Am I the only one bothered by the term "people of color"?

[Thundercrack85]

We are all descendants of atrocities. Slavery has been around for thousands of years and still exists today. Pretty much all of us had ancestors that were affected by atrocities be it slavery, the Holocaust, war, etc. etc. No one alive today deserves reparations and no one alive today deserves to pay for said reparations. People preaching that should happen are breeding racism into a new generation that their parents and grandparents struggled so hard to overcome. It's a sad irony. Or maybe it's purposeful, I don't know.

It's silly to compare the slavery found in say the Roman Empire to Transatlantic chattel slavery. It's also pointless. And ironically, Holocaust victims generally did receive restitution. So did the victims of slavery in other countries, and there are various ongoing settlements in the Caribbean. I believe someone earlier lectured you about European history and feudalism.

You have a real problem here. The descendants of African slaves remain socially disadvantaged because neither they nor their immediate ancestors who existed as slaves and / or as legally sanctioned second-class citizens ever received any sort of restitution. You can not care, but you can't pretend it's not a problem.

I don't think reparations have to be strictly limited to monetary compensation, but you need some kind of recompense if you ever want to close the gap.

You don't even want affirmative action.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The Civil War wasn't paid for in blood?

Immigrants, which we all descend from, came here mostly with next to nothing and built their life from hard work. Freed slaves had the same start.

If you seek reparations, you may also reach out to the tribe leaders that sold their fellow brethren to the white man.

Think man, slaves worked from the cradle to the grave and all their labor went into the pockets of white Americans.

The African warlords got paid for kidnapping. White Americans made fortunes from generations of free labor.

Don't pretend there's not an empire building difference.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's silly to compare the slavery found in say the Roman Empire to Transatlantic chattel slavery. It's also pointless. And ironically, Holocaust victims generally did receive restitution. So did the victims of slavery in other countries, and there are various ongoing settlements in the Caribbean. I believe someone earlier lectured you about European history and feudalism.

You have a real problem here. The descendants of African slaves remain socially disadvantaged because neither they nor their immediate ancestors who existed as slaves and / or as legally sanctioned second-class citizens ever received any sort of restitution. You can not care, but you can't pretend it's not a problem.

I don't think reparations have to be strictly limited to monetary compensation, but you need some kind of recompense if you ever want to close the gap.

You don't even want affirmative action.

I think black students who are ambitious and smart should be given free college.

but they have to be able to prove they're the descendants of slaves.

That will shorten the wealth/power gap, show an honest effort by the goverment to right past wrongs, and help the entire country.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Chaseter, are you obtuse or just unhealthily defensive?

Do you understand that even after slavery ended, there was a century of state-enforced discrimination against black people? Did you not study Jim Crow in class or something? Voting Rights Act? Separate drinking fountains? Martin Luther King? Do any of these things ring a bell?

You seriously don't see how black people had it differently from European immigrants?

I'm a ****ing European immigrant and I see it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Anytime you bring up racism.

"Get over it"

"Blacks sold slaves"

"Black on black crime"

"We have a black president"

We're stuck in the Matrix program where blacks are too scared to bring up racism past/present/future.

 

[Smashlilman]

The Civil War wasn't paid for in blood?

The Civil War was a War of Secession. Slavery was just a back drop for both sides to morally justify there actions. The North didn't invade the South to free the slaves. They fought to defeat the treasonous secessionist. Freeing the slaves was a side political benefit for Abraham Lincoln. It's like how we invaded Germany during WWII for reasons completely unrelated to the Holocaust but we used the actions of Germany to justify the war cause after the fact.

Immigrants, which we all descend from, came here mostly with next to nothing and built their life from hard work. Freed slaves had the same start.

BS the Immigrants from Europe came here with skill sets that they developed in there home countries and thousands of years of culture and heritage that guided there collective actions as a community. They came to the US and basically picked up where they left off at home. If they were shop keepers in Europe they immigrated to the US(with the clothes on there backs) and earned enough money to open a shop and became a shop keeper in the US.

African American didn't have that luxury. We were for the most part labors. During slavery if you try to learn anything that was out side of what Southern Society felt you where meant to do you were tortured and killed. After slavery if you step out of that line the KKK would basically do the same. If an Black person learn how to be a shop keeper and he gain some success the KKK would come in burn down his business and/or kill him and use him as an example to keep other Black people from doing the same. So for years and years Black people had no choice but to be on the bottom rung of society. We didn't have many skills out side of what white Southern Societies allowed us to have. Unlike immigrant Europeans we didn't have generations and generation of Parents passing on there business and labor skill sets to there kids. So black communities where stuck with being dependent on white business that serviced black communities. What's even more funny is that Koreans realized this and took advantage of it. Thats why 90% of all Black Beauty supply stores are Korean owned. lol

If you seek reparations, you may also reach out to the tribe leaders that sold their fellow brethren to the white man.

To late those tribal leaders got wiped out by colonialism.
[YT]OJe1W_HIWmA[/YT]

 

[Black Narcissus]

Nah, I'm more bothered by the term ''minorities'', nothing really specific as to why. I just always cringe.

 

[Smashlilman]

Nah, I'm more bothered by the term ''minorities'', nothing really specific as to why. I just always cringe.

Mainly because its actual meaning is slipping away due to alot of peoples improper usage of the word and it's being used in a way that's changes its meaning to "not white" instead of "small group". Its kind of like how Gaijin means "Foreigner" in Japanese but because of the way that Japanese people use it it ends up changing the meaning to "Not Japanese".

Some people will called different ethnic groups minorities even if they are actually the majority like when people call certain states majority minority states or when people go to foreign countries and say "wow look at all the minorities".

 

[chaseter]

It's silly to compare the slavery found in say the Roman Empire to Transatlantic chattel slavery. It's also pointless. And ironically, Holocaust victims generally did receive restitution. So did the victims of slavery in other countries, and there are various ongoing settlements in the Caribbean. I believe someone earlier lectured you about European history and feudalism.

You have a real problem here. The descendants of African slaves remain socially disadvantaged because neither they nor their immediate ancestors who existed as slaves and / or as legally sanctioned second-class citizens ever received any sort of restitution. You can not care, but you can't pretend it's not a problem.

I don't think reparations have to be strictly limited to monetary compensation, but you need some kind of recompense if you ever want to close the gap.

You don't even want affirmative action.

What should have been done 150 years ago is different than what someone expects today. If someone expects something today, they are a turd and they don't deserve squat. I would agree freed slaves deserved some cash paid for by the selling of slave holders' land and assets. That time has passed, time to move on.

Affirmative action had a place 50 years ago when the nation just exited institutionalized racism. Today, it has turned into institutionalized racism, affecting generations that had nothing to do with the atrocities previous generations committed.

 

[Spooderman]

I think black students who are ambitious and smart should be given free college.

but they have to be able to prove they're the descendants of slaves

Well I think everyone who is ambitious and smart should be given a free college (like they do in Europe)

This is one of the problems of being ideologically focused on race, you ignore class struggles.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Well I think everyone who is ambitious and smart should be given a free college (like they do in Europe)

This is one of the problems of being ideologically focused on race, you ignore class struggles.

Does giving Native Americans casinos ignore class struggles?

 

[DeadPresident]

What should have been done 150 years ago is different than what someone expects today. If someone expects something today, they are a turd and they don't deserve squat. I would agree freed slaves deserved some cash paid for by the selling of slave holders' land and assets. That time has passed, time to move on.

Affirmative action had a place 50 years ago when the nation just exited institutionalized racism. Today, it has turned into institutionalized racism, affecting generations that had nothing to do with the atrocities previous generations committed.

You need to get your head out of the sand. "Oh well, they didn't take their opportunity to do it then, so it isn't my problem now!" doesn't cut it.

Black Americans should be on the same economic and political footing as everyone else, particularly those who have the capital and resources to succeed. The barriers to entry for Americans to succeed are high, class and race are massive obstacles. Here's a newsflash, but social issues created by income and class disparity affects everyone, it's a systemic problem that ends up having implications for everybody, not just those directly affected by it. One of the best things for America as a whole would be to try and provide free education and skills development for any "minority" or anyone incapable of affording it themselves. Companies that grew from ventures that benefitted from slavery have a moral obligation to redress that systemic imbalance too.

Social prosperity is quite easy, the more content and well-equipped people you have in a society, the more contentment and prosperity you spread. The fact that so many non-white Americans struggle to gain economic and political mobility doesn't just hurt them, it hurts everyone else too. The saddest part about it is people like you have some kind of ideological opposition to it for some reason. It's not going to take any money from you that the government isn't already getting. A few hundred billion that would have gone to some ridiculous military engagement would go extremely far in addressing the economic exclusion that keeps America in such a tenuous social position.

 

[TheBat812]

We are all descendants of atrocities. Slavery has been around for thousands of years and still exists today. Pretty much all of us had ancestors that were affected by atrocities be it slavery, the Holocaust, war, etc. etc. No one alive today deserves reparations and no one alive today deserves to pay for said reparations. People preaching that should happen are breeding racism into a new generation that their parents and grandparents struggled so hard to overcome. It's a sad irony. Or maybe it's purposeful, I don't know.

You probably ignored my huge post talking about the issues inherent, but I'll repeat it in a more concise way: The answer is not to just say 'everybody has had problems, so deal with it.' It is to recognize the way history has affected large groups of people and how it has continually been to the advantage of some and the disadvantage of whole communities - and act upon that to remedy it as best we can. Giving people money as reparations is a silly idea, but to spend time and resources to improve the communities destroyed by years of horrible policies is within our ability to do and honestly, is the responsibility of our government.

Whether they be white, black, or any other race, the government needs to do more for those who need more help, and that comes in the form of reforming the infrastructure that is impeding them from having a realistic chance of attaining the American dream of living out of poverty and having a REAL opportunity for upward mobility.

 

[Schlosser85]

What should have been done 150 years ago is different than what someone expects today. If someone expects something today, they are a turd and they don't deserve squat. I would agree freed slaves deserved some cash paid for by the selling of slave holders' land and assets. That time has passed, time to move on.

Affirmative action had a place 50 years ago when the nation just exited institutionalized racism. Today, it has turned into institutionalized racism, affecting generations that had nothing to do with the atrocities previous generations committed.

Agreed, again.

 

[Victarion]

You have to think on a national scale. The United States as a country profited from slavery. The very White House, the Capitol, etc were built in part by uncompensated slave labor. The country as a whole profited from slavery, not just individuals.

Ironically, the federal government under Lincoln did compensate some for losing their slaves in DC.

Even as modern-day Americans who never owned slaves, you and the nation reaping the benefits of slave labor.

I never turned a profit. That and the insinuations here are causing me psychological anguish. Does that mean I can have reparations for not turning profit?

 

[DeadPresident]

You have to think on a national scale. The United States as a country profited from slavery. The very White House, the Capitol, etc were built in part by uncompensated slave labor. The country as a whole profited from slavery, not just individuals.

Ironically, the federal government under Lincoln did compensate some for losing their slaves in DC.

Even as modern-day Americans who never owned slaves, you and the nation reaping the benefits of slave labor.

This seems futile, bruh. Nobody here wants to try and piece together the picture, or seem to have the intellect required to extrapolate how historical events can exponentially increase and lead to an imbalanced system.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, hope springs eternal.

 

[chaseter]

You probably ignored my huge post talking about the issues inherent, but I'll repeat it in a more concise way: The answer is not to just say 'everybody has had problems, so deal with it.' It is to recognize the way history has affected large groups of people and how it has continually been to the advantage of some and the disadvantage of whole communities - and act upon that to remedy it as best we can. Giving people money as reparations is a silly idea, but to spend time and resources to improve the communities destroyed by years of horrible policies is within our ability to do and honestly, is the responsibility of our government.

Whether they be white, black, or any other race, the government needs to do more for those who need more help, and that comes in the form of reforming the infrastructure that is impeding them from having a realistic chance of attaining the American dream of living out of poverty and having a REAL opportunity for upward mobility.

Allowing everyone equal opportunity is the goal. We have laws that enforce that. Laws that give some a better opportunity at the expense of others is destructive. I understand the history but at what point do we move on as a country? Hell...we are still being beat over the head for reparations and that was well over a century ago (see this thread).

 

[Thundercrack85]

In order for everyone to have equal opportunity they need to be on equal footing.

How can you expect to move on without making amends?

This just strikes me as common sense.

 

[Schlosser85]

"Making amends" or financial reparations should have been done at the time, when both perpetrators and victims of slavery were still alive.

Now, hundreds of years later, talking about "making amends" and reparations strikes a lot of people as punishing people who never owned slaves to compensate people who were never slaves, which is why a lot of people don't want to hear about it.

It's similar to how Israel has been guilt-tripping "Holocaust reparations" out of Germany for the past seventy years. After a certain point, it stops having anything to do with the atrocities it's an ostensible reparation for and is just about money.

I don't owe anybody anything, just like nobody owes me anything.

 

[Thundercrack85]

"Making amends" or financial reparations should have been done at the time, when both perpetrators and victims of slavery were still alive.

Now, hundreds of years later, talking about "making amends" and reparations strikes a lot of people as punishing people who never owned slaves to compensate people who were never slaves, which is why a lot of people don't want to hear about it.

It's similar to how Israel has been guilt-tripping "Holocaust reparations" out of Germany for the past seventy years. After a certain point, it stops having anything to do with the atrocities it's an ostensible reparation for and is just about money.

I don't owe anybody anything, just like nobody owes me anything.

Slavery ended in 1865, not hundreds of years ago. Segregation ended in 1964 on a federal level and continued for decades on a state level. Let's not pretend this is some distant memory. Mississippi ratified the 13th Amendment in what? 2013? Alabama had a ban on interracial marriage until 2000. Let's not pretend this is ancient history.

If you don't think Germany still owes people for what it did in living memory, then well, **** it. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don't think young Germans or young white Americans "owe" anybody anything for things that happened before they were born, that they had nothing to do with.

I don't really see why that's such a radical concept.

 

[Schlosser85]

This whole "you have a responsibility to atone for the sins of your ancestors" crap is racist in and of itself and only furthers racial divides, not leading away from them.

 

[Thundercrack85]

You seem to believe states have no responsibility for their past transgressions.

It's an interesting concept. I sort of understand it from an American perspective. It's a nation of immigrants, and many of the people here today are completely removed from past American history on a personal level. Europeans often say Americans have no sense of history, which seems to be true. And usually it's a good thing. They don't carry grudges. But in this case it seems like a problem.

Still, Germany? Are modern-day Germans not heirs to the Third Reich's legacy? Because as far as the government is concerned, the Federal Republic is the direct successor to West Germany, which is the direct successor to Hitler's Germany.

My perspective is that if you claim to be part of a culture / nation you have to take the bad with the good. The high points, and the darkest chapters.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I will never understand people who think that addressing socioeconomic inequalities stemming from both present and past atrocities is somehow 'punishing white people today for the sins of the ancestors.'

Really, it's the ultimate admittance of supreme narcissism. You're taking an issue that's not about you, and making it about you. As if creating policies that focus upon the very real advantages white people possess in western societies is somehow going to start oppressing them.