All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - Part 90

[Tanin]

In fairness to heroless there is a complaints thread.....

Mybe I should create a Mos positives thread

This is the open discussion... you know... for both.
In a thread where everyone agrees with everyone else on every point you get no real discussion and it becomes a daisy chain.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Like the SugarWiki from Tv tropes.

 

[BlueLantern]

Then perhaps you should realize telling others that a film is in fact flawed is going to engender a similar reaction?


No, how you feel about the editing is subjective. How it is edited is most certainly not subjective. Just like the difference between film and digital, or how one feels about a film's score.


Your discussion hasn't been constructive from day one. I meant your "flaws" with examples of how I felt you were wrong, and you spent the entire time talking down to me like I was some blind fool.

You lost the moral high ground opening weekend.

If expressing my opinion engenders hostility and intolerance then it's those people's problem. Not mine. How I feel about the film is most definitely subjective. That should be common sense, shouldn't it? I'd rather not end every sentence with 'this is my opinion'.

Finally, I can sit here and retread through posts which you ended with sarcastic smileys and comments insinuating my lack of comprehension regarding the film but I won't. After all, this is more about a moral high ground than a film. Anyway, now that's done. I'm going to continue discussing the film.

 

[jmc]

How is it denial? What flaws are there to admit, if you find none?

I understand arguing the merits of a film. That is one thing. Hell, I did it for quite a while with Prometheus, to the point that I probably went overboard more then once.

A genuine problem is "the cgi was of lower quality in this scene" or ''Zod's scar keeps changing sides'', etc. Those things are factual for the most part. Now whether someone likes the story, scenes, characters, and structure are completely different. That is personal and subjective.

Come on man, surely you've seen some fans go bat **** crazy when the character is being threatened? How many times have people in this forum already made up their mind they're going to love a certain film before they've even seen it?

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Fanboys defend anything they care about. However, attacking stuff people like makes them take it personally. That's their problem, i know.

If you say MOS has poor characterization of the members involved, that's your opinion. It is neither right or wrong. It's about personal taste, though the critics agree with you.

 

[PacificBoy]

Its very Bad DC is just keep getting Criticized by every means necessary I dont know where this will take the JL Universe
I hope they come up with good Strategy for future Films .

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, you might have to sift through the hyperbole from both supporters and detractors, but some gems of ideas can be found moving forward. After, synthesis comes from thesis meeting antithesis.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If expressing my opinion engenders hostility and intolerance then it's those people's problem. Not mine. How I feel about the film is most definitely subjective. That should be common sense, shouldn't it? I'd rather not end every sentence with 'this is my opinion'.

Please read this post back to yourself. It really comes off as hostile. You can be like that, not care about how others feel, that is your prerogative. But if you are going to be captain buzzkill, waving your flag of "truth" about this film, why would you expect any other reaction?

This isn't a situation where one side is "innocent" in the mudslinging game.

Finally, I can sit here and retread through posts which you ended with sarcastic smileys and comments insinuating my lack of comprehension regarding the film but I won't. After all, this is more about a moral high ground than a film. Anyway, now that's done. I'm going to continue discussing the film.

The smiles are here to be playful. If they were here to used as sarcastic weapons, the mods wouldn't allow them.

But if you want to actually discuss the film, lets do it. Where do you want to start?

 

[Visualiza]

Since when is a film a problem child? Is this film dangerous? Is it possibly going to stab another child at school or set fire to their grandparent's house? This is art.

Responding with hyperbole doesn't serve your point, nor does it negate mine. You know exactly what I meant.

Otherwise, this being art means what exactly? Art has been studied and debated since time immemorial, and there has always been a place for civil discussion on both its merits and demerits. Who are you to tell people that they shouldn't be here because they don't agree with you? If there's anything that those who are critical of the film has never done, it is attempt to silence those who loved the film by shooing them away. You spoke of arrogance? That's it in spades. Ironically, it is in fact you who's trying to tell someone how to think or act.

And yes, it is kinda of hilarious that the film has been out three weeks and those that don't enjoy it feel the need to stick around this board to just tell all us no-hopers why we are so wrong. What in the world are you and Blue Lantern getting out of this? I stopped responding to BL's post opening week. Thinking maybe, in a few, he'd be gone. After all, he didn't like the movie and I find it odd that you would spend so much time discussing a movie you don't like. Nope.

Let me ask you this, what do you think you would gain by shutting people out of a community discussion who don't feel the same way as you? Whereas you're accusing us of trying to tell you what to think, you're doing exactly that by way of censorship and exclusion. I see no difference, personally.

 

[BlueLantern]

Please read this post back to yourself. It really comes off as hostile. You can be like that, not care about how others feel, that is your prerogative. But if you are going to be captain buzzkill, waving your flag of "truth" about this film, why would you expect any other reaction?

So me saying I shouldn't have to end a post with 'this is my opinion' when it's most clearly my opinion is hostile? Fair enough but that sounds most like a request to include political correctness in every post made.

This isn't a situation where one side is "innocent" in the mudslinging game.

I don't see this as a mundslinging game personally. I have nothing personal against any posters though I'll freely admit sf2 is an annoyance of the highest degree.

The smiles are here to be playful. If they were here to used as sarcastic weapons, the mods wouldn't allow them.

Let's be honest here. Smileys are regularly used as sarcastic weapons.

But if you want to actually discuss the film, lets do it. Where do you want to start?

Cool. Tell me what you liked and disliked about the film and why. I'll then share my thoughts in response.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Come on man, surely you've seen some fans go bat **** crazy when the character is being threatened? How many times have people in this forum already made up their mind they're going to love a certain film before they've even seen it?

Oh, I agree that happens all the time. I make a point of that before every films release. I know how all these forums get with something they love from conception. Many here thought I wasn't going to like this film because of that. I believe in the attempt to be levelheaded going into a film. I have been called both a DC and Marvel fanboy because of it.

But because I know that, I also realize that such situations can't really be helped. They feel how they feel, and for whatever reason that maybe, that is for them and them alone. If they are so set in their ways, I probably can't change that.

 

[Herolee10]

Well i can speak from firsthand experience that I thought this film was going to be bad based on all of the negativity that I was getting from people, including my well trusted friends, and yet when I finally saw it, I still ended up enjoying it, so I don't think I can be chalked up to being one of the fans that had this preconceived notion that the film was going to be great before even seeing it.

And like someone else said, there is a thread made specifically for complaining about the film; I don't see why some feel the need to bring that here as well.

 

[jmc]

Oh, I agree that happens all the time. I make a point of that before every films release. I know how all these forums get with something they love from conception. Many here thought I wasn't going to like this film because of that. I believe in the attempt to be levelheaded going into a film. I have been called both a DC and Marvel fanboy because of it.

But because I know that, I also realize that such situations can't really be helped. They feel how they feel, and for whatever reason that maybe, that is for them and them alone. If they are so set in their ways, I probably can't change that.

I generally just call it as I see it. I've been called a DC fanboy despite the fact I'm just as hard on DC characters films as I am Marvel. Even my main character Batman doesn't get a pass from me, to the extent where I've probably had my Bat Fan licence revoked after my less than favourable views on Rises.

 

[PacificBoy]

And like someone else said, there is a thread made specifically for complaining about the film; I don't see why some feel the need to bring that here as well.

The same then can be said for the posts which talk up the movie appearing in the complaints thread.

I do see where you're coming from, but doesn't an open discussion involve complaint, a contrary voice? If it's respectfully conducted, it's all good, IMO.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Responding with hyperbole doesn't serve your point, nor does it negate mine. You know exactly what I meant.

Otherwise, this being art means what exactly? Art has been studied and debated since time immemorial, and there has always been a place for civil discussion on both its merits and demerits. Who are you to tell people that they shouldn't be here because they don't agree with you? If there's anything that those who are critical of the film has never done, it is attempt to silence those who loved the film by shooing them away. You spoke of arrogance? That's it in spades. Ironically, it is in fact you who's trying to tell someone how to think or act.

I know exactly what you are saying, and I am pointing out how extremely flawed I find that reasoning. If someone wants to play mommy bear for a film, is it really a big deal? It isn't a life or death situation. Which is what you made it when comparing it to a mother and their actual child.

Discussing the merits of art is completely fine. I encourage it, it is what I do.

Let me ask you this, what do you think you would gain by shutting people out of a community discussion who don't feel the same way as you? Whereas you're accusing us of trying to tell you what to think, you're doing exactly that by way of censorship and exclusion. I see no difference, personally.

I never said shut anyone out. When did I say that?

My question is very simple. If you did not like this film, why would you spend so much time on a forum built for its fans? I personally am not a fan of Transformers. Don't like the movies all that much. Thus I don't spend much time in their forums.

I am not saying anything you are doing is wrong, or in fact that those responding to you are doing anything wrong. It is only when the mods get involved that well... it becomes a problem. I am just curious why you feel the need to discuss this movie so much considering how you feel about it.

 

[Herolee10]

The same then can be said for the posts which talk up the movie appearing in the complaints thread.

I do see where you're coming from, but doesn't an open discussion involve complaint, a contrary voice? If it's respectfully conducted, it's all good, IMO.

True and I do agree with what you're saying; it's just more or less those who just post just for the sake of saying how bad the film is.

Heck, I've heard some say that they thought the film was bad because Superman wasn't portrayed as a hero in this film and yet if my memory serves me correct, he saved the entire planet from extinction.

 

[PacificBoy]

My question is very simple. If you did not like this film, why would you spend so much time on a forum built for its fans? I personally am not a fan of Transformers. Don't like the movies all that much. Thus I don't spend much time in their forums.

I am not saying anything you are doing is wrong, or in fact that those responding to you are doing anything wrong. It is only when the mods get involved that well... it becomes a problem. I am just curious why you feel the need to discuss this movie so much considering how you feel about it.

But critics or not, we are all fans of Superman, aren't we? If we can't discuss the merits of this filmic iteration in a thread named "All Things Superman: An Open Discussion", where can we go?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well i can speak from firsthand experience that I thought this film was going to be bad based on all of the negativity that I was getting from people, including my well trusted friends, and yet when I finally saw it, I still ended up enjoying it, so I don't think I can be chalked up to being one of the fans that had this preconceived notion that the film was going to be great before even seeing it.

And like someone else said, there is a thread made specifically for complaining about the film; I don't see why some feel the need to bring that here as well.

I still haven't forgiven you.

I generally just call it as I see it. I've been called a DC fanboy despite the fact I'm just as hard on DC characters films as I am Marvel. Even my main character Batman doesn't get a pass from me, to the extent where I've probably had my Bat Fan licence revoked after my less than favourable views on Rises.

When it comes to films, I just sort of like to judge each on its merits. But I have some internal bias, as everyone. How that translates to how I feel about a film, varies.

Personally, really like TDKR. But there is also a part of me that wishes it was two films and that nags at me at times while watching it. I like what is there. I think it is a very good film. But I also can see what it could have been, and that bothers me.

 

[PacificBoy]

True and I do agree with what you're saying; it's just more or less those who just post just for the sake of saying how bad the film is.

Heck, I've heard some say that they thought the film was bad because Superman wasn't portrayed as a hero in this film and yet if my memory serves me correct, he saved the entire planet from extinction.

Yeah, I really do get where you're coming from. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably feel equally frustrated with the seemingly incessant putdown of a movie I like. But, alas, I'm not.

 

[Visualiza]

*snip*

We don't see eye-to-eye on the matter. In the last 30 posts or so, all of us have managed to derail this thread so I'm up for simply ending this part of the conversation in the forum. If you'd like to continue discussing this, I'm open to doing so via PM.

All I'll end with is this - I think it's fair to say that we're all here because we're fans of the comic book and film mediums. It's perfectly fine for someone with a vested interest in a particular subject matter to discuss, as I said before, the merits and demerits of that subject matter, so long as they do so respectfully. Being that none of us are trolls, I'd say that, for the most part, we're all at least being respectful here, if not a bit impassioned. One need not love something unconditionally to discuss it intelligently and in a civil manner, that is all.

 

[BlueLantern]

We don't see eye-to-eye on the matter. In the last 30 posts or so, all of us have managed to derail this thread so I'm up for simply ending this part of the conversation in the forum. If you'd like to continue discussing this, I'm open to doing so via PM.

All I'll end with is this - I think it's fair to say that we're all here because we're fans of the comic book and film mediums. It's perfectly fine for someone with a vested interest in a particular subject matter to discuss, as I said before, the merits and demerits of that subject matter, so long as they do so respectfully. Being that none of us are trolls, I'd say that, for the most part, we're all at least being respectful here, if not a bit impassioned. One need not love something unconditionally to discuss it intelligently and in a civil manner, that is all.

Since I hate it when people use the word 'this' I'm just going to say I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[dark_b]

My friend who I saw it with yesterday said that Krypton ripped off Avatar. I hate Avatar for this every person I know (about 18/19) are your typical average movie-goers over than 1 person. So pretty much Avatar is their baseline for otherworldly things in films. So when we get our first shot of Krypton with the animal and winged ships and creatures my friend just said "That's straight from Avatar". We also had the trailer for Elysium come up and my other friend who I was with said "Looks like Avatar".

I was trying to explain after the film that Avatar in itself was not original with the concepts. Nope MoS "ripped it off".

if i understand right he said that it looks like avatar. looks.like you i disagree with him. but then you tell him that the story from avatar was not original? Avatar looked original.

 

[BlueLantern]

Pocahontas in Space is what Avatar was.

 

[Visualiza]

Pocahontas in Space is what Avatar was.

This.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So me saying I shouldn't have to end a post with 'this is my opinion' when it's most clearly my opinion is hostile? Fair enough but that sounds most like a request to include political correctness in every post made.

As pedantic as it seems, I I agree it is, I try and do it as often as possible. Perhaps it is the years of posting on forums.

I don't see this as a mundslinging game personally. I have nothing personal against any posters though I'll freely admit sf2 is an annoyance of the highest degree.

Fair enough.

Let's be honest here. Smileys are regularly used as sarcastic weapons.

Hell, the mods use them as such. But they are adorable for that reason. They are playful to sort of defuse the situation imo.

Cool. Tell me what you liked and disliked about the film and why. I'll then share my thoughts in response.

I pretty much liked everything about the film, outside of what I found to be some clunky dialogue. Most of it delivered by Jor-El and Zod. There were also a few moments that reminded me of TDKR, dialogue wise. Where something is delivered in a very "on the nose" manner, to avoid having to play out a more elaborate, "show don't tell", scene.

I also really, really, like how Clark is the one and only real focus. The film reminds me a bit of one of my favorite films, Joe Wright's P&P. Everything revolves around the main character, and while others have their problems, the emotions come from how the main character reacts or is effected by it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We don't see eye-to-eye on the matter. In the last 30 posts or so, all of us have managed to derail this thread so I'm up for simply ending this part of the conversation in the forum. If you'd like to continue discussing this, I'm open to doing so via PM.

All I'll end with is this - I think it's fair to say that we're all here because we're fans of the comic book and film mediums. It's perfectly fine for someone with a vested interest in a particular subject matter to discuss, as I said before, the merits and demerits of that subject matter, so long as they do so respectfully. Being that none of us are trolls, I'd say that, for the most part, we're all at least being respectful here, if not a bit impassioned. One need not love something unconditionally to discuss it intelligently and in a civil manner, that is all.

You are ignoring my question. Why?

And yes, there is such thing as passive aggressive trolling. You can say you are being civil, that doesn't mean you are. You don't have to necessarily be breaking the rules to do it. See Caroline Bingley for an example of this.