The Dark Knight Rises Anyone else not like the 8 year exile plot?

[8wid]

I was expecting Batman to have continued fighting crime in Gotham until while also outrunning the police and being tracked. This would have given him the full means to have gotten hold of a number of new toys to avoid detection and to track down Bane. The whole exile was only done in order to make Batman weak and unable to fight when he returned. Bane breaking his back in general would have been enough to pull this off. Bruce getting hold of animatronic suit in Knightfall could have done the same here too.

 

[RakuMon]

I think that's fundamentally my problem with the eight year absence. While I agree with Nolan that the lie had to be effective in order for TDK's ending to have weight, the eight year absence undermines the tragedy of TDK's ending. Any chance of happiness, any chance of Batman someday stopping his crusade seemed like an impossibility. At the end of TDK it seemed like he was destined to be Batman forever and to top it all off he had to do it as a fugitive and without Gordon's help.

The ending of TDK left Batman in a really interesting place and I really would have liked to seen Batman trying to cope with being Batman and on the run simultaneously. The Dent Act could have still been present causing Batman to gradually become more and more obsolete. Batman throws himself into his work, ignoring his responsibilities as Bruce Wayne. After he is broken by Bane, Bruce learns that he has let go of his pain and move on from Rachel's death, from the events of TDK and from being Batman. If he had remained Batman, his arc would be clearer with a more direct continuation of his character arc from the previous film.

As much as I loved TDKR (and I really loved it a lot), I have to agree that the exile plot is my least favorite aspect. Mainly because the drama of Batman coming out of retirement is wasted because as soon as he un-retires, he goes away for five months after only being back for a few days.

I would have preferred if they shown that Bruce was "lost inside this monster" (like Alfred says in BB) and continued to be Batman despite being viewed negatively by the city.

Maybe, Batman was now operating under the radar (i.e., his car chases weren't being broadcast on the news). This would also be a way for Blake and others to still believe in the Batman since for eight years no other murders were attributed to Batman.

In the time between films, Batman was still tracking down petty crooks and drug dealers instead of the mob. And maybe he was going overboard, breaking their legs, beating crooks to within an inch of their lives... Almost as if Batman was on a death wish. That would have made Alfred's fear of Bruce dying more powerful as well. I don't mind Bruce becoming a recluse but I would have preferred if Bruce became reclusive as a result of being batman 24 hours a day.

Then, worn out and exhausted, him going up against Bane and underestimating him leads to his (Knight)fall. Shift the scene between the kid and Blake (about whether Batman will come back) to after Bruce's back is broken.

I think the movie could have largely been the same, but the addition of the idea that Bruce is completely consumed with being Batman would have added even more weight to the film.

 

[The Guard]

That could work. It could also have been an interesting angle to play with the idea that he became so much into being Batman that he somewhat neglected his duties as Bruce Wayne and was perceived as a hermit...which they did anyway.

 

[CoolCadaver49]

I didn't like the 8 year exile plot, but I'm okay with 8 years passing in-between films. Mostly because I'd have liked to imagine Nolan's Batman taking on other classic foes during the break between films. Leaving such a large gap let's you imagination run wild, which is fun for the audience (or at least, people like me). And I agree that Batman's disappearance from Gotham could have worked better as the time Bruce spent in the pit. I think it could be changed to fit that way, and not tamper with the themes much at all.

 

[Batman, Inc.]

I didn't like it.

Batman skips town for nearly a decade [BLACKOUT]only to end up faking his death at the end of the film so he can abandon Gotham permanently to live it up with Selina Kyle in Europe[/BLACKOUT]. Yeeeeah...that's certainly not MY Batman. Other flaws aside, that is my single biggest problem with this film. The entire premise and plot is just way out of character to me.

 

[Red Mask]

O.K, i get that he had to go into hiding after the Harvey Dent incident..but why 8 years?

No, it doesn't bother me. He lost Rachel, his childhood love, and was grieving. It took him until he was 30 years old to become Batman. Obviously Bruce's body couldn't give much more.

I'd say this film kept its Batman character consistent from the start.

 

[Batman, Inc.]

No, it doesn't bother me. He lost Rachel, his childhood love, and was grieving.

And people said that Peter Parker in S-M3 was emo. I'm sorry but that is NOT Batman in any way, shape or form to me. He quits for almost a decade because Rachel was killed?! The real Batman would not do that. He didn't quit after Jason was killed or Barbara was paralyzed. If anything he became more determined in his mission.

Also there is the awful idea that "anybody can be Batman"...ugh.


I would have to quote Denny O'Neil(who was talking about current Batman comics a couple of years ago) on this one regarding Rises: "I'm not prepared to say its bad but its definitely moved beyond my sensibilities."

 

[Golgo-13]

It just saddens me that Nolans Batman has/will never face off against foes like The Riddler, The Penguin, Killer Croc, The Ventriliquist, etc. Shame really. Which is why i would have liked it if he was at least partially active inbetween movies.

 

[serendipity]

It just saddens me that Nolans Batman has/will never face off against foes like The Riddler, The Penguin, Killer Croc, The Ventriliquist, etc. Shame really. Which is why i would have liked it if he was at least partially active inbetween movies.

I feel that the existence of the Batcave alone signifies that Bruce was running around in his tights for a while longer after The Dark Knight. Guess there were just no "confirmed" sightings of the Batman. Probably because Gordon had his ways of ensuring the police would never be on Batman's tail.

 

[Red Mask]

And people said that Peter Parker in S-M3 was emo. I'm sorry but that is NOT Batman in any way, shape or form to me. He quits for almost a decade because Rachel was killed?! The real Batman would not do that. He didn't quit after Jason was killed or Barbara was paralyzed. If anything he became more determined in his mission.

Also there is the awful idea that "anybody can be Batman"...ugh.


I would have to quote Denny O'Neil(who was talking about current Batman comics a couple of years ago) on this one regarding Rises: "I'm not prepared to say its bad but its definitely moved beyond my sensibilities."

Yeah. Whatever. This is Nolan's Batman.

 

[Batman, Inc.]

Yeah. Whatever. This is Nolan's Batman.

Insightful response.

I don't want Nolan's Batman. I want Batman. I am getting sick and tired as a Batfan of how every director who comes on board has to act like hes constructing his own world only based on the comics.

What is the point of making it a Batman film if your characterization moves so far away from who the character is? Now, if you don't CARE about a faithful adaptation and are only interested in a good movie with the Batman name slapped on it well that is your perogative. Different strokes for different folks.

I am a much bigger fan of the character from the comics than of the Nolan Batman. I can't remember who it was but back when Begins came out one of the former Batman comic book writers made the comment that it was a good movie about a compelling character who was very similar to Batman but it was not Batman. Now, at the time, I didn't see what he was saying as much. But now that we have gotten to the third film I can completely see what hes saying. Nolan's sensibilities regarding this character just do not sit well with me.

 

[JaD]

Yeah. Whatever. This is Nolan's Batman.

This is the exact disclaimer I put in my review for this movie when I was discussing how I hated the 8 year exile plot.

 

[Batman, Inc.]

This is the exact disclaimer I put in my review for this movie when I was discussing how I hated the 8 year exile plot.

You know, I am really hoping that most of these Ultra Nolanites take a hike during the next year or two now that their God/Messiah is clearly done with the franchise. I loved the first two films Nolan gave us but TDKR to me was a misstep and I've grown to have an intense dislike for some of these kinda 'fans'. I hate to sound like I'm on that, "they're not REAL Batfans" trip but many of them clearly hold Nolan's re-interpretation of the character above all else and don't have much regard for the source material.

 

[JackWhite]

I got the impression that if Bruce could have had his outlet as Batman, Rachel's death wouldn't have been that much of a problem. Sure, he missed her, and hated that she was a causality in his war on crime, but when Bruce comes back in the cave after his first night out as Batman, dude looked reinvigorated as hell. He had that classic "tunnel vision" focus that Batman has always had in the comics.

 

[I Am The Knight]

And people said that Peter Parker in S-M3 was emo. I'm sorry but that is NOT Batman in any way, shape or form to me. He quits for almost a decade because Rachel was killed?! The real Batman would not do that. He didn't quit after Jason was killed or Barbara was paralyzed. If anything he became more determined in his mission.

Also there is the awful idea that "anybody can be Batman"...ugh.


I would have to quote Denny O'Neil(who was talking about current Batman comics a couple of years ago) on this one regarding Rises: "I'm not prepared to say its bad but its definitely moved beyond my sensibilities."

Quoted for the mother effin' truth. If this is Nolan's Batman, I don't like it as much as I thought ...

 

[Victarion]

Nolan's Batman was looking to hang it up in TDK before Joker showed up. This is what Bruce thought he wanted.

 

[JackWhite]

Nolan's Batman was looking to hang it up in TDK before Joker showed up. This is what Bruce thought he wanted.

Because of Dent's reputation and promise of being a legitimate face for Gotham.

 

[I Am The Knight]

And because he wanted to be with Rachel Dawwwwes.

 

[Victarion]

Because of Dent's reputation and promise of being a legitimate face for Gotham.

That promise was continued in the Harvey Dent Act. Plus Rachel was the last thing he had left from his old life, so it makes more sense that he'd want to be with her.

 

[Red Mask]

Insightful response.

I don't want Nolan's Batman. I want Batman. I am getting sick and tired as a Batfan of how every director who comes on board has to act like hes constructing his own world only based on the comics.

What is the point of making it a Batman film if your characterization moves so far away from who the character is? Now, if you don't CARE about a faithful adaptation and are only interested in a good movie with the Batman name slapped on it well that is your perogative. Different strokes for different folks.

I am a much bigger fan of the character from the comics than of the Nolan Batman. I can't remember who it was but back when Begins came out one of the former Batman comic book writers made the comment that it was a good movie about a compelling character who was very similar to Batman but it was not Batman. Now, at the time, I didn't see what he was saying as much. But now that we have gotten to the third film I can completely see what hes saying. Nolan's sensibilities regarding this character just do not sit well with me.

I thought the point of this film was to have a realistic take on Batman. That means it wasn't how Batman could be portrayed more realistically, but how reality could wear the Batman lore. That means Bruce Wayne is just a mortal man. There are no superfreaks like Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy. The Bat gadgets aren't super-stylized to be bat-like. There is no Lazarus Pit, just a prison pit. The people of Gotham aren't one-dimensional window dressing in the World of Batman. That's what we got since the beginning.

Also, I remember reading fans cheering Nolan's adaption as the truest adaption so far. Where did fans suddenly go 180 degrees? I knew this wasn't the Batman I loved. When did they?

 

[Red Mask]

That promise was continued in the Harvey Dent Act. Plus Rachel was the last thing he had left from his old life, so it makes more sense that he'd want to be with her.

Exactly. Rachel was a part of his lost innocence, along with his dead parents. His becoming Batman was more about trying to cope with that senseless tragedy. The death of Rachel, the fact that he couldn't save her despite being Batman, just drove him further into a recluse. Even in this third film we hear that childish phrase 'why do fall, Master Bruce? So we can get up again'. Alfred hoped Bruce would move on and get a real life, but he never did until he realized he couldn't be Batman anymore.

 

[Spuzz]

In response to topic question:

No.

 

[RasAlGhul41]

This is my first post, and I will preface it by saying how much I have enjoyed reading your comments. Batman means a great many things to different people, and my response is personal in nature. It has led me to view Bruce and his injuries in a different light.

A year ago, my parents died within a month of the other. At this point in my life, I was in the best shape of my career, completing several High Intensity Workout programs with astounding success. Their death hit me like Rachel did Bruce. I was debilitated within weeks, racked with grief and depair. I lost the will to workout much less live.

I had panic attacks, phantom pains in my abdomen (my mom died of stomach cancer and dad cancer to), and began to fear death. I am a single dad and have no help whatsoever from the mother of my son. I feared I would die and leave him alone. He was all I had left to fight for.

Two months later I injured my shoulder lifting a box of books at work. Since that day, I have had one surgery, which failed, and have little use of my arm. I could barely get out of bed, and limped around in pain. This past week they fired me (legally) and the Doctor said I was permanently disabled.

Was I injured? Of course, but my mental fatigue and scarring debilitated me further. Grief and stress are just as deadly as any physical injury. Now, given the bad news, I am fighting back, for the sake of my son, who in this story is akin to Gotham. I would die to protect or safeguard his future. I live only for him now, so that his life is good. He is my greatest achievment.

My arm is still damaged beyond repair, but I am trying and seeing success in fixing the rest of my body. Once I was able to break the mental chains I had wrapped myself in, then I was able to overcome the phantom pains and fears I had conjured for myself.

I may never be 100%, and may never use the arm again, but I will do my best, and that belief allows me to ignore the pain I feel on daily basis; mind over body.

I think when Bruce learned the truth about Rachel, he was released from that metaphysical prison he had constructed, and while he was still in immense pain, he overcame it.

Bane broke him, but in that despair he saw what was important; Gotham and the image of Batman he had intended; anyone could be Batman. Anyone could be a hero.

Like an aging sports star fending off the younger rival, he had one last hurrah in him before the end. Overcoming the pain, he defeated not just Bane, but his past grief, and in the process made the Batman immortal, in ways that Ras Al Ghul had hinted at; legend.

Well, that is my two cents worth on the subject. I look forward to interacting further with all of you.

 

[HighFivingMF]

He quits for almost a decade because Rachel was killed?!

He quit because the city was cleaned up and his mission was accomplished. He became a shut-in because Rachel was killed. Notice how quick he was to get back into Batmanning once the opportunity showed itself.

 

[darknight7]

Welcome to the Hype RasAlGhul41 - sorry for your loss, you make good points and relate your life experiences quite well with the film themes. It's great to be able to relate to a hero because it helps with personal struggle and life challenges. So I am happy that you are still trucking along and I hope you continue to. Keep it up.

But on the topic of the movie and the 8 year gap I am afraid I do have to agree with the majority of the fans in here. I personally hate the "It's Nolan's story" excuse and dislike the fact that people worship him and he can do no wrong.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Begins, TDK, Prestige, Memento and Inception (Inception is one of my all time original story/favourite movies of all time.

But this movie was just too far south. It was rushed, cliche and not Nolan's best. People are eating it up and I don't know why. I understand it's Nolan's movie, but Batman is a 70 year old character and to me it is a Batman movie before it is a Nolan movie.

--dk7