BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[Spider-Aziz]

I hope at least the majority of Metropolis is rebuilt by the time this movie starts. And with that, I hope the designs of the buildings are a little futuristic.

[blackout]They repaired the Daily Planet before the end, and Clark on the bicycle looked like his riding through a fixed part of the city[/blackout]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I would have preferred Katie to continue in TDK for consistencies' sake. I don't hate Maggie the way some folks do, and don't hate Katie's portrayal either. I never liked the character much to begin with, and regardless of how strong the actress is the character never had much going for her.

Listen to the moonwalking short haired Jesus people. On this he's not wrong.

Racheal annoyed me no end. I disliked (and yes, this is my take) the idea that a couple of slaps from her are what seem to motivate Bruce to becoming a force to change Gotham. That sequence with her is the only problem I have with BB.

I hope Lois get's her share of glory in a WF film. I think it would be cool if she plays a major role in taking out the threat by way of her journalism. That could even be what brings Clark and Bruce together. Lois uncovers something, Superman naturally wants to protect her. Batman learns of the info Lois may have and he wants in on making sure she stays alive to testify or something. The two clash over methods and temperament (but not over Lois' affection. Supes saved her life and is played by Henry C. Aint no lady putting that in jeopardy for, as Christian Bale said "a man that has issues") but come to an understanding and a mutual respect because Lois, through her investigative nature, see's how similar these two men are. Just a shot in the dark.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Racheal annoyed me no end. I disliked (and yes, this is my take) the idea that a couple of slaps from her are what seem to motivate Bruce to becoming a force to change Gotham. That sequence with her is the only problem I have with BB.

Well, as much as I dislike the character, I think that was probably one of her best scenes. It wasn't the slaps that had the effect, it was the "your father would be ashamed of you." That was important to the story, albeit thematically heavy-handed (and rather cold of Rachel to say), given that ultimately Begins is a story about the battling influences of two father figures - Thomas Wayne (Bruce's father) and Ra's Al Ghul (Batman's father). Its the Wayne legacy, "more than bricks and mortar, sir," that keeps Bruce from going over the edge and becoming simply a force of vengeance like Ra's. The problem is Rachel is sometimes more of a plot device, an idealist reminder of the Waynes and their legacy (and of Bruce's childhood) than she is a character.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Well, as much as I dislike the character, I think that was probably one of her best scenes. It wasn't the slaps that had the effect, it was the "your father would be ashamed of you." That was important to the story, albeit thematically heavy-handed (and rather cold of Rachel to say), given that ultimately Begins is a story about the battling influences of two father figures - Thomas Wayne (Bruce's father) and Ra's Al Ghul (Batman's father). Its the Wayne legacy, "more than bricks and mortar, sir," that keeps Bruce from going over the edge and becoming simply a force of vengeance like Ra's. The problem is Rachel is sometimes more of a plot device, an idealist reminder of the Waynes and their legacy (and of Bruce's childhood) than she is a character.

Forgive me for disagreeing, oh Thriller Messiah, but while you are totally spot on with your explanation here, it's exactly why I don't like the scene. I don't think Bruce Wayne should be presented like that. He shouldn't have needed someone else to open his eyes. Just me. At the time, and I mean actually in the theatre my first viewing, I thought it was a bold decision to change things up like that. As soon as I left the theatre though I was like "fudge all that! Bruce Wayne made an oath to himself as a boy to war on crime and corruption". If you liked it, more power to you. I did not. But that's what makes opinions so much fun. Everybody's take is different.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I agree that is a problem. Bruce shouldn't be presented like that (from a comics faithfulness standpoint). He also shouldn't be given his entire arsenal by Lucius Fox, given all his best ideas by Ra's Al Ghul, etc. From a Batman mythos standpoint, I agree with you completely. From the standpoint of the movie itself and its themes, it works quite beautifully and enjoyably.

My thought on it is - every version of the Batman mythos has a different take on the character, some I agree with more than others. For example, I don't like Joker killing Bruce's parents in Batman '89 from a mythos standpoint, but I love how it works thematically in the story. I don't like the changes made in TDKR, and I think the way they work in the story are badly written and executed (I'm talking John Blake, Bruce retiring, etc.). In the case of Begins, its not the way I would have personally portrayed Bruce's motivation to leave Gotham but in the story itself it works well and quite beautifully, so I'm willing to run with it. I love the Thomas Wayne / Ra's Al Ghul antithesis in particular and think its quite compelling.

So I agree with you, but also kinda disagree.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I agree that is a problem. Bruce shouldn't be presented like that (from a comics faithfulness standpoint). He also shouldn't be given his entire arsenal by Lucius Fox, given all his best ideas by Ra's Al Ghul, etc. From a Batman mythos standpoint, I agree with you completely. From the standpoint of the movie itself and its themes, it works quite beautifully and enjoyably.

My thought on it is - every version of the Batman mythos has a different take on the character, some I agree with more than others. For example, I don't like Joker killing Bruce's parents in Batman '89 from a mythos standpoint, but I love how it works thematically in the story. I don't like the changes made in TDKR, and I think the way they work in the story are badly written and executed (I'm talking John Blake, Bruce retiring, etc.). In the case of Begins, its not the way I would have personally portrayed Bruce's motivation to leave Gotham but in the story itself it works well and quite beautifully, so I'm willing to run with it. I love the Thomas Wayne / Ra's Al Ghul antithesis in particular and think its quite compelling.

So I agree with you, but also kinda disagree.

Damn you ,reverse strolling star of The Passion! Why must you be so reasonable and even handed!!t:

 

[MrMaooz]

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I like Rachel in Batman Begins
Hate moments when she talks angry at Bruce

 

[MrMaooz]

I like Rachel in Batman Begins
Hate moments when she talks angry at Bruce

OMG Bruce, I want you to be a coward, f**k Batman.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

OMG Bruce, I want you to be a coward, f**k Batman.

No matter how many times I watch both movies, her attitude changing from "Batman is the true you, Bruce Wayne is the mask" to the thing you said doesn't make sense, or how she dumped Bruce for Harvey

Why does the hero love interest become annoying in the first sequel?
Rachel Dawes, Pepper Potts, and Mary Jane Watson?
I hope Gwen remains likable in the sequels

 

[ThePhantasm]

Damn you ,reverse strolling star of The Passion! Why must you be so reasonable and even handed!!t:

 

[MrMaooz]

No matter how many times I watch both movies, her attitude changing from "Batman is the true you, Bruce Wayne is the mask" to the thing you said doesn't make sense, or how she dumped Bruce for Harvey

Why does the hero love interest become annoying in the first sequel?
Rachel Dawes, Pepper Potts, and Mary Jane Watson?
I hope Gwen and Lois remains likable in the sequels

Fixed.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Fixed.

Good catch
Thanks

 

[MrMaooz]

Is this true? It's from IMDB btw.

Diane Kruger, Rosamund Pike, Alice Eve and Lindsay Lohan were considered for the role of Faora.

 

[Project862006]

Diane Kruger, Rosamund Pike, Alice Eve

i know those 3 were rumored for a female role
http://www.slashfilm.com/alice-eve-diane-kruger-rosamund-pike-superman-lois-lane/

 

[MrMaooz]

Diane Kruger, Rosamund Pike, Alice Eve

i know those 3 were rumored for a female role
http://www.slashfilm.com/alice-eve-diane-kruger-rosamund-pike-superman-lois-lane/

Damn...IDK which of these 3 I'd want for Faora. If Alice Eve was in this then I wouldn't be able to see that special shot of her in Star Trek Into Darkness.

 

[DChero]

Random thought: Will this movie help push Batman to building out a Bat-family? I feel like a convincing story can be written that shows that he cannot do it all alone. This could also bleed into a JL theme.

 

[Mysteryman]

I remember having laughed my ass off from seeing Snyder's and Cavil's reaction to that question, let alone Snyder's response to it.

Here's the thing though, the reason why i'm still conflicted even after that statement is that:

1. I doubt that Snyder would have said anything negative about Superman at that point when he was trying to promote the film, especially in a Hall filled with superman fans for the most part.

2. It's the fact that he used a certain "infamous" quote from Batman in "The Dark Knight Returns" comic book that has people worried. And yes, we know that they're not adapting the story, but in the same time, Snyder said that the quote is going to be used to help tell that story.

3. Honestly, how many other ways are there to show a kickass Batman near Superman without falling under the misguided belief that Batman needs to be portrayed as being superior to Superman in combat due to his intelligence? I'm pretty sure they'll find some way for Batman to beat Superman in the film if they needed him to win.

Snyder was talking about usng the quote to help the story at that moment.
He did not ndicate the quote would be in the new film tself .

 

[Deserana]

Aren't those IMDB casting lists normally bo**ocks? It said on the The Dark Knight one that many were considered for the role of The Joker then about 5 lines later it said "Heath Ledger was Christopher Nolan's one and only choice for The Joker"

 

[Deserana]

Snyder was talking about usng the quote to help the story at that moment.
He did not ndicate the quote would be in the new film tself .

Yeah Snyder specifically said that the quote was not the thing they were adapting.

 

[Project862006]

he probably just used it because it is an iconic quote and easiest way to show batman is in mos2

 

[Lily Adler]

Is this true? It's from IMDB btw.

Lindsay Lohan was actually rumored to be playing Lana Lang. Of course it was utter bulls**t, but that's usually what happens.

 

[herolee10]

Lindsay Lohan was actually rumored to be playing Lana Lang. Of course it was utter bulls**t, but that's usually what happens.

Can you imagine a Superman film with Lindsey Lohan as Lana and Kristin Stewart as Lois?

 

[DChero]

Can you imagine a Superman film with Lindsey Lohan as Lana and Kristin Stewart as Lois?

I feel like in the opening credits it would read "A Brett Ratner Film."

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Can you imagine a Superman film with Lindsey Lohan as Lana and Kristin Stewart as Lois?

I'm outta the movie if that happens