The Dark Knight Rises Anyone else not like the 8 year exile plot?

I just don't see the logic of the argument that the exile is a consequence of the decision to pin Harvey Dent's death on Batman. I interpreted the decision as Batman taking the heat for those murders but continuing his mission. Sure, he'd be a wanted man, but his reputation amongst the criminals would be restored and he would be seen as a legitimate threat once more.

As for Batman no longer being needed due to the Dent Act; I understood the Act helped clean up organised crime in Gotham.
Did I miss the part in 'Batman Begins' where Bruce vowed only to fight organised crime?
 
If the word 'exile' came from the film's official synopsis, then the word was used in the wrong context, because 'exile' generally means that one is banished or otherwise removed from a particular physical location (as is demonstrated later on in the movie through Dr. Crane's mock trials of certain Gotham citizenry). Because Bruce never physically left Gotham, he was, technically, never in exile; he merely withdrew himself from society and became a recluse.

Well, if you want to get technical, Wayne Manor is located outside the city limits of Gotham so yes, Batman became an exile and disappeared for 8 years.
 
Yeah except Bruce was 50 something in DKR and went after old foes. I would have preferred that they did not borrow from DKR and instead stuck with No Man's Land and Knightfall.

Bruce is about 40, which is really about 60 in batman years due to all the beatings his body has taken so age is not as issue.

Old foes? This movie was pretty much the final conclusion to his first foe.

I think it's very fitting that Begins was somewhat Nolan's Year One, TDK was his TLH and TDKR is his The Dark Knigt Returns. Very fitting and full circle imo.
 
I just don't see the logic of the argument that the exile is a consequence of the decision to pin Harvey Dent's death on Batman. I interpreted the decision as Batman taking the heat for those murders but continuing his mission. Sure, he'd be a wanted man, but his reputation amongst the criminals would be restored and he would be seen as a legitimate threat once more.

As for Batman no longer being needed due to the Dent Act; I understood the Act helped clean up organised crime in Gotham.
Did I miss the part in 'Batman Begins' where Bruce vowed only to fight organised crime?

I imagine it would have been a lot harder being Batman when he's wanted by the cops. That means he would have had to fight crime AND try to avoid law enforcement who are actively patrolling the streets to find him.
 
I had no problem with the 8 year exile ONLY because Batman specifically states (and Gordon as well) that the "Harvey Dent lie" WORKED and organized crime in Gotham was stomped out... so in Nolan's world, Batman and Gordon, by lying to Gotham, actually won the war... so Batman wasn't needed. If you look at it that way --- Batman/Gordon won, Gotham was saved, no more crime --- then the Batman exile/disappearance makes sense.
 
Bruce is about 40, which is really about 60 in batman years due to all the beatings his body has taken so age is not as issue.

Old foes? This movie was pretty much the final conclusion to his first foe.

I think it's very fitting that Begins was somewhat Nolan's Year One, TDK was his TLH and TDKR is his The Dark Knigt Returns. Very fitting and full circle imo.

No, he was in the middle of college by the time he disappeared in Begins and was gone 7 years then became Batman for 6 months. During Rises, we can assume he is under the age of 40. In DKR, he is 55. Huge difference. They only borrowed the idea of him coming out of retirement. That is all. 'Rises' borrows more from Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, Knightfall, and No Man's Land.
 
Did I miss the part in 'Batman Begins' where Bruce vowed only to fight organised crime?

I think, in a realistic world, a person like Batman would most likely only focus on organized crime and major crime syndicates... simply running around the city every night JUST HOPING to run into a purse snatching or a robbery or a petty theft, as a masked vigilante, would be pretty difficult and also unlikely.

So Batman just focusing on organized crime makes sense. Plus, if you cut the head of the snake, the body dies.... kill organized crime and a lot of the petty stuff gets stomped out...
 
I imagine it would have been a lot harder being Batman when he's wanted by the cops. That means he would have had to fight crime AND try to avoid law enforcement who are actively patrolling the streets to find him.

He managed that in "Begins", and was technically still wanted by the police in "TDK" except for Gordon's unit.

I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense for the character of Bruce to give up Batman. It was established in "Begins" that Batman was the person and Bruce was the disguise.
 
No, he was in the middle of college by the time he disappeared in Begins and was gone 7 years then became Batman for 6 months. During Rises, we can assume he is under the age of 40. In DKR, he is 55. Huge difference. They only borrowed the idea of him coming out of retirement. That is all. 'Rises' borrows more from Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, Knightfall, and No Man's Land.

Do you get how the specific age is irrelevant? 40-50-100 his body could only really take one more final battle he was nearing his end.

The grand scheme of a long retired superhero coming back to vanquish new and old foes is a shared theme. None of Nolan's films are 1:1 adaptations they just borrow here and there.

That shared scheme between the two worked imo.
 
No, he was in the middle of college by the time he disappeared in Begins and was gone 7 years then became Batman for 6 months. During Rises, we can assume he is under the age of 40. In DKR, he is 55. Huge difference. They only borrowed the idea of him coming out of retirement. That is all. 'Rises' borrows more from Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, Knightfall, and No Man's Land.


Weren't we celebrating his 30th birthday at the end of BB? So he's 38 and a half at least. While technically under 40 it's not by much.
 
I would have liked it better if during those 8 years they would have mentioned bats facing off against Penguin and Riddler,etc...it saddens me that Nolans Batman has only faced off against Crane, Ra's, Joker, Bane and Catwoman...:csad:

8 years seems way too long of a hiatus...


I think most fans, myself included, would have seen that as a big disservice to those characters.
 
I think, in a realistic world, a person like Batman would most likely only focus on organized crime and major crime syndicates... simply running around the city every night JUST HOPING to run into a purse snatching or a robbery or a petty theft, as a masked vigilante, would be pretty difficult and also unlikely.

So Batman just focusing on organized crime makes sense. Plus, if you cut the head of the snake, the body dies.... kill organized crime and a lot of the petty stuff gets stomped out...

Meh, I'm really not a big fan of that. So Batman doesn't care about the people in the streets randomly being killed each night? It wasn't an organized crime boss that murdered his parents.

If anything, it really sort of angers me and goes against what Batman is really about. To stop an armed mugger and prevent a child from being put through the same pain as what he experienced- Batman would prowl the streets till the day he dies if need be.
 
Meh, I'm really not a big fan of that. So Batman doesn't care about the people in the streets randomly being killed each night? It wasn't an organized crime boss that murdered his parents.

If anything, it really sort of angers me and goes against what Batman is really about. To stop an armed mugger and prevent a child from being put through the same pain as what he experienced- Batman would prowl the streets till the day he dies if need be.

Come on remember begins? Remember what rachel told bruce? It was the corrupt system that created joe chill and until that system was destroyed there would be joe chill's born everyday. It was the mob bosses flooding the streets with guns and drugs. When they went away you see a safe gotham.

Do you go after the individual cancer cells or the entire disease?
 
Do you get how the specific age is irrelevant? 40-50-100 his body could only really take one more final battle he was nearing his end.

The grand scheme of a long retired superhero coming back to vanquish new and old foes is a shared theme. None of Nolan's films are 1:1 adaptations they just borrow here and there.

That shared scheme between the two worked imo.

Dude, DKR is a dystopian future. The only thing they borrowed was him coming out of retirement and being chased by the police. An argument can be made that the whole police hunt thing is continued from TDK. Don't give me crap that he 'feels' 40 when in DKR, Batman is 55 and being hunted by the police and US Govt. Your posts make it sound like Rises is a direct correlation of DKR when in fact more material is taken from Knightfall and NML than anything else.

Its classic filmmaking to borrow bits and pieces of source material and creating your own recipe of a story.
 
Psychologically, ALP is correct. Batman would patrol the streets all night. He feels the need to protect. We see it in the comics, the cartoons, and even the Burton films. Nolan decided not to go in that route, and that's fine, but it doesn't make ALP incorrect.
 
Come on remember begins? Remember what rachel told bruce? It was the corrupt system that created joe chill and until that system was destroyed there would be joe chill's born everyday. It was the mob bosses flooding the streets with guns and drugs. When they went away you see a safe gotham.

Do you go after the individual cancer cells or the entire disease?

Oh I understand both sides really, and I thought his exile worked well here... but the point many are making is just that during those 8 years he could have been prowling the streets. They already took out the organized crime but you can bet during those 8 years there were still hoods on the street killing people:o

And taking out the mob bosses does not eliminate the guns at all.
 
Dude, DKR is a dystopian future. The only thing they borrowed was him coming out of retirement and being chased by the police. An argument can be made that the whole police hunt thing is continued from TDK. Don't give me crap that he 'feels' 40 when in DKR, Batman is 55 and being hunted by the police and US Govt. Your posts make it sound like Rises is a direct correlation of DKR when in fact more material is taken from Knightfall and NML than anything else.

Its classic filmmaking to borrow bits and pieces of source material and creating your own recipe of a story.

I said none of that. I said they share one key component which they do and i enjoyed that component in both films.

I referred to no other specific correlations. I'm not even gonna bother to acknowledge the age issue again because my last post clearly dealt with it.




Oh I understand both sides really, and I thought his exile worked well here... but the point many are making is just that during those 8 years he could have been prowling the streets. They already took out the organized crime but you can bet during those 8 years there were still hoods on the street killing people:o

And taking out the mob bosses does not eliminate the guns at all.


Well the post Dent Act gotham was apparently ridiculously safe. Didn't blake make mention of how cops would be rescuing cats or some other insignificant thing now due to crime being so low?
 
Meh, I'm really not a big fan of that. So Batman doesn't care about the people in the streets randomly being killed each night? It wasn't an organized crime boss that murdered his parents.

If anything, it really sort of angers me and goes against what Batman is really about. To stop an armed mugger and prevent a child from being put through the same pain as what he experienced- Batman would prowl the streets till the day he dies if need be.

It would've been so much better if Bruce was still actively keeping tabs on Gotham via the Batcomputer. Like Oracle.
Helping Gordon fight crime behind the scenes. as an unspoken and secretive helper.

My response on the first page is pretty much in agreement with you guys.
 
It's the length of time that gets me. 3 years would have been just as effective. 8 years is pushing it.

And yes the knee cartilage thing was dumb. The mentioned some other injuries if i remember correctly, Kidney issues, etc. Did Bane allow him to where the knee band when he took him to the prison? I doubt it. Then how did his knee suddenly become better to climb outta there and kick ass...?!
That doesn't age him enough though. IMO it was important for Nolan to show that this wasn't the same Batman as BB even though he's haunted by the same things. We know that stuff but the general public might need it shown to them more.

Some stuff I don't mind letting slide if I like the outcome. One of my favorite movies is Oldboy. You can pick that movie apart too but why... just to find false with it. I guess I'm getting old... I look to enjoy things now.
 
Weren't we celebrating his 30th birthday at the end of BB? So he's 38 and a half at least. While technically under 40 it's not by much.

He was 8 at the beginning of Batman Begins. He was 22 when Joe Chill was released from prison (it was mentioned as being 14 years later during the hearing). He was gone for 7 years, and you see it's his 30th birthday when Wayne Manor is burned down.

I believe TDK mentions that it's a year later, which makes him 31. So eight years later for TDKR would put him at about 39.
 
I said none of that. I said they share one key component which they do and i enjoyed that component in both films.

I referred to no other specific correlations. I'm not even gonna bother to acknowledge the age issue again because my last post clearly dealt with it.

Keep thinking 'Rises' is 'The Dark Knight Returns' one of the best Batman stories ever told when all they did was borrow one or two things. That's my point to you that you clearly don't understand. Done.
 
About the knee and cartilage - ever see the film Beyond The Mat? Theres a scene with Terry Funk when hes talking to a doctor while theyre looking at his knee xrays. The doctor explains to Funk that he doesnt understand how Funk is still mobile and active, much less wrestling since hes well on in years and his knees are completely destroyed. He tells Funk that he should be in crippling pain, disabling agony, and unable to function daily - not jumping around wrestling rings at 50.

I liked the leg injury idea. It was also one of the things I liked about the Daredevil film, when Matt gets up and we hear his knees creak. I want my heroes to sacrifice and its something as simple as that that shows the toll that what they do is taking on their bodies.

I actually think the "correcting" leg brace weakens the importance of Bruce overcoming his injury. Its a testament to his spirit.
 
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I think most fans, myself included, would have seen that as a big disservice to those characters.

I hear you on that one, it just saddens me that Bruce Wayne/Batman in Nolan-verse never encounters these villains. At least if the ending hadn't suggested that he was completely out of the game, that he would come across them later on, but seeing as how he's passed the mantle to someone else.....
 
Isn't this how it was in The Dark Knight Returns?

Nine years I believe.

My main gripe is this...

In Batman Begins, Ra's wants to purge Gotham because it is rotting. All throughout the film this is illustrated through corrupt cops, Carmine Falcone & organized crime, horrible living conditions in the narrows. So his motivation makes sense, to purge a city that is dirty.

Nolan has stated that for Batman's sacrifice to be worth something, for his sacrifice to have impact, there's has to be a substantial change in Gotham's status. In the film it's even said that it is now "peace time."

Now, if conditions in Gotham have gotten better and the Batman isn't even required, why does Gotham have to be purged? Because the cause of peace was built on a lie? Purge a city that is already clean? Or is this daddy's little girl just wanting revenge? That doesn't sound like the function of the League of Shadows.

Purging the city because it was dirty. It was dirty because this "peace" was built up only on a lie.
 
It just wasn't handled well, and felt forced, and ultimately doesn't really matter, because inside 15 minutes he's right back at it with little to no issue in facing becoming his alter ego again.

It's like they wanted to make THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS in a sense, but didn't bother to include much of what made that story so great.
 

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