Along with these changes will it include making Thing look right?

[Kelly]

it doesn't matter whether i remember watching Citizen Kane or not, nor am i protecting anyone....difference of opinion Mr. S thats it.....this is becoming a joke of a discussion......you are still making the discussion about Citizen Kane and its not....you are not going to move past that....therefore the continuance of of this discussion is worthless....i happen to think his argument as well as yours was given very well......and i also think we are seeing true colors here through this discussion....and as for me....that is a good thing.....knowing where people stand, as far as i'm concerned, is a good thing....i see "toleration of different opinions" in our posts Mr. S....not "respect of different opinions"....to me there is a huge difference between toleration and respect...

"The movies we love and admire are to some extent a function of who we are when we see them." i agree w/ this quote... And to say to someone your opinion of the movie is wrong...to me is a level of disrespect that hits the person at a very personal level...i've read in your posts a semblance of allowing others opinions...not sure if i've seen much more than that....

 

[Agent 194]

I can appreciate Citizen Kane; how old Welles was when he did it, the technological achievements and innovations, all the hats he wore making it and the subject matter that he tackled at the time. Especially given that person was still alive and very powerful. I have to admit I have often found Orson Welles' roles to be a bit too self indulgant. I'm guessing much like the man himself was in real life.

However, given all that,. . .I enjoy Casablanca more. I notice something new every time I watch it. I think it's pretty much a perfect film.

Oh, . . .and make The Thing look right.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You firmly state your “opinions”, that you see as facts, too; and that could be called by people in ill will “condescension” also, fot it’s easy to deny things without argument, in ill will.

You are wrong in this statement...Willie is not stating his as fact, he is using this movie to show you simply that his view (opinion) of this movie is different from yours....he's not trying to PROVE any point except that the two of you view the movie differently....YOU are the one trying to prove your view of the movie as the correct view....which means you are not getting Willie's point at all.....

His point is not to prove one way or the other about "Citizen Kane" as a good or bad movie...his point was the two of you have different opinions of the movie as do many....but as always you HAVE TO prove yourself as the one who is right...as the opinion that is fact...when in reality you are simply very eloquently stating your opinion of a movie that happens to be different from Willie's very eloquently given opinion....i'm impressed by both....but both are opinions...that happen to be stated quite well.

I have a confession, but don't tell anybody.

I'm just playing with Mr. S. because it's too easy and fun to push his buttons and get him to launch into one of his lengthy, pretentious posts.

I show them to people at work and they get a kick out of them.

It's a character flaw, I know, but it's like when someone walks into work wearing a hideous shirt saying: "Don't make fun of my shirt" . . . I just can't resist.

Actually I like Citizen Kane and I've got it on DVD.

I can't absolutely promise, but I'll try not to do it again.

 

[halfapple]

God, do you people just enjoy living in denial so much?

Things can be done.

Those ^ are not normal human facial proportions and his face was plenty expressive.

/Agree!

 

[Kelly]

I have a confession, but don't tell anybody.

I'm just playing with Mr. S. because it's too easy and fun to push his buttons and get him to launch into one of his lengthy, pretentious posts.

I show them to people at work and they get a kick out of them.

It's a character flaw, I know, but it's like when someone walks into work wearing a hideous shirt saying: "Don't make fun of my shirt" . . . I just can't resist.

Actually I like Citizen Kane and I've got it on DVD.

I can't absolutely promise, but I'll try not to do it again.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Oh, I'm sorry. Have you never had a little fun with someone who took themself too seriously at one time or another?

I probably wouldn't have admitted it, but I felt bad when I saw you were getting into it too.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

it doesn't matter whether i remember watching Citizen Kane or not.

If you are to say something in a discussion about that movie, it does.

And, by the way, the one who transformed that in a discussion was Willie, not me.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

I have a confession, but don't tell anybody.

I'm just playing with Mr. S. because it's too easy and fun to push his buttons and get him to launch into one of his lengthy, pretentious posts.

I show them to people at work and they get a kick out of them.

It's a character flaw, I know, but it's like when someone walks into work wearing a hideous shirt saying: "Don't make fun of my shirt" . . . I just can't resist.

Actually I like Citizen Kane and I've got it on DVD.

I can't absolutely promise, but I'll try not to do it again.

That doesn't suprise me a little.

You have been one of the most dishonest debaters with which I've discussed something. That's the character you bring to other places, such as your work.

You combine both ignorance of what you are saying and this cowardice out of the topic discussed, as you are unable to keep with arguments all your silly comments. So, if you were playing, it was a pleasure to play with you, because it is so easy to show your flaws.

But you know that better than I do.

Oh, you got Citizen Kane on DVD? Why, if you can't watch it once and for all?

Why do I ask, it's so obvious: it would demand a great effort of yours to understand it.

It may look well in your shelf.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That doesn't suprise me a little.

You have been one of the most dishonest debaters with which I've discussed something. That's the character you bring to other places, such as your work.

You combine both ignorance of what you are saying and this cowardice out of the topic discussed, as you are unable to keep with arguments all your silly comments.

But you know that better than I do.

Oh, you got Citizen Kane on DVD? Why, if you can't watch it once and for all?

Why do I ask, it's so obvious: it would demand a great effort of yours to understand it.

It may look well in your shelf.

Pssssst, my name's not really Willie Lumpkin either.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

Pssssst, my name's not really Willie Lumpkin either.

I know.

I can think of four or five names that would describe you better than that.

 

[Kelly]

If you are to say something in a discussion about that movie, it does.

And, by the way, the one who transformed that in a discussion was Willie, not me.

MR. S....helllloooooo the movie was used as an example...the discussion wa about opinions and how they differ.....he simply used the movie as his example how some people can see a movie one way and some see it differently.....sooooo no it did not matter if I remembered the movie or not....ANY movie could have been used for that example....including THE FANTASTIC FOUR.....some enjoyed it, some didn't......thats cool.....

I loved the movie Crash, my sister hated it....we have a difference of opinion...am I going to say hers is wrong because it won best movie...no because her opinion is just that her own....

One of my favorite movies of all times is "Imitation of Life" my mom absolutely could not watch that movie, I loved it and watch both versions every time they come on classic movies....difference of opinions....makes the world go around....

I use examples in my classroom all the time, and change my view of them to fit the discussion....the example was to simply show people have a difference of opinion.....not how good or bad the movie "Citizen Kane" was or wasn't.....

Same thing with Thing....people have different opinions of what they want him to look like. Who's right? those that want him to look like Kriby's Thing....or those that might not have ever picked up a comic, and liked how he looked in the movie....or those that have been reading the comic for 40+ years and want only a few changes....who's right? who's wrong?

As for me...I would like to see a more pronounced brow, but they don't have to be jutting out like a major cliff on the forehead....I loved that we saw Michael's performance...and want that to continue...I think the changes that have been stated can be done.....but was I totally falling in the floor, pounding Kirby's grave over what he looked like in the movie. No.

 

[Kelly]

Oh, I'm sorry. Have you never had a little fun with someone who took themself too seriously at one time or another?

I probably wouldn't have admitted it, but I felt bad when I saw you were getting into it too.

I take people's difference of opinion very seriously....I saw it slammed continuously last year. I saw people demeaned because of their desires for this or that in the movie.....and very little was said.....I was happy to see someone who I felt was a leader on this forum stand up for those differences....there was nothing playful about it at all.....I can play with the best of them....but when we had people leaving this forum because they were slammed for simply enjoying what they were seeing leading up to the movie...I saw nothing enjoyable or playful about that....and usually they were being demeaned by people who thought themselves more knowledgeable about film or the comics.....it was nice to see someone who has knowledge of both able to see that a difference of opinion is simply that....

Sorry, didn't know it was playful discussion....

I am hoping those that left last year will return for this go around...I enjoyed the differing opinions...

 

[Mr Sensitive]

MR. S....helllloooooo the movie was used as an example...the discussion wa about opinions and how they differ.....he simply used the movie as his example how some people can see a movie one way and some see it differently.....sooooo no it did not matter if I remembered the movie or not....ANY movie could have been used for that example....including THE FANTASTIC FOUR.....some enjoyed it, some didn't......thats cool.....

I loved the movie Crash, my sister hated it....we have a difference of opinion...am I going to say hers is wrong because it won best movie...no because her opinion is just that her own....

One of my favorite movies of all times is "Imitation of Life" my mom absolutely could not watch that movie, I loved it and watch both versions every time they come on classic movies....difference of opinions....makes the world go around....

I use examples in my classroom all the time, and change my view of them to fit the discussion....the example was to simply show people have a difference of opinion.....not how good or bad the movie "Citizen Kane" was or wasn't.....

Same thing with Thing....people have different opinions of what they want him to look like. Who's right? those that want him to look like Kriby's Thing....or those that might not have ever picked up a comic, and liked how he looked in the movie....or those that have been reading the comic for 40+ years and want only a few changes....who's right? who's wrong?

As for me...I would like to see a more pronounced brow, but they don't have to be jutting out like a major cliff on the forehead....I loved that we saw Michael's performance...and want that to continue...I think the changes that have been stated can be done.....but was I totally falling in the floor, pounding Kirby's grave over what he looked like in the movie. No.

Citizen Kane was used as an example of personal nonsense.

Everybody can go watch a movie and start groaning like that. If it is presented as an opinion, it's fine. It was not, so I discussed that.

He is allowed to say whatever crap he wants about a movie, but should expect somebody wouldn't agree with him.

As to Thing: it wasn't rocky enough, and missed the brow. Common moviegoers will take anything, and readers of the comicbook want to see it done properly.

It seems very simple to solve this problem.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

I take people's difference of opinion very seriously....I saw it slammed continuously last year. I saw people demeaned because of their desires for this or that in the movie.....and very little was said.....I was happy to see someone who I felt was a leader on this forum stand up for those differences....there was nothing playful about it at all.....I can play with the best of them....but when we had people leaving this forum because they were slammed for simply enjoying what they were seeing leading up to the movie...I saw nothing enjoyable or playful about that....and usually they were being demeaned by people who thought themselves more knowledgeable about film or the comics.....it was nice to see someone who has knowledge of both able to see that a difference of opinion is simply that....

Sorry, didn't know it was playful discussion....

I am hoping those that left last year will return for this go around...I enjoyed the differing opinions...

Reading Machiavelli lately?

 

[Kelly]

Citizen Kane was used as an example of personal nonsense.

Everybody can go watch a movie and start groaning like that. If it is presented as an opinion, it's fine. It was not, so I discussed that.

He is allowed to say whatever crap he wants about a movie, but should expect somebody wouldn't agree with him.

As to Thing: it wasn't rocky enough, and missed the brow. Common moviegoers will take anything, and readers of the comicbook want to see it done properly.

It seems very simple to solve this problem.

Thats just it Mr. S he does expect there to be disagreement of opinion....that was his point....

But when someone comes on here and says, I thought that Thing looked good in the movie....they should be able to have that opinion without being "put down" because they are not a reader of the comic. Some have seen the pics from the Kirby era and still prefer the movie version, and they should not be made to feel stupid because they have that opinion....people on this forum such as Willie, Cappy and others have allowed those discussions, while others called those people sheep, idiots, morons, non-fans, etc....the few I mentioned above allowed those differing opinions without making those of us who are not as knowledgeable of the comics feel stupid....I've read some of the history of the F4, and now reading all versions pretty much on a regular basis, I'll catch up some this summer....the point is.....

Anyone, and everyone should be able to come to this forum, speak their opinion and not be told that their opinion means less than others....whether you are a fan of the comics for 40+ years, fan of the actors, fan of the comic for a year, fan of the UFF, regular version, MK, Adventures, etc.....your opinion means something....it is valid....if someone enjoyed the movie, and someone didn't....thats ok....they should be able to give their opinion without a reply of bloviation to make them feel their opinion is less than others.....my hope is that this forum will be more open to that this time around....I was a "common moviegoer" and I enjoyed what I saw in the movie (even with flaws here and ther), but knew that there was much more to see, and was edited (my biggest problem) out for who knows what reason. I'll be damned if I'm going to say that someone else's opinion is less valid because they loved the movie...(AND JUST BECAUSE THOSE PARTICULAR WORDS (not valid) ARE NOT USED.....THERE ARE WAYS OF TELLING SOMEONE YOU THINK THEIR OPINION IS LESS VALID, WITHOUT USING THAT TERM, ITS DONE DAILY AROUND HERE AND ALLOWED). If some are happy with the way Thing looked, more power to them....I wasn't totally happy, and hope changes are made.

There is a way of giving an opinion, showing your opinion is different, without making the other person feel stupid, less valued opinion, etc.....IT CAN BE DONE......some just need to learn how to do that....will that happen around here? my hopes of that are dwindling on a daily basis.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I take people's difference of opinion very seriously....I saw it slammed continuously last year. I saw people demeaned because of their desires for this or that in the movie.....and very little was said.....I was happy to see someone who I felt was a leader on this forum stand up for those differences....there was nothing playful about it at all.....I can play with the best of them....but when we had people leaving this forum because they were slammed for simply enjoying what they were seeing leading up to the movie...I saw nothing enjoyable or playful about that....and usually they were being demeaned by people who thought themselves more knowledgeable about film or the comics.....it was nice to see someone who has knowledge of both able to see that a difference of opinion is simply that....

Sorry, didn't know it was playful discussion....

I am hoping those that left last year will return for this go around...I enjoyed the differing opinions...

I understand what you're saying and I apologize again (I certainly have never considered myself any kind of "leader", but I guess in these slow times, there aren't very many of the originals hanging around).

I'd never consider leaving just because someone posted something I didn't like, and I'd hope most other people could find a way to put things in perspective enough (this is a web-site devoted to discussing a movie based on a comic book for crying out loud - we're not trying to save the world her, just have a little fun) to let things roll off their shoulders.

I was pushing Mr. S's buttons partly because it made me laugh, but also partly because people like him, who respond to people who disagree with them by throwing out insults, are a big part of the problem. I was sort of hoping that if he was insulting me it would keep him too busy to insult other people who might not be able to deal with it as easily.

Maybe it will still work. I seem to have really got his panties in a bunch this time, so maybe he'll be too busy with me for a while to bother other people.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

I understand what you're saying and I apologize again (I certainly have never considered myself any kind of "leader", but I guess in these slow times, there aren't very many of the originals hanging around).

I'd never consider leaving just because someone posted something I didn't like, and I'd hope most other people could find a way to put things in perspective enough (this is a web-site devoted to discussing a movie based on a comic book for crying out loud - we're not trying to save the world her, just have a little fun) to let things roll off their shoulders.

I was pushing Mr. S's buttons partly because it made me laugh, but also partly because people like him, who respond to people who disagree with them by throwing out insults, are a big part of the problem. I was sort of hoping that if he was insulting me it would keep him too busy to insult other people who might not be able to deal with it as easily.

Maybe it will still work. I seem to have really got his panties in a bunch this time, so maybe he'll be too busy with me for a while to bother other people.

So you were the "leader". That's a killing one. The first leader in History without any head.

Only a correction in your so thoughtful statement.

I never insult. With a bit of liberty, we could even say that your posts on Citizen Kane were an insult in themselves.

And you will have to be a much better debater and insulter to make me busy with your inane blabber.

 

[Kelly]

I understand what you're saying and I apologize again (I certainly have never considered myself any kind of "leader", but I guess in these slow times, there aren't very many of the originals hanging around).

I'd never consider leaving just because someone posted something I didn't like, and I'd hope most other people could find a way to put things in perspective enough (this is a web-site devoted to discussing a movie based on a comic book for crying out loud - we're not trying to save the world her, just have a little fun) to let things roll off their shoulders.

I was pushing Mr. S's buttons partly because it made me laugh, but also partly because people like him, who respond to people who disagree with them by throwing out insults, are a big part of the problem. I was sort of hoping that if he was insulting me it would keep him too busy to insult other people who might not be able to deal with it as easily.

Maybe it will still work. I seem to have really got his panties in a bunch this time, so maybe he'll be too busy with me for a while to bother other people.

Had nothing to do with not liking the other person's opinions, it had everything to do with being called names, and being made to feel that their opinion had no valid reason for being on this site. After awhile that gets extremely irritating...and a few finally got tired of it....hopefully there will be more of an OPEN discussion of opinions...rather than a discussion between people who think they know more than others...No one knows more about these comics around here than you, frankie, cappy, iron maiden and LS....and ya'll were the 5 that allowed that open discussion. I remember I made a mistake in describing one of the characters...can't remember exactly what it was....but Iron Maiden let me know my mistake, and corrected it with patience, intelligence, and has had some great discussions w/ me even though my knowledge of these comics falls well below hers...its fun discussing like that...its not fun discussing with someone that it seems their sole purpose is to show you that they know more than you do...and when you call them on it, the name-calling begins.....if you have the knowledge by all means use it here....thats how I've learned as much as I have about this comic is through you guys giving your knowledge away....but you did it without being condescending....which is an art that some need to learn around here....

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

. . .its not fun discussing with someone that it seems their sole purpose it to show you that they know more than you do...

I've always found that people who are really knowledgable don't feel like they need to convince others that they are.

It's the ones who are insecure who you have to watch out for.

 

[Kelly]

So you were the "leader". That's a killing one. The first leader in History without any head.

Only a correction in your so thoughtful statement.

I never insult. With a bit of liberty, we could even say that your posts on Citizen Kane were an insult in themselves.

And you will have to be a much better debater and insulter to make me busy with your inane blabber.

He was and is, a leader, he has been around this forum for a long time, and has taught me alot about this comic.....and he has done it with humor, kindness, and patience.....he did not give the title to himself...those of us that have been here for the last couple of years did that....and he deserves it....but again, nice to see some true colors coming out....good to know, sometimes its hard to read people without faces, hard for me anyway....

 

[Kelly]

I've always found that people who are really knowledgable don't feel like they need to convince others that they are.

It's the ones who are insecure who you have to watch out for.

Totally agree, in fact I believe theres a quote somewhere to that effect...


Also, Mr. S if I've totally misread your posts, I humbly apologize, I am simply stating what I perceive...

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

/Agree!

I'm glad. It's weird how nay-sayers just ignore that. It's like they just can't accept the possibility that the Thing could have looked more like the real Thing even with make-up, so they go "NANNANAANAANANNNANANANAN-I can't HEAR you-blahblananananblablablaNANANANA".

 

[Kelly]

I'm glad. It's weird how nay-sayers just ignore that. It's like they just can't accept the possibility that the Thing could have looked more like the real Thing even with make-up, so they go "NANNANAANAANANNNANANANAN-I can't HEAR you-blahblananananblablablaNANANANA".

well one did that.....dang, and you did that so well.....thats exactly what his posts looked like...

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

lol

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm glad. It's weird how nay-sayers just ignore that. It's like they just can't accept the possibility that the Thing could have looked more like the real Thing even with make-up, so they go "NANNANAANAANANNNANANANAN-I can't HEAR you-blahblananananblablablaNANANANA".

On more than one occasion, I've seen/heard make-up people, Michael Chiklis and, I'm pretty sure, Tim Story say they could have made him look however they wanted, but they chose to make him more human and less "cartoony".

So either they were being misleading or it's purely a matter of choice - not something that can't be done.

I'm optimistic that there's at least some hope for improvement in the sequel.