The Dark Knight Rises Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXVII

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]382409[/split]

 

[Nave 'Torment']

hey guys, hope everyone's doing alright. I haven't been around the boards for a while but that didn't stop me from theorizing around TDKR! The new pics of Anne, the clips, posters, et al. looks delicious and should really make the naysayers believe in Anne's ability now! At the very friggin least!

That xoxo poster feels right it too many ways

I've been thinking about some of the things that make TDKR such a mythical addition to the trilogy and i THINK I understand why Nolan had to choose three distinct women as Bruce's love-interest throughout the trilogy.

Hear me out.

We all know that this trilogy is conscious about the many archetypes that are at work -- and with TDKR we have a very vivid portrayal of the barbarians invading town with the cold of the winter (Norse much?) and a reborn hero coming back to drive them out. But closely related to all this is the Norse-logic of "fate" -- the heroes are heroic because they accept fate and face it head on despite their grim portents. That's pretty much what Batman does at the end of TDK. However, closely associated with fate are, of course, the three fates. Bear with me -- if we forget the ugly faces of the Norns for a sec. these three aspects of "fate" correspond to a powerful and strong female figure. I think Rachel Dawse, Miranda Tate, and Selina Kyle each represent these three aspects of fate/mythical femininity in turn.

The three aspects include the Maiden (who dies, e.g. Persephone), the 'Mother' (who nurtures, e.g. Demeter), and the dark and terrifying goddess-of-the-underworld (who has both the life-giving and the life-taking powers, e.g. Hecate).

Rachel's innocence, connection to Bruce's youth, his past, and eventual death because of her association with Batman (Persephone "dies" because she is with the Lord of the Dead) makes her a visible Persephone figure -- his "only hope for a normal life." Her death is necessary in that "normalcy" has become impossible for Bruce who is absorbed completely into the Bat-persona.

Miranda Tate/Talia is, according to both her official description as a leading figure at Wayne Enterprises and as our speculation of her being Talia, very much the "nurturing" goddess. As a member of W.E. she's encouraging Bruce to revive his family name and get back from the trauma that was Rachel's death, and Talia is as we know perhaps the most possessive and caring lover Batman has ever encountered in the comics--I remember reading her "reviving" Bruce and pushing him to go into NML as well as the many other circumstances surrounding a possible Knightfall adaptation (replacing Dr. Shondra). She is, along with her direct connection to the Waynes' lineage, a caring 'mother' figure to Bruce who is allowing him to be born again, to an extent.

It brings us back to Selina, the Hecate/demonic/noire femme. Yes, she could very easily be a femme fatale straight out of noir fiction but even so the femme fatale is as much a terrifying female figure as this goddess-archetype. It's the third face of Persephone-- the female after she dies and is burning with retribution. If the Maiden represents life in this way (batman begins) Hecate represents it's opposite--and by extention the same thing as you cannot have life without death (the trilogy ends). Of course, if Batman really is a representation of death and the shadowy nocturnal world, his most fitting companion would be Catwoman--for the rest of his existence.

The three goddesses/fates/norns also figure heavily in the Norse myths because at the end of the day, Odin, the central Norse deity, is married to Frigga who weaves a mysterious thread in her abode, just as the Norns weave the incomprehensible threads of fate in theirs. Scholars are equating Frigga to the Norns and to fate because Odin's "heroism" stems from that acceptance of fate, while the more antagonistic figures resent their fate and are obssessed with it being unfair (I'm looking at you Harvey, and you, existential Joker who thinks that the morality of the world is a "bad joke.") In addition to that, Frigga is today argued to be an aspect of Freya -- the goddess who collects half of those slain in battle, while the other half goes to the Valkyries to Valhalla. I'll be keepign an eye out as to whetehr or not Catwoman is portrayed in this regard in any way. The Norns were Jotuns, and if Bane's team of barbarians invading Gotham in the proverbial winter equates him to the Jotuns, it shouldn't be surprising why Catwoman is initially siding with him.

The three goddesses/fates/norns are, finally, three aspects of the Earth-Goddess (e.g. Diana), who, in primitive mythology (and i'm talking paleolithic here, like those of the hunter-gatherers) have come to represent the land. In myths of the Heroic Quest we have the same Earth-Goddess overlooking the passage of kings and heroes as they serve to live and die for her -- when an existing king (Ra's Al Ghul's code of "heroism") grows impotent his inadequacy to rejuvinate the Earth-Goddess--and by extention the land--results in a very modern world that is corrupt and easily fragile. That's when he needs to "die" and he is killed ritually by his successor (Batman) -- the goddess is rejuvenated, the hero-who-has-lived-to-be-a-villain dies, and a greater "knight" (it is a knight) is born as the new hero (or superhero) of the land. In other words, these three aspects of the female goddess represents the land that the hero fights for -- Rachel, Miranda, and Selina Kyle equally symbolises the respective GOTHAM CITY in each film that they appear in. This last bit reminds me of Anne Hathaway's interview where she speaks about how each Catwoman belongs to the Gotham she is born in, of course -- she probably doesn't mean all this but it does lend an interesting parallel.

Christopher Nolan wanted to create a realistic noir Batman trilogy and ended up creating a mythical trilogy instead! And I love the guy for it. Moreover, the self-sacrificing Batman, the three-goddesses, the valkyrie woman, the fallen hero (like Balder), the trickster villain, the invading barbarians, and a Ragnarok-like somberness in the concluding movie all bring a Norse sensibility to the themes. I might write a more clear and comprehensive article on this before the movie comes out, but yeah. What you guys think?

 

[Anita18]

LOL last post in the old one, first post in the new one!

It all sounds awesome Nave, but it's really late here and I'm not thinking straight anymore, so...that's all I got.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

It's incredible, really. Anyone who really frequents the Hype! is obsessed with at least one film that's coming out. For me, I'm a huge Batman fan, but I latch on to any news that comes in regarding the X-Men franchise. My point is, we all have our things, but you, Nave, have taken all the energy and time spent following this film and applied it to unbelievable and extremely intelligent parallels. Even if Nolan didn't intend to follow the path that your theory does, you've still created/connected a very smart likeness of the branches of a Batman film trilogy to Norse mythology. I found it extremely fascinating and would love to see what you come up with next.

 

[KalMart]

I like the motorcycle thingy.

 

[Doctor Who]

hey guys, hope everyone's doing alright. I haven't been around the boards for a while but that didn't stop me from theorizing around TDKR! The new pics of Anne, the clips, posters, et al. looks delicious and should really make the naysayers believe in Anne's ability now! At the very friggin least!

That xoxo poster feels right it too many ways

I've been thinking about some of the things that make TDKR such a mythical addition to the trilogy and i THINK I understand why Nolan had to choose three distinct women as Bruce's love-interest throughout the trilogy.

Hear me out.

We all know that this trilogy is conscious about the many archetypes that are at work -- and with TDKR we have a very vivid portrayal of the barbarians invading town with the cold of the winter (Norse much?) and a reborn hero coming back to drive them out. But closely related to all this is the Norse-logic of "fate" -- the heroes are heroic because they accept fate and face it head on despite their grim portents. That's pretty much what Batman does at the end of TDK. However, closely associated with fate are, of course, the three fates. Bear with me -- if we forget the ugly faces of the Norns for a sec. these three aspects of "fate" correspond to a powerful and strong female figure. I think Rachel Dawse, Miranda Tate, and Selina Kyle each represent these three aspects of fate/mythical femininity in turn.

The three aspects include the Maiden (who dies, e.g. Persephone), the 'Mother' (who nurtures, e.g. Demeter), and the dark and terrifying goddess-of-the-underworld (who has both the life-giving and the life-taking powers, e.g. Hecate).

Rachel's innocence, connection to Bruce's youth, his past, and eventual death because of her association with Batman (Persephone "dies" because she is with the Lord of the Dead) makes her a visible Persephone figure -- his "only hope for a normal life." Her death is necessary in that "normalcy" has become impossible for Bruce who is absorbed completely into the Bat-persona.

Miranda Tate/Talia is, according to both her official description as a leading figure at Wayne Enterprises and as our speculation of her being Talia, very much the "nurturing" goddess. As a member of W.E. she's encouraging Bruce to revive his family name and get back from the trauma that was Rachel's death, and Talia is as we know perhaps the most possessive and caring lover Batman has ever encountered in the comics--I remember reading her "reviving" Bruce and pushing him to go into NML as well as the many other circumstances surrounding a possible Knightfall adaptation (replacing Dr. Shondra). She is, along with her direct connection to the Waynes' lineage, a caring 'mother' figure to Bruce who is allowing him to be born again, to an extent.

It brings us back to Selina, the Hecate/demonic/noire femme. Yes, she could very easily be a femme fatale straight out of noir fiction but even so the femme fatale is as much a terrifying female figure as this goddess-archetype. It's the third face of Persephone-- the female after she dies and is burning with retribution. If the Maiden represents life in this way (batman begins) Hecate represents it's opposite--and by extention the same thing as you cannot have life without death (the trilogy ends). Of course, if Batman really is a representation of death and the shadowy nocturnal world, his most fitting companion would be Catwoman--for the rest of his existence.

The three goddesses/fates/norns also figure heavily in the Norse myths because at the end of the day, Odin, the central Norse deity, is married to Frigga who weaves a mysterious thread in her abode, just as the Norns weave the incomprehensible threads of fate in theirs. Scholars are equating Frigga to the Norns and to fate because Odin's "heroism" stems from that acceptance of fate, while the more antagonistic figures resent their fate and are obssessed with it being unfair (I'm looking at you Harvey, and you, existential Joker who thinks that the morality of the world is a "bad joke.") In addition to that, Frigga is today argued to be an aspect of Freya -- the goddess who collects half of those slain in battle, while the other half goes to the Valkyries to Valhalla. I'll be keepign an eye out as to whetehr or not Catwoman is portrayed in this regard in any way. The Norns were Jotuns, and if Bane's team of barbarians invading Gotham in the proverbial winter equates him to the Jotuns, it shouldn't be surprising why Catwoman is initially siding with him.

The three goddesses/fates/norns are, finally, three aspects of the Earth-Goddess (e.g. Diana), who, in primitive mythology (and i'm talking paleolithic here, like those of the hunter-gatherers) have come to represent the land. In myths of the Heroic Quest we have the same Earth-Goddess overlooking the passage of kings and heroes as they serve to live and die for her -- when an existing king (Ra's Al Ghul's code of "heroism") grows impotent his inadequacy to rejuvinate the Earth-Goddess--and by extention the land--results in a very modern world that is corrupt and easily fragile. That's when he needs to "die" and he is killed ritually by his successor (Batman) -- the goddess is rejuvenated, the hero-who-has-lived-to-be-a-villain dies, and a greater "knight" (it is a knight) is born as the new hero (or superhero) of the land. In other words, these three aspects of the female goddess represents the land that the hero fights for -- Rachel, Miranda, and Selina Kyle equally symbolises the respective GOTHAM CITY in each film that they appear in. This last bit reminds me of Anne Hathaway's interview where she speaks about how each Catwoman belongs to the Gotham she is born in, of course -- she probably doesn't mean all this but it does lend an interesting parallel.

Christopher Nolan wanted to create a realistic noir Batman trilogy and ended up creating a mythical trilogy instead! And I love the guy for it. Moreover, the self-sacrificing Batman, the three-goddesses, the valkyrie woman, the fallen hero (like Balder), the trickster villain, the invading barbarians, and a Ragnarok-like somberness in the concluding movie all bring a Norse sensibility to the themes. I might write a more clear and comprehensive article on this before the movie comes out, but yeah. What you guys think?

Never. Stop. Typing.

 

[AnneFan]

 

[CapedCrusader14]

That was a very interesting read Nave. I'm saving that post

 

[TheFuture]

All of these banners/posters of Catwoman over the last week sure have got the blood pumping. Even her detractors have to admit that Hathaway is looking very attractive and sexual.

 

[MrWayne]

AND... obviously WB has ninjas on the hype because they are now showing off more of her suit and it's "texture". I remember that being one of the main topics of discussion among the naysayers

 

[Blue Sugar]

Just noticed the serrated claws on the heel.

 

[BuddhaWasABat]

Is that fan made?

 

[BatLobster]

Loving that analysis Nate, very well-done.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if the Nolans were intentionally or just subconsciously referencing Norse mythology. Joseph Campbell would say all these myths are inside of us, and only need to be tapped into. It's clear these guys are tapping into something that resonates with these films.

Also, I love how even with the goggles down look, the shape of them still gives you a subtle cat-motif.

 

[Cassandra Cain]

This poster is amazing. I agree, this would've been a badass teaser poster! Could you imagine if they had released this before any news of Catwoman was in this film? The forums would've been soaking with speculation on whose heel this belongs to (but I'm sure conclusion would've lead to the Cat). t: And that bat symbol within her lips...there better be a BatCat smooch dammit!!!

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Yeah I would have liked it if that poster was the official tease to this Catwoman back in July... instead of that godawful teaser image on the bat pod.

 

[Gee]

Yeah I would have liked it if that poster was the official tease to this Catwoman back in July... instead of that godawful teaser image on the bat pod.

But then the set pics of Anne's double on the Batpod the day later would have killed any awesomeness of the heel poster.

"What's with the lame goggles?! That chin strap?! Bland costume?! AWWWW horrible!"

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

But then the set pics of Anne's double on the Batpod the day later would have killed any awesomeness of the heel poster.

"What's with the lame goggles?! That chin strap?! Bland costume?! AWWWW horrible!"

Well then Anne-Cat deserved a better teaser image overall... and people said that about the teaser anyway.

Bane's was amazing!

 

[Street Vendor]

hey guys, hope everyone's doing alright. I haven't been around the boards for a while but that didn't stop me from theorizing around TDKR! The new pics of Anne, the clips, posters, et al. looks delicious and should really make the naysayers believe in Anne's ability now! At the very friggin least!

That xoxo poster feels right it too many ways

I've been thinking about some of the things that make TDKR such a mythical addition to the trilogy and i THINK I understand why Nolan had to choose three distinct women as Bruce's love-interest throughout the trilogy.

Hear me out.

We all know that this trilogy is conscious about the many archetypes that are at work -- and with TDKR we have a very vivid portrayal of the barbarians invading town with the cold of the winter (Norse much?) and a reborn hero coming back to drive them out. But closely related to all this is the Norse-logic of "fate" -- the heroes are heroic because they accept fate and face it head on despite their grim portents. That's pretty much what Batman does at the end of TDK. However, closely associated with fate are, of course, the three fates. Bear with me -- if we forget the ugly faces of the Norns for a sec. these three aspects of "fate" correspond to a powerful and strong female figure. I think Rachel Dawse, Miranda Tate, and Selina Kyle each represent these three aspects of fate/mythical femininity in turn.

The three aspects include the Maiden (who dies, e.g. Persephone), the 'Mother' (who nurtures, e.g. Demeter), and the dark and terrifying goddess-of-the-underworld (who has both the life-giving and the life-taking powers, e.g. Hecate).

Rachel's innocence, connection to Bruce's youth, his past, and eventual death because of her association with Batman (Persephone "dies" because she is with the Lord of the Dead) makes her a visible Persephone figure -- his "only hope for a normal life." Her death is necessary in that "normalcy" has become impossible for Bruce who is absorbed completely into the Bat-persona.

Miranda Tate/Talia is, according to both her official description as a leading figure at Wayne Enterprises and as our speculation of her being Talia, very much the "nurturing" goddess. As a member of W.E. she's encouraging Bruce to revive his family name and get back from the trauma that was Rachel's death, and Talia is as we know perhaps the most possessive and caring lover Batman has ever encountered in the comics--I remember reading her "reviving" Bruce and pushing him to go into NML as well as the many other circumstances surrounding a possible Knightfall adaptation (replacing Dr. Shondra). She is, along with her direct connection to the Waynes' lineage, a caring 'mother' figure to Bruce who is allowing him to be born again, to an extent.

It brings us back to Selina, the Hecate/demonic/noire femme. Yes, she could very easily be a femme fatale straight out of noir fiction but even so the femme fatale is as much a terrifying female figure as this goddess-archetype. It's the third face of Persephone-- the female after she dies and is burning with retribution. If the Maiden represents life in this way (batman begins) Hecate represents it's opposite--and by extention the same thing as you cannot have life without death (the trilogy ends). Of course, if Batman really is a representation of death and the shadowy nocturnal world, his most fitting companion would be Catwoman--for the rest of his existence.

The three goddesses/fates/norns also figure heavily in the Norse myths because at the end of the day, Odin, the central Norse deity, is married to Frigga who weaves a mysterious thread in her abode, just as the Norns weave the incomprehensible threads of fate in theirs. Scholars are equating Frigga to the Norns and to fate because Odin's "heroism" stems from that acceptance of fate, while the more antagonistic figures resent their fate and are obssessed with it being unfair (I'm looking at you Harvey, and you, existential Joker who thinks that the morality of the world is a "bad joke.") In addition to that, Frigga is today argued to be an aspect of Freya -- the goddess who collects half of those slain in battle, while the other half goes to the Valkyries to Valhalla. I'll be keepign an eye out as to whetehr or not Catwoman is portrayed in this regard in any way. The Norns were Jotuns, and if Bane's team of barbarians invading Gotham in the proverbial winter equates him to the Jotuns, it shouldn't be surprising why Catwoman is initially siding with him.

The three goddesses/fates/norns are, finally, three aspects of the Earth-Goddess (e.g. Diana), who, in primitive mythology (and i'm talking paleolithic here, like those of the hunter-gatherers) have come to represent the land. In myths of the Heroic Quest we have the same Earth-Goddess overlooking the passage of kings and heroes as they serve to live and die for her -- when an existing king (Ra's Al Ghul's code of "heroism") grows impotent his inadequacy to rejuvinate the Earth-Goddess--and by extention the land--results in a very modern world that is corrupt and easily fragile. That's when he needs to "die" and he is killed ritually by his successor (Batman) -- the goddess is rejuvenated, the hero-who-has-lived-to-be-a-villain dies, and a greater "knight" (it is a knight) is born as the new hero (or superhero) of the land. In other words, these three aspects of the female goddess represents the land that the hero fights for -- Rachel, Miranda, and Selina Kyle equally symbolises the respective GOTHAM CITY in each film that they appear in. This last bit reminds me of Anne Hathaway's interview where she speaks about how each Catwoman belongs to the Gotham she is born in, of course -- she probably doesn't mean all this but it does lend an interesting parallel.

Christopher Nolan wanted to create a realistic noir Batman trilogy and ended up creating a mythical trilogy instead! And I love the guy for it. Moreover, the self-sacrificing Batman, the three-goddesses, the valkyrie woman, the fallen hero (like Balder), the trickster villain, the invading barbarians, and a Ragnarok-like somberness in the concluding movie all bring a Norse sensibility to the themes. I might write a more clear and comprehensive article on this before the movie comes out, but yeah. What you guys think?

Wonderful post.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

hey guys, hope everyone's doing alright. I haven't been around the boards for a while but that didn't stop me from theorizing around TDKR! The new pics of Anne, the clips, posters, et al. looks delicious and should really make the naysayers believe in Anne's ability now! At the very friggin least!

That xoxo poster feels right it too many ways

I've been thinking about some of the things that make TDKR such a mythical addition to the trilogy and i THINK I understand why Nolan had to choose three distinct women as Bruce's love-interest throughout the trilogy.

Hear me out.

We all know that this trilogy is conscious about the many archetypes that are at work -- and with TDKR we have a very vivid portrayal of the barbarians invading town with the cold of the winter (Norse much?) and a reborn hero coming back to drive them out. But closely related to all this is the Norse-logic of "fate" -- the heroes are heroic because they accept fate and face it head on despite their grim portents. That's pretty much what Batman does at the end of TDK. However, closely associated with fate are, of course, the three fates. Bear with me -- if we forget the ugly faces of the Norns for a sec. these three aspects of "fate" correspond to a powerful and strong female figure. I think Rachel Dawse, Miranda Tate, and Selina Kyle each represent these three aspects of fate/mythical femininity in turn.

The three aspects include the Maiden (who dies, e.g. Persephone), the 'Mother' (who nurtures, e.g. Demeter), and the dark and terrifying goddess-of-the-underworld (who has both the life-giving and the life-taking powers, e.g. Hecate).

Rachel's innocence, connection to Bruce's youth, his past, and eventual death because of her association with Batman (Persephone "dies" because she is with the Lord of the Dead) makes her a visible Persephone figure -- his "only hope for a normal life." Her death is necessary in that "normalcy" has become impossible for Bruce who is absorbed completely into the Bat-persona.

Miranda Tate/Talia is, according to both her official description as a leading figure at Wayne Enterprises and as our speculation of her being Talia, very much the "nurturing" goddess. As a member of W.E. she's encouraging Bruce to revive his family name and get back from the trauma that was Rachel's death, and Talia is as we know perhaps the most possessive and caring lover Batman has ever encountered in the comics--I remember reading her "reviving" Bruce and pushing him to go into NML as well as the many other circumstances surrounding a possible Knightfall adaptation (replacing Dr. Shondra). She is, along with her direct connection to the Waynes' lineage, a caring 'mother' figure to Bruce who is allowing him to be born again, to an extent.

It brings us back to Selina, the Hecate/demonic/noire femme. Yes, she could very easily be a femme fatale straight out of noir fiction but even so the femme fatale is as much a terrifying female figure as this goddess-archetype. It's the third face of Persephone-- the female after she dies and is burning with retribution. If the Maiden represents life in this way (batman begins) Hecate represents it's opposite--and by extention the same thing as you cannot have life without death (the trilogy ends). Of course, if Batman really is a representation of death and the shadowy nocturnal world, his most fitting companion would be Catwoman--for the rest of his existence.

The three goddesses/fates/norns also figure heavily in the Norse myths because at the end of the day, Odin, the central Norse deity, is married to Frigga who weaves a mysterious thread in her abode, just as the Norns weave the incomprehensible threads of fate in theirs. Scholars are equating Frigga to the Norns and to fate because Odin's "heroism" stems from that acceptance of fate, while the more antagonistic figures resent their fate and are obssessed with it being unfair (I'm looking at you Harvey, and you, existential Joker who thinks that the morality of the world is a "bad joke.") In addition to that, Frigga is today argued to be an aspect of Freya -- the goddess who collects half of those slain in battle, while the other half goes to the Valkyries to Valhalla. I'll be keepign an eye out as to whetehr or not Catwoman is portrayed in this regard in any way. The Norns were Jotuns, and if Bane's team of barbarians invading Gotham in the proverbial winter equates him to the Jotuns, it shouldn't be surprising why Catwoman is initially siding with him.

The three goddesses/fates/norns are, finally, three aspects of the Earth-Goddess (e.g. Diana), who, in primitive mythology (and i'm talking paleolithic here, like those of the hunter-gatherers) have come to represent the land. In myths of the Heroic Quest we have the same Earth-Goddess overlooking the passage of kings and heroes as they serve to live and die for her -- when an existing king (Ra's Al Ghul's code of "heroism") grows impotent his inadequacy to rejuvinate the Earth-Goddess--and by extention the land--results in a very modern world that is corrupt and easily fragile. That's when he needs to "die" and he is killed ritually by his successor (Batman) -- the goddess is rejuvenated, the hero-who-has-lived-to-be-a-villain dies, and a greater "knight" (it is a knight) is born as the new hero (or superhero) of the land. In other words, these three aspects of the female goddess represents the land that the hero fights for -- Rachel, Miranda, and Selina Kyle equally symbolises the respective GOTHAM CITY in each film that they appear in. This last bit reminds me of Anne Hathaway's interview where she speaks about how each Catwoman belongs to the Gotham she is born in, of course -- she probably doesn't mean all this but it does lend an interesting parallel.

Christopher Nolan wanted to create a realistic noir Batman trilogy and ended up creating a mythical trilogy instead! And I love the guy for it. Moreover, the self-sacrificing Batman, the three-goddesses, the valkyrie woman, the fallen hero (like Balder), the trickster villain, the invading barbarians, and a Ragnarok-like somberness in the concluding movie all bring a Norse sensibility to the themes. I might write a more clear and comprehensive article on this before the movie comes out, but yeah. What you guys think?

Excellent post.It's probably unintentionally but almost everything written so far coming from Mythology so i don't think your post is "digging it too much"

From Bible to Shakespeare to comic books, everything we know about literature pretty much comes from those mythological stories.

 

[A.Stabelli]

hey guys, hope everyone's doing alright. I haven't been around the boards for a while but that didn't stop me from theorizing around TDKR! The new pics of Anne, the clips, posters, et al. looks delicious and should really make the naysayers believe in Anne's ability now! At the very friggin least!

That xoxo poster feels right it too many ways

I've been thinking about some of the things that make TDKR such a mythical addition to the trilogy and i THINK I understand why Nolan had to choose three distinct women as Bruce's love-interest throughout the trilogy.

Hear me out.

We all know that this trilogy is conscious about the many archetypes that are at work -- and with TDKR we have a very vivid portrayal of the barbarians invading town with the cold of the winter (Norse much?) and a reborn hero coming back to drive them out. But closely related to all this is the Norse-logic of "fate" -- the heroes are heroic because they accept fate and face it head on despite their grim portents. That's pretty much what Batman does at the end of TDK. However, closely associated with fate are, of course, the three fates. Bear with me -- if we forget the ugly faces of the Norns for a sec. these three aspects of "fate" correspond to a powerful and strong female figure. I think Rachel Dawse, Miranda Tate, and Selina Kyle each represent these three aspects of fate/mythical femininity in turn.

The three aspects include the Maiden (who dies, e.g. Persephone), the 'Mother' (who nurtures, e.g. Demeter), and the dark and terrifying goddess-of-the-underworld (who has both the life-giving and the life-taking powers, e.g. Hecate).

Rachel's innocence, connection to Bruce's youth, his past, and eventual death because of her association with Batman (Persephone "dies" because she is with the Lord of the Dead) makes her a visible Persephone figure -- his "only hope for a normal life." Her death is necessary in that "normalcy" has become impossible for Bruce who is absorbed completely into the Bat-persona.

Miranda Tate/Talia is, according to both her official description as a leading figure at Wayne Enterprises and as our speculation of her being Talia, very much the "nurturing" goddess. As a member of W.E. she's encouraging Bruce to revive his family name and get back from the trauma that was Rachel's death, and Talia is as we know perhaps the most possessive and caring lover Batman has ever encountered in the comics--I remember reading her "reviving" Bruce and pushing him to go into NML as well as the many other circumstances surrounding a possible Knightfall adaptation (replacing Dr. Shondra). She is, along with her direct connection to the Waynes' lineage, a caring 'mother' figure to Bruce who is allowing him to be born again, to an extent.

It brings us back to Selina, the Hecate/demonic/noire femme. Yes, she could very easily be a femme fatale straight out of noir fiction but even so the femme fatale is as much a terrifying female figure as this goddess-archetype. It's the third face of Persephone-- the female after she dies and is burning with retribution. If the Maiden represents life in this way (batman begins) Hecate represents it's opposite--and by extention the same thing as you cannot have life without death (the trilogy ends). Of course, if Batman really is a representation of death and the shadowy nocturnal world, his most fitting companion would be Catwoman--for the rest of his existence.

The three goddesses/fates/norns also figure heavily in the Norse myths because at the end of the day, Odin, the central Norse deity, is married to Frigga who weaves a mysterious thread in her abode, just as the Norns weave the incomprehensible threads of fate in theirs. Scholars are equating Frigga to the Norns and to fate because Odin's "heroism" stems from that acceptance of fate, while the more antagonistic figures resent their fate and are obssessed with it being unfair (I'm looking at you Harvey, and you, existential Joker who thinks that the morality of the world is a "bad joke.") In addition to that, Frigga is today argued to be an aspect of Freya -- the goddess who collects half of those slain in battle, while the other half goes to the Valkyries to Valhalla. I'll be keepign an eye out as to whetehr or not Catwoman is portrayed in this regard in any way. The Norns were Jotuns, and if Bane's team of barbarians invading Gotham in the proverbial winter equates him to the Jotuns, it shouldn't be surprising why Catwoman is initially siding with him.

The three goddesses/fates/norns are, finally, three aspects of the Earth-Goddess (e.g. Diana), who, in primitive mythology (and i'm talking paleolithic here, like those of the hunter-gatherers) have come to represent the land. In myths of the Heroic Quest we have the same Earth-Goddess overlooking the passage of kings and heroes as they serve to live and die for her -- when an existing king (Ra's Al Ghul's code of "heroism") grows impotent his inadequacy to rejuvinate the Earth-Goddess--and by extention the land--results in a very modern world that is corrupt and easily fragile. That's when he needs to "die" and he is killed ritually by his successor (Batman) -- the goddess is rejuvenated, the hero-who-has-lived-to-be-a-villain dies, and a greater "knight" (it is a knight) is born as the new hero (or superhero) of the land. In other words, these three aspects of the female goddess represents the land that the hero fights for -- Rachel, Miranda, and Selina Kyle equally symbolises the respective GOTHAM CITY in each film that they appear in. This last bit reminds me of Anne Hathaway's interview where she speaks about how each Catwoman belongs to the Gotham she is born in, of course -- she probably doesn't mean all this but it does lend an interesting parallel.

Christopher Nolan wanted to create a realistic noir Batman trilogy and ended up creating a mythical trilogy instead! And I love the guy for it. Moreover, the self-sacrificing Batman, the three-goddesses, the valkyrie woman, the fallen hero (like Balder), the trickster villain, the invading barbarians, and a Ragnarok-like somberness in the concluding movie all bring a Norse sensibility to the themes. I might write a more clear and comprehensive article on this before the movie comes out, but yeah. What you guys think?

Wow. That was amazing. Yeah, you should write a more comprehensive article. I want more of this.

 

[craigdbfan]

Nave hitting another home run as usual.

 

[kvz5]

Damn Nave. That's one awesome post.

 

[hopeisreal]

Sorry...keep thinking of Pfeiffer and Hathaway, as good an actress as she is, just keeps up coming up short.

Once we saw the first footage of Ledger as Joker, we all shut our mouths, all the naysayers.
But I mean....she's just not hitting that mark

 

[Gee]

Sorry...keep thinking of Pfeiffer and Hathaway, as good an actress as she is, just keeps up coming up short.

Once we saw the first footage of Ledger as Joker, we all shut our mouths, all the naysayers.
But I mean....she's just not hitting that mark

Not at all. There are still haters out there.