they sent them to the Phantom Zone which in this telling of the Superman tale is basically like being inside a black hole, I suppose. It's not pretty and it sure ain't just some glorified space trip either. They were set free almost as soon as they were sent there when the explosion/destruction of Krypton caused at least one big chunk of the planet to slam into the Phantom Zone's "portal" which was in orbit over Krypton. When that happened it basically cracked open the Phantom Zone so the Black Zero (the ship they were in) was set free (you even see it when Faora drops to her knees, there's a part of that platform floating in space in the lower right hand corner of the screen and it slams into a chunk of the planet - that platform was triangular in shape with three projectors which get destroyed) - that's why you see Zod and Faora as they're reacting to the destruction of their planet:

To them they'd basically just been sent to the Phantom Zone where it's assumed time doesn't pass at all, so they are on Krypton, told they'll be sentenced to 300 cycles in the Phantom Zone (not sure what that means in terms of time but I'll suppose it's 300 Kryptonian "years") and when they're expecting to be released from the Phantom Zone at some future time they'll never have aged and the planet should be there - but of course it's not, and Zod knew it wouldn't be because he and Jor-El had that agreement between them that Krypton was flat out doomed.

Even in spite of this, the experience of being set free from the Phantom Zone only to look upon your home world that - from your perspective only minutes or hours earlier - was still there and now it's blasted to pieces... it's pretty jarring even for a hard-ass like Faora.

"The convenient one for Kal-El" was basically a one seater from all evidence presented in the movie, a transport pod if nothing else, not very large at all. I get your point, but I suppose Jor-El's comments made more sense to me: he knew their society was done with, he'd accepted his fate but fought for providing his son a new beginning that no other Kryptonian would share.

 

[bluearth]

Did the family survive or not? It looks like Superman screams at the end because he sees their dead body

 

[br0adband]

Did the family survive or not? It looks like Superman screams at the end because he sees their dead body

Uhmmm... yep, the survived, unscathed but with a killer story to tell some reporter <hint, hint>

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I just got the novel; I don't know if it offers anything new than insight, which a novel would do anyway, but I just had to get it. Plus, other than being a good companion piece, it would be my only access to the film until its released on Blu-ray.

Omg there's a MOS novel? :runs to Barnes and Noble:

 

[InJustice]

I just find it hard to believe that the entire race of Kryptons, who seem to be a fairly arrogant race who enjoy life, would just sit on their thumbs and not try to escape. I figure there has to have been at least one other paranoid Krypton who made a Doomsday escape plan for their family.

And I realize that the whole destruction of Krypton is more of symbollic, word-of-warning, plot devicy situation. It's just one I've been puzzling over. They sent their criminals into space; why wouldn't they try to leave too?

Again, this isn't really something I'm howling about. I'm just trying to figure it out. I love me some movies that have plot holes bigger than a wormhole, and it's not a problem. It's just kind of fun to gnaw at the little issues.

That's because of pure skepticism on behalf of Krypton's Ruling Council (Zod is the only one who believed him). And is it really hard to believe? I mean everyone that was into "End is Nigh" BS did cry about how 2012 was going to be the end of mankind as we knew it, yet you didn't see everyone preparing to evacuate Earth or prepare to repent for their sins. We're the type that doesn't do jack **** until it's too late. That's because we as a society are generally very skeptical of anything that we consider far-fetched unless it's scientifically proven or widely accepted knowledge. Krypton is more or less, a spitting image of how humans act/rationalize.

It wasn't stated in the movie, but I'd hope Jor-El tried to pitch the Phantom Zone idea, where they'd remove criminals to be "free" in Krypton while being safe in the Phantom Zone for the time being. Actually I've just realized that he stated in the film to the Kryptonian Council that wanted to do what his ancestors did, which was to discover new places and harvest their planets. Unfortunately, as Zack Snyder stated...Krypton's Rulers don't give a **** about progress, which is an interesting idea that hasn't been fleshed out to its fullest potential (prequel comic did show how KRC was corrupt though).

PS - Speaking of which, I always keep seeing Krypton's downfall as an allegory of how we as humans act in our Earth. Kryptonians overused their natural resources to the point where they exhausted their planet's core. I see it as an allegory of how we humans overuse technology to the point that it's beginning to harm mother nature...could we be the real life version of Krypton if we continue to harm our planet?

 

[br0adband]

PS - Speaking of which, I always keep seeing Krypton's downfall as an allegory of how we as humans act in our Earth. Kryptonians overused their natural resources to the point where they exhausted their planet's core. I see it as an allegory of how we humans overuse technology to the point that it's beginning to harm mother nature...could we be the real life version of Krypton if we continue to harm our planet?

See, this guy gets it.

 

[Project862006]

anyone watch empire snyder video interview he said feudal japan was his influence for krypton and it's mythology