All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[harlequinade]

Cameron needs to learn how to talk to the press. he is not in a bar with guys.

He needs to stay underwater and never emerge again.

 

[mclay18]

Ok well I misremembered. It's been at least 15 years or more since I last saw the film. The last hour is indeed intense but only in a disaster movie way and not either sexual or excessive violence. It's just an intense and dire situation. The portrait scene could've been filmed so it didn't show her boobs. I'm pretty sure those were at least on display.

Yes, and a tad bit more. But nothing like Kate has shown in other movies. Looking back now, I'm surprised Titanic got a PG-13 with the breast shots.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yes, and a tad bit more. But nothing like Kate has shown in other movies. Looking back now, I'm surprised Titanic got a PG-13 with the breast shots.

I think Kate has her lady bits on display so often that I probably just remembered it from her other films and thought she did the same in Titanic. I think it could've done without the breast shots. It wasn't a film like 50 Shades of Grey, even though many women went to see it, but still more of a family film.

 

[valmont]

[YT]H8LwZbzECGs[/YT]

 

[Mask&Cape]

I need a little help with my memory.

Wonder Woman ends (I mean in the World War One segment) with Diana having a positive opinion of humankind. That they are good and worth saving.

But in Batman v Superman, doesn't Diana have a very low opinion of mankind? That they are just self destructive and not inherently good?

Does something happen between WWI and Dawn of Justice to change her opinion or am I mistaken about her character in BvS?

Also, has Diana been actively working as Wonder Woman since WWI but managed to do so relatively unnoticed or did she hang up the costume after Trevor's death? I can't remember what is said in those last few minutes.

I hoping any future films) will cover her life through the 20th century. Not in some kind of montage, but stories set in the 20's, 50's or 70's or a post-Justice League movies split between her current and past life.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I need a little help with my memory.

Wonder Woman ends (I mean in the World War One segment) with Diana having a positive opinion of humankind. That they are good and worth saving.

But in Batman v Superman, doesn't Diana have a very low opinion of mankind? That they are just self destructive and not inherently good?

Does something happen between WWI and Dawn of Justice to change her opinion or am I mistaken about her character in BvS?

World-War II, nuclear warfare, 9/11 among other man made catastrophic events happened happened. Diana saw that humans have a fragile state of mind and they are vulnerable to mistakes but she remained hopeful that humans will make the best decisions for themselves. She says that no Superhero can take away the freedom of choice and she stuck to it. She believed in mankind but they repeatedly failed her.

In 2016, folks are too quick to judge someone and make knee jerk reactions. It's quite evident by the hostile and belligerent attitude toward Superman. His actions were over analyzed and he was crucified even when he was trying to do the right thing. Diana knew humans are susceptible to mistakes but she was still optimistic but all these events in the past and the present made her more cynical. Superman's selfless sacrifice to save the world changes or at least softens her outlook on humans. We'll see more of that in Justice League.

 

[Micromind]

I need a little help with my memory.

Wonder Woman ends (I mean in the World War One segment) with Diana having a positive opinion of humankind. That they are good and worth saving.

But in Batman v Superman, doesn't Diana have a very low opinion of mankind? That they are just self destructive and not inherently good?

Does something happen between WWI and Dawn of Justice to change her opinion or am I mistaken about her character in BvS?

Also, has Diana been actively working as Wonder Woman since WWI but managed to do so relatively unnoticed or did she hang up the costume after Trevor's death? I can't remember what is said in those last few minutes.

I hoping any future films) will cover her life through the 20th century. Not in some kind of montage, but stories set in the 20's, 50's or 70's or a post-Justice League movies split between her current and past life.

In the movie, Diana realized that humans care capable of both good and bad things, so she holds a view that's grounded in reality, so she might have decided to continue as Diana instead of Wonder Woman and let humans sort out their problems themselves, unless some gods (or monsters like Doomsday) attack again.

We will know more in coming movies.

 

[Mask&Cape]

World-War II, nuclear warfare, 9/11 among other man made catastrophic events happened happened. Diana saw that humans have a fragile state of mind and they are vulnerable to mistakes but she remained hopeful that humans will make the best decisions for themselves. She says that no Superhero can take away the freedom of choice and she stuck to it. She believed in mankind but they repeatedly failed her.

In 2016, folks are too quick to judge someone and make knee jerk reactions. It's quite evident by the hostile and belligerent attitude toward Superman. His actions were over analyzed and he was crucified even when he was trying to do the right thing. Diana knew humans are susceptible to mistakes but she was still optimistic but all these events in the past and the present made her more cynical. Superman's selfless sacrifice to save the world changes or at least softens her outlook on humans. We'll see more of that in Justice League.

Does she say that to Batman in BvS? (the bold type)

 

[Mask&Cape]

In the movie, Diana realized that humans care capable of both good and bad things, so she holds a view that's grounded in reality, so she might have decided to continue as Diana instead of Wonder Woman and let humans sort out their problems themselves, unless some gods (or monsters like Doomsday) attack again.

We will know more in coming movies.

Do you mean that the movie doesn't specify whether she did or didn't carry on being Wonder Woman?

 

[Micromind]

Do you mean that the movie doesn't specify whether she did or didn't carry on being Wonder Woman?

You mean after the Ares was killed ? I think they left it ambiguous, she certainly seems to be in a mindset where she would continue to help others as Diana Prince, the identity that Steve Trevor created for her.

Though there's still a possibility that after World War 1 ended, she might have assumed the identity of Wonder Woman for a short time but not many people saw her. But, we will have to wait for the sequel to know if that is the case.

 

[Mask&Cape]

You mean after the Ares was killed ? I think they left it ambiguous, she certainly seems to be in a mindset where she would continue to help others as Diana Prince, the identity that Steve Trevor created for her.

Though there's still a possibility that after World War 1 ended, she might have assumed the identity of Wonder Woman for a short time but not many people saw her. But, we will have to wait for the sequel to know if that is the case.

That was what I remember thinking at the end of the movie. She seemed to have a very positive view of mankind of WWI so I thought she continued her superhero work, but managed to avoid being seen (for the most part) and those she helped kept silent out of gratitude.

I can see how the rest of the 20th might have sullied her view humanity but I hope the writers and directors make her activities as Wonder Woman short lived. There is great potential in sequels and flashbacks set in the time between WWI and BvS.

 

[metaphysician]

*cough* Or, there's the simple answer: Jenkins did not feel the need to be beholden to BvS's terrible plot decisions. Its not a contradiction, nor an indication of some unshown events between the movies, but a simple and flat out retcon.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think Jenkins will just ignore that statement in BvS. I don't think she's going to want to make WW sequels where Diana only operates in secret or just as Diana and never becomes WW. I also don't think she's going to want to have Gal portray a cynical and world weary WW. I don't think the audience wants that either.

WW now takes precedence over BvS since it has been more success and better received. If anything has to change to fit another narrative, it's BvS or any other DCEU film going forward, not WW changing to fit BvS.

 

[Mask&Cape]

*cough* Or, there's the simple answer: Jenkins did not feel the need to be beholden to BvS's terrible plot decisions. Its not a contradiction, nor an indication of some unshown events between the movies, but a simple and flat out retcon.

That is not a simple answer at all. The simple answer is that Diana's character goes through changes because they wanted to end the movie on an upbeat note but she will at some become cynical of mankind.

Your "answer" is convoluted by ignoring the facts. Just because you dislike a certain element does not mean that it didn't happen.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I think Jenkins will just ignore that statement in BvS. I don't think she's going to want to make WW sequels where Diana only operates in secret or just as Diana and never becomes WW. I also don't think she's going to want to have Gal portray a cynical and world weary WW. I don't think the audience wants that either.

WW now takes precedence over BvS since it has been more success and better received. If anything has to change to fit another narrative, it's BvS or any other DCEU film going forward, not WW changing to fit BvS.

I don't think I said Diana would operate in secret. I said she managed to avoid being seen - meaning the public at large is not aware of Wonder Woman like the are of Superman. That does not paint the writers into a corner at all.

Just because Diana is cynical in BvS doesn't mean it has to happen in the second or third film. Or that she has to be sombre or depressed a whole Wonder Woman film. They can show the seeds of it in a film or simply have her talk about why she walked away in Justice League film. No big silly retcon needed.

Besides, having Wonder Woman be eternally optimistic about humanity despite all the bad things that happen would make her one dimensional. Nothing wrong with a heroine losing faith for while and finding the will to fight again.

 

[Paradox1]

Is it really cynical to believe mankind has built a world that makes us impossible for us to stand together? Or is just the reality we live in? Humans aren't all good, we do horrible things to each other. I hope we can come together one day, and I believe WW hopes too.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Is it really cynical to believe mankind has built a world that makes us impossible for us to stand together? Or is just the reality we live in? Humans aren't all good, we do horrible things to each other. I hope we can come together one day, and I believe WW hopes too.

You are correct. It is being realistic. However, to lose hope (as Diana has by the events of BvS) is to become cynical.

Wonder Woman doesn't "hope for that day" - she had already believed it but then lost her faith. Post-BvS Diana will most likely learn to believe again.

 

[Hypestyle]

so is wonder woman the leader of justice league in this film? she is the oldest character by far.

 

[Mysteryman]

It appears that she co-founds the League with Batman.

 

[Mask&Cape]

so is wonder woman the leader of justice league in this film? she is the oldest character by far.

What has age to do with being a leader?

 

[terry78]

Wonder Woman has always been the oldest but still defers to Supes and Bats as partners. She'll take the helm and tell them what to do if she feels they're kinda meandering, but they usually vote on stuff.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Wonder Woman has always been the oldest but still defers to Supes and Bats as partners. She'll take the helm and tell them what to do if she feels they're kinda meandering, but they usually vote on stuff.

Yes, I don't think the Justice League has a leader. The animated TV shows and films often show Batman "in charge" of planning missions because he is the best strategist (due his detective skills) but I don't think he was ever referred to as the "leader". And. like you say, they vote on things like who is to be a new member., etc.

 

[The Guard]

I wish people would stop saying that Diana being cynical of mankind is just a retcon. It is the fleshing out of her conflict, which is introduced in BVS. A crisis of faith. People, she has a breakdown in the third act over her disillusionment with mankind and their warlike ways. The end of Wonder Woman is not about a lack of cynicism. It is about having some hope despite dire circumstances. That is not going to magically disappear. Rather, her realozation of the conflict and her reactions to it will come to define her as a hero.

Ares is trying to get her to lose hope. She holds onto it. "I believe in love" is a hopeful statment, but does not erase the inherent conflict within humanity.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Wonder Woman has always been the oldest but still defers to Supes and Bats as partners. She'll take the helm and tell them what to do if she feels they're kinda meandering, but they usually vote on stuff.

Wasn't Wonder Woman just their secretary at one point in time?

 

[terry78]

Yeah, before the 70s I think.