BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[Andreth]

Has this quote from Snyder been posted?

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=13726

"It's too early for me to discuss the film. However, regardless of how I feel about Superman, ultimately I have to go along with the direction that Warner Bros. thinks is best"

Between the news of Snyder going to meet with Miller, and this quote, well, ...the future looks so promising, doesn't it?

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

At least Batman will finally be a shadowy, smart, strategic ninja that can work independently.

But the future does not look good for the man in blue.

 

[Herolee10]

Between the news of Snyder going to meet with Miller, and this quote, well, ...the future looks so promising, doesn't it?

At least Batman will finally be a shadowy, smart, strategic ninja that can work independently.

But the future does not look good for the man in blue.

 

[Deserana]

The more I think about it (I'm very neutral about these two characters... sorry ) the more I just can't see a believable way that Batman wins this outcome....

Unless they go for some ridiculous Kryptonite route or they go for some "oh this is a very experienced Batman against a completely unprepared/early Superman" story.

 

[BatLobster]

Batman is not an idiot. There's just no reason for him to consciously walk into a fight with Superman without kryptonite in the equation somewhere. Or some kind of equalizer.

Bruce is not some meathead who would just decide he can take on Superman "becuz he's teh goddam Batman". He knows what he's up against. He would take the necessary precautions.

 

[Herolee10]

The more I think about it (I'm very neutral about these two characters... sorry ) the more I just can't see a believable way that Batman wins this outcome....

Unless they go for some ridiculous Kryptonite route or they go for some "oh this is a very experienced Batman against a completely unprepared/early Superman" story.

Probably a mixture of both and I'm willing to believe that Batman is more experienced here since if it were in his early stages, then I don't think Superman would be on his radar yet, at least to the point where he'd actively do something about it since I would think that Gotham would be his priority.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Probably a mixture of both and I'm willing to believe that Batman is more experienced here since if it were in his early stages, then I don't think Superman would be on his radar yet, at least to the point where he'd actively do something about it since I would think that Gotham would be his priority.

I'm counting on an older Batman, at least a longer established one. This move distances itself from the Nolan trilogy while still allowing for a grittier version of a classic character (since Nolan's Batman is based off of Modern Age Bats, even though I think he turned out differently and has a far different timeline.).

I'm expecting this Batman to be more comics accurate, as well.

I'm not too worried about Batman. I'm worried about Superman and his role, as well as the role of W/F as a SEQUEL, far far more.

Though if it's "the new and not-so improved Frank Miller" influencing Zack, we do have SOME cause for concern on this part

 

[Herolee10]

lol; at this point, I have more reason to think that this film is going to bite us all in the ass and really ruin Superman's character. It's like counting down to his eventual doom.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Could it ruin Superman more than him as a absent father would?

 

[BatLobster]

If this movie is bad and/or bombs, nobody wins here. I don't care who gets more "badass" moments in the film, if they make a bad movie it will not bode well for the immediate cinematic futures of both Superman and Batman.

 

[Herolee10]

Could it ruin Superman more than him as a absent father would?

Probably. And honestly, I never really got the Absent Father bash since it was kind of apparent and established that he had no idea that Lois was pregnant when he left and if he had known, he wouldn't have gone.

But in this case, with Batman, if Superman is made to look like the lesser hero and if this film is meant to glorify Batman even more by trying to prove that he's this badass human being who's capable of taking down a god-like individual with nothing but his own wits, then yeah, this could give the notion to people that Superman is the lesser being, etc.

And can you imagine on how much more worse it would be if they went about it in the same way that Fox did with Wolverine and Cyclops, where Superman even loses Lois to batman as well?

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I know that I'll just not buy the DVD and look for the highlights at MovieClips.com or something :/

Then all replay the good moments and think of what might have been.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I'm counting on an older Batman, at least a longer established one.

Unless MOS2 takes place a decade after the first left off (which they've already said it won't) we're not gonna get that. According to Goyer Bruce becomes Batman as a response to Superman.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Probably. And honestly, I never really got the Absent Father bash since it was kind of apparent and established that he had no idea that Lois was pregnant when he left and if he had known, he wouldn't have gone.

But in this case, with Batman, if Superman is made to look like the lesser hero and if this film is meant to glorify Batman even more by trying to prove that he's this badass human being who's capable of taking down a god-like individual with nothing but his own wits, then yeah, this could give the notion to people that Superman is the lesser being, etc.

And can you imagine on how much more worse it would be if they went about it in the same way that Fox did with Wolverine and Cyclops, where Superman even loses Lois to batman as well?

Never forget

 

[Herolee10]

Never forget

haha; honestly, despite the fact that MOS showed nothing to indicate that this is the kind of scenario that could happen in their future, given the mandate of the studio, I wouldn't be surprised if they wrote Lois uncharacteristically enough for them to go down this route.

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping that if things keep getting worse in terms of the news released for this film, that this film bombs and that Warner Bros aren't allowed to release another superman film until they get their **** fully together.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

haha; honestly, despite the fact that MOS showed nothing to indicate that this is the kind of scenario that could happen in their future, given the mandate of the studio, I wouldn't be surprised if they wrote Lois uncharacteristically enough for them to go down this route.

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping that if things keep getting worse in terms of the news released for this film, that this film bombs and that Warner Bros aren't allowed to release another superman film until they get their **** fully together.

You spelled superhero wrong :P

But no, they'll just blame Superman and make as many Batman incarnations as they can. Which might lead to a few interesting Elseworlds-ish movies

 

[Doctor Jones]

Between the news of Snyder going to meet with Miller, and this quote, well, ...the future looks so promising, doesn't it?

Like herolee, you're really jumping to conclusions here WAY too early. We don't know anything. If anything, you're really filling your head with your own fears and ideas. It's okay to have them to be sure, but just keep in mind how premature things are.

And you're acting like Zack's quote is a bad thing. Every director who works for a studio attached to a major franchise usually can serve for the studio's best interest. Auteur or not, Nolan served WB's best interests when he did TDKR.

And this is also how Marvel Studios works and they are successful at it. Marvel's directors act as more facilitators but it's similar territory.

People on the internet like to think a director must be some sort of auteur and protect their own precious vision in order to make a good comic book film. Not the case most of the time. Like I said, even still, it's still not about creative vision first. They can talk about hiring someone with their vision all they want, it's still ALWAYS about money for the studio.

 

[Smallville13]

I do actually find that what I consider the best film/tv does have an auteur behind it. However Snyder has already shown divisive cracks in his vision of the character (killing, Metropolis getting absolutely ****ed).

O/T: Looking back on MOS, the entire introduction sequence of Clark starting from the boat, to the oil rig, flashback, and stealing the clothes, is pure perfection for me. Easily the best part of the film. The next flashback with the bus overstays it's welcome a bit with the repetitive, preachy exposition from Jonathan Kent. But everything on Earth before that is as good as it gets. I just wish we saw the continuation of that film. Things go awry on the scout ship.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Re: SR

The reason the SuperDeaddbeat Dad idea is dumb is because it's both not in the character of Superman, AND impossible. With all his senses and his sense of morality Superman would know Lois were with child the moment sperm fertalized egg. If it occured during some non powered contrivance, then again he would look to see if she were pregnant after his powers came back. There is no way he would allow himself to be in the dark about that.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I do actually find that what I consider the best film/tv does have an auteur behind it. However Snyder has already shown divisive cracks in his vision of the character (killing, Metropolis getting absolutely ****ed).

O/T: Looking back on MOS, the entire introduction sequence of Clark starting from the boat, to the oil rig, flashback, and stealing the clothes, is pure perfection for me. Easily the best part of the film. The next flashback with the bus overstays it's welcome a bit with the repetitive, preachy exposition from Jonathan Kent. But everything on Earth before that is as good as it gets. I just wish we saw the continuation of that film. Things go awry on the scout ship.

I think having Superman KILL addresses how he would handle that situation if it came to that. HOWEVER, Superman generally doesn't kill, and most of those instances are out of continuity and weigh heavily on his mind.

Metropolis getting smashed has happened before in cartoons. I'm sure there are instances where it happens in comics. It's kind of a part of big superheroes battling.

That being said, they should have shown him making an effort to save the people on the streets (or in buildings, if they ARE there).

I agree for the ship part. The film just doesn't feel the same after that.

 

[Smallville13]

I guess his view on the character and what should make up his journey being divisive to half the fanbase just says enough though.

Snyder's visuals are absolutely best-of-breed though.

 

[BH/HHH]

I was thinking last night about cinematically who Superman bd Batman have killed on screen and its actually in nearly every movie.

Superman the Movie: None
Superman II: he (seemingly) kills Zod, Lois kills Ursa and Non kills himself
Superman III: kills Evil Superman (debatable mind as it may be a dream sequence)
Superman IV: The Quest For Peace: kills Nuclear Man
Superman Returns: kills Lex's cronies on the Kryptonite island
Man of Steel: kills Zod

Batman: kills the Joker and sone of his cronies
Batman Returns: seemingly kills that circus man blowing the fire when he sets him on fire, kills the fat guy with the bomb and kills the Penguin, almost nearly kills Catwoman a few times
Batman Forever: kills Two-Face
Batman & Robin: really can't remember does he kill Bane?
Batman Begins: kills both Ra's Al Ghuls
The Dark Knight: kills Harvey Dent
The Dark Knight Rises: I don't think he kills anyone here, he just gets ***** whipped at every opportunity

Have I missed any?

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

Never forget

Clark has lost Lois to Bruce already.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

So Batman vs. Superman = Green Lantern. Sounds about right.

I enjoyed Green Lantern, the reception will be depressing

I was thinking last night about cinematically who Superman and Batman have killed on screen and its actually in nearly every movie.

Superman II: he (seemingly) kills Zod, Lois kills Ursa and Non kills himself

Dangerous fortress, how did Lex manage to walk in it unharmed?

Superman III: kills Evil Superman (debatable mind as it may be a dream sequence)

They merge together again after Clark chokes Superman

Batman Forever: kills Two-Face

He tosses a few coins, Two-Face makes his mistake

Batman & Robin: really can't remember does he kill Bane?

Robin and Barbra un-Venom Bane, and leave him there

 

[Micromind]

Re: SR

The reason the SuperDeaddbeat Dad idea is dumb is because it's both not in the character of Superman, AND impossible. With all his senses and his sense of morality Superman would know Lois were with child the moment sperm fertalized egg. If it occured during some non powered contrivance, then again he would look to see if she were pregnant after his powers came back. There is no way he would allow himself to be in the dark about that.

All this is just assumption, and Donner's Superman was never shown with great sense of morality.

If he had been that many things would not have happened. (do I really need to spell all that in this thread ?)