Annihilation Conquest

[Docker2.0]

I think had Ultron showed up sooner and done more damage personally it probably wouldve had more weight. If you look at what he did, it was powerful but he really wasn't that much hands on.


I'm so wishing they'd turn these Annihilation comics into a video game! Marvel needs its own video game line, not just a game for Spidey. They are turning DC/WB like when their games seem to only involve 1 or 2 characters.

 

[Blader5489]

Ultron & the Phanlanx:

- Took over the Kree with ease.

It was done too quickly and too easily to be taken seriously. I think if they played up creepy moments like the Kree being vaporized for fuel then it would make Ultron seem more sinister.

- Wrapped the Kree space area in a bubble, that, not for nothing, nearly killed Nova.

So Nova nearly killing himself is a testament to Ultron's villainy?

- Ultron personally killed Moondragon, put Mantis in a coma, killed Prax and undid Ronan's plans, and pummeled Adam Warlock once. Tell me, when was the last time Ultron actually killed someone who was an Avenger?
- The Phalanx's "selects" killed Nova's first Centurian recruit as well as Gabe. Groot sacrificed himself to destroy their spire.

Mantis is still alive, Gabe's death was pointless, Groot's deaths are meaningless since we know he comes back, and Moondragon was unlikeable so who cares that she's gone. Ko-Rel's was the only death with any actual weight to it, but Ultron wasn't even responsible for it.

Also, I wouldn't use "undid Ronan's plans" as an example of Ultron being a badass. That was just bad writing and made Ronan's subplot just an entire waste of time.

- Ultron discovered genetic perfection and planned to take over the entire universe, starting with Earth. It was presumed if they could take over the Kree so quickly, Earth was screwed. Look how easily the Skrulls "hacked" Iron Man in SI. And sure you can go, "But he didn't actually do it and we knew it", then you have to hate every villain who plans or vows to take over the world or kill the franchise hero when we know damn well that can't actually happen.

Who cares? His genetic perfection plan lasted for about five pages, and, as you said, the Earth was never in any real danger. Contrast that to the first Annihilation where the universe was very much ****ed.

It was a mistake for DnA to ever introduce Earth into the equation, because as soon as you do that, you no there's no longer any plausibility to the villain's plans.

The point you KEEP MISSING is that Ultron COULDN'T destroy all those things you mention because ANNIHILUS ALREADY DESTROYED THEM! It is like if you demolish a building, if it isn't rebuilt, someone can't destroy it again. The Nova Corps and the Skrull Empire were already destroyed. The Kree were the only super-power left in that level of space and they were Ultron's pawns immediately.

Seemed to me like there were plenty of other alien civilizations left at the end of Conquest. And even still, I'm not saying Ultron need to destroy half the universe to seem threatening, I just think his presence lacked any sort of weight.

 

[Dread]

I think had Ultron showed up sooner and done more damage personally it probably wouldve had more weight. If you look at what he did, it was powerful but he really wasn't that much hands on.


I'm so wishing they'd turn these Annihilation comics into a video game! Marvel needs its own video game line, not just a game for Spidey. They are turning DC/WB like when their games seem to only involve 1 or 2 characters.

Annihilus sat back as his Annihilation Wave destroyed a messload of stuff, just as Ultron sat back and let the Phalanx assimilate planets and people for him. Yeah, bugs tearing stuff up is more violent, but I see the similarity of both approaches.

And yeah, an Annihilation Video Game series could be cool.

It was done too quickly and too easily to be taken seriously. I think if they played up creepy moments like the Kree being vaporized for fuel then it would make Ultron seem more sinister.

Point. Yes, it could have been handled and paced better.

BUT, we did see this element in the core title itself, when Ultron was introduced. I thought he was plenty creepy, especially when he was torturing Starlord. Or did that not count because "we knew he'd live" due to GOTG promos?

So Nova nearly killing himself is a testament to Ultron's villainy?

He didn't know he couldn't drill through the dome. That was part of the plan so you could credit that. It is like, if Captain America happened to step on a trap left behind by Norman Osborn, and gets vaporized, Osborn can't and wouldn't claim credit?

Mantis is still alive, Gabe's death was pointless, Groot's deaths are meaningless since we know he comes back, and Moondragon was unlikeable so who cares that she's gone. Ko-Rel's was the only death with any actual weight to it, but Ultron wasn't even responsible for it.

Unlikeable or not, Moondragon's death counts, as does Prax.

Also, I wouldn't use "undid Ronan's plans" as an example of Ultron being a badass. That was just bad writing and made Ronan's subplot just an entire waste of time.

I do agree that a fleet of Sentry robots wasn't what I expected to be underneath Ravenous' seat. I was expecting like a GOD OF WAR type weapon or something.

Who cares? His genetic perfection plan lasted for about five pages, and, as you said, the Earth was never in any real danger. Contrast that to the first Annihilation where the universe was very much ****ed.

And Dr. Doom had Beyonder's power for what, an issue at most of SECRET WARS, but everyone drools over that.

The point is that the Earth was in real danger if Ultron was not stopped, just as the Annihilation Wave would have swarmed Earth eventually had Annihilus not been defeated.

You can only threaten the universe in the exact same way so many times before it becomes mundane, like what DC has done to CRISIS. DnA took a more subtle approach to conquest after the bug swarms of the first go and while I never said it was better than ANNIHILATION or without flaw I did enjoy it, and moreso than a lot of the "terran" Marvel events.

It was a mistake for DnA to ever introduce Earth into the equation, because as soon as you do that, you no there's no longer any plausibility to the villain's plans.

But by that logic, a lot of villains aren't plausible because you know they can never take over the Earth, or take over America, or kill the franchise title hero. It is part of the genre expectations.

It is like, Loki is plotting against Thor right now in THOR. But can Thor ever die? No. He will always be back. So is Loki now implausible? If you think so, then your issue is with genre conventions and not this particular element.

Seemed to me like there were plenty of other alien civilizations left at the end of Conquest. And even still, I'm not saying Ultron need to destroy half the universe to seem threatening, I just think his presence lacked any sort of weight.

So, in order for Great Ultron to have seemed more dangerous, DnA should have just lined up some extra races for the slaughter, even if they were already reeling from the Annihilation Wave.

Admittedly, any space event that magically avoids the Shi'ar seems hollow as they are the most overused aliens in Marvel thanks to X-Men and if Ultron could have wiped half of them out, that'd have been cool. Vulcan would make an easy figure for a third installment. Not exactly for a main villain, but someone to show up. Annoying or not, they are a space power, moreso than the Spaceknights have been for ages.

I thought it had weight, just was more subtle. I appreciated the attempt at something different rather than just try to copy Giffen panel for panel, even if it didn't always bare fruit, but I guess we're always going to disagree on that.

 

[Blader5489]

Unlikeable or not, Moondragon's death counts, as does Prax.

Being unlikeable does matter. That's what distinguishes a meaningful death from cannon fodder. Annihilation had plenty of the former while Conquest had plenty of the latter. DnA gave us no reason to care about Moondragon, Prax, or Gabe's deaths other than being pissed off at Gabe being wasted as a character. Like I said in my post, the only meaningful death in Conquest was Ko-Rel's, but Ultron had no involvement in that.

I do agree that a fleet of Sentry robots wasn't what I expected to be underneath Ravenous' seat. I was expecting like a GOD OF WAR type weapon or something.

My point was more that Ronan's subplot amounted to absolutely nothing. In the first Annihilation, Ronan seeks revenge against the Kree rulers and we get to see the conclusion to that story. In Conquest, there was no conclusion for Ronan's story and no reason to be following that subplot at all.

The point is that the Earth was in real danger if Ultron was not stopped, just as the Annihilation Wave would have swarmed Earth eventually had Annihilus not been defeated.

No it wasn't, because naturally we know it would never reach Earth. That's why introducing Earth into the plot instantly kills the momentum of the story. Yes, the Annihilation Wave posed a threat to the Earth, but that was only because Annihlus threatened all life in the universe and that kind of plan would, obviously at some point, reach Earth.

But by that logic, a lot of villains aren't plausible because you know they can never take over the Earth, or take over America, or kill the franchise title hero. It is part of the genre expectations.

It is like, Loki is plotting against Thor right now in THOR. But can Thor ever die? No. He will always be back. So is Loki now implausible? If you think so, then your issue is with genre conventions and not this particular element.

But it's different for Marvel's cosmic landscape because of its lower popularity. Because of that, anything can happen; people who die can stay dead. So, unlike the mainstream characters of the MU, there is a great risk of permanent death and destruction in the cosmic books.

So, in order for Great Ultron to have seemed more dangerous, DnA should have just lined up some extra races for the slaughter, even if they were already reeling from the Annihilation Wave.

No, what I'm saying is the event lacked that epic feeling. DnA rarely, if ever, showed why the Phalanx conquering the Kree was so bad. It would be like if Giffen built up the Annihilation Wave as a threat to the universe but never showed them destroying anything.

Conquest could have probably avoided this (at least to some degree) by at least showing some huge battle between Ronan's sentries and Ultron's techno-organic army, or something like that. The sad thing is that DnA introduced a lot of elements throughout the story that could have delivered an epic finale, but they all fell flat in the end.

I thought it had weight, just was more subtle. I appreciated the attempt at something different rather than just try to copy Giffen panel for panel, even if it didn't always bare fruit, but I guess we're always going to disagree on that.

I'm not going to appreciate something that's different just for the sake of being different. Conquest tried to be different from Giffen's work and ultimately fell flat on its face. It was all build up to a finale that did not pay off. Characters were constantly being jammed into the story and by the end, only a few of them had any semblance of closure. It was just bad storytelling.

 

[Dread]

Being unlikeable does matter. That's what distinguishes a meaningful death from cannon fodder. Annihilation had plenty of the former while Conquest had plenty of the latter. DnA gave us no reason to care about Moondragon, Prax, or Gabe's deaths other than being pissed off at Gabe being wasted as a character. Like I said in my post, the only meaningful death in Conquest was Ko-Rel's, but Ultron had no involvement in that.

To each their own. I kind of felt bad for Super-Skrull after Prax got blown up. Moondragon's murder was rather sudden and admittedly may not have been handled well since all Phyla did was whine rather than get determined...much like a male character may have gotten if his lover had died. There, I said it.

My point was more that Ronan's subplot amounted to absolutely nothing. In the first Annihilation, Ronan seeks revenge against the Kree rulers and we get to see the conclusion to that story. In Conquest, there was no conclusion for Ronan's story and no reason to be following that subplot at all.

Yeah, he wasn't handled well. I actually was surprised he did so little.

No it wasn't, because naturally we know it would never reach Earth. That's why introducing Earth into the plot instantly kills the momentum of the story. Yes, the Annihilation Wave posed a threat to the Earth, but that was only because Annihlus threatened all life in the universe and that kind of plan would, obviously at some point, reach Earth.

And Ultron also made plans to take over the entire universe, even stating so, just he was focusing his next wave on Earth, which made more sense to him than Annihilus since all of his major enemies come from Earth. It wasn't the same but for me it worked, and for you it didn't, and that is the impasse.

But it's different for Marvel's cosmic landscape because of its lower popularity. Because of that, anything can happen; people who die can stay dead. So, unlike the mainstream characters of the MU, there is a great risk of permanent death and destruction in the cosmic books.

That is true, although there are some cosmic types who can't really be killed, like Galactus or Silver Surfer.

No, what I'm saying is the event lacked that epic feeling. DnA rarely, if ever, showed why the Phalanx conquering the Kree was so bad. It would be like if Giffen built up the Annihilation Wave as a threat to the universe but never showed them destroying anything.

The problem was the different natures of the threats. The Annihilation Wave were basically a swarm of massive N-Zone bugs, so of course it will be more destructive. The Phalanx are a virus that infects you invisibly and transforms you, so it seems less violent and thus not as dynamic, I get.

That is why most supervillains use energy blasts than biological viruses, naturally.

Conquest could have probably avoided this (at least to some degree) by at least showing some huge battle between Ronan's sentries and Ultron's techno-organic army, or something like that. The sad thing is that DnA introduced a lot of elements throughout the story that could have delivered an epic finale, but they all fell flat in the end.

There was that battle between the Phalanx and Ravenous' bug hordes. And that planet they destroyed in QUASAR's mini. And the battle in which Blaastar was captured.

But obviously that was not enough for you. You wanted to watch pages of slaughter, and I won't say it wouldn't have helped, it probably would have. I'd have preferred Ronan busted out some larger hammer or a battlesuit than a fleet of Sentries that fell flat, personally (even if Ultron had every right to negate the threat when he sensed it).

I'm not going to appreciate something that's different just for the sake of being different. Conquest tried to be different from Giffen's work and ultimately fell flat on its face. It was all build up to a finale that did not pay off. Characters were constantly being jammed into the story and by the end, only a few of them had any semblance of closure. It was just bad storytelling.

And yet had DnA basically tried to imitate Giffen panel for panel, we'd all be saying how all they could do was rip him off. That said, it probably would have had better action that way.

Obviously this is a difference in taste. I admit it was flawed but I still enjoyed it. You obviously didn't and that's fine, too.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Just read Conquest #6. Ugh, and to think I was actually hyped up last issue. Talk about an anti-climax.

Ultron turns into a giant big robot only to miss his targets repeatedly and get taken down in a single shot.

Wraith spent the entire series doing nothing to an almost comical degree.

Ronan's brilliant plan to stop the Phalanx completely backfired making him look like a moron and an ******* in the process.

Quasar and Adam Warlock ended up as pretty piss poor protagonists. The latter was nothing more than a cipher for the majority of the series and the former managed to throw away a lot of the good will she had earned by spending the majority of the series as a whiny useless brat.

Why they ended up with such a majority of the focus when fans were practically foaming at the mouth for more Star Lord I will never understand. Sadly, the only real highlight for me was Nova knocking Ultron on his ass.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

This story needed more Kl'rt, Drax, and Nova

 

[Docker2.0]

Just read Conquest #6. Ugh, and to think I was actually hyped up last issue. Talk about an anti-climax.

Ultron turns into a giant big robot only to miss his targets repeatedly and get taken down in a single shot.

Wraith spent the entire series doing nothing to an almost comical degree.

Ronan's brilliant plan to stop the Phalanx completely backfired making him look like a moron and an ******* in the process.

Quasar and Adam Warlock ended up as pretty piss poor protagonists. The latter was nothing more than a cipher for the majority of the series and the former managed to throw away a lot of the good will she had earned by spending the majority of the series as a whiny useless brat.

Why they ended up with such a majority of the focus when fans were practically foaming at the mouth for more Star Lord I will never understand. Sadly, the only real highlight for me was Nova knocking Ultron on his ass.

Exactly! I think the story was ok but the ending was very meh. It could've been done better.

 

[Blader5489]

To each their own. I kind of felt bad for Super-Skrull after Prax got blown up. Moondragon's murder was rather sudden and admittedly may not have been handled well since all Phyla did was whine rather than get determined...much like a male character may have gotten if his lover had died. There, I said it.

I may have felt bad for Prax if it hadn't happened so suddenly and if anyone even actually gave a damn about it. Same with Gabe.

There was that battle between the Phalanx and Ravenous' bug hordes. And that planet they destroyed in QUASAR's mini. And the battle in which Blaastar was captured.

But obviously that was not enough for you. You wanted to watch pages of slaughter, and I won't say it wouldn't have helped, it probably would have. I'd have preferred Ronan busted out some larger hammer or a battlesuit than a fleet of Sentries that fell flat, personally (even if Ultron had every right to negate the threat when he sensed it).

I don't need to see "pages of slaughter", I just think an epic space battle should actually have some kind of epic space battle. They were really building up a huge fight between Ultron's techno-organic army and Ronan's sentries; I don't know why they just decided to scrap both of those subplots for giant robot Ultron.

And like I said earlier, another problem was that DnA continued to introduce new characters into the main story. The whole of the minis is to establish the characters so that you can just unleash them in the bigger story; about half the cast amounted to meaningless cameos and had little, if anything, to do with the main Conquest story.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In the verge of finishing Annihilation and just wondering, is Conquest worth it?

Also, is Annihilation:Conquest Vol.1 and Nova:Annihilation Conquest Vol.1 the same book or 2 different one's?