The Dark Knight Are We Judging This Film Too Soon?

[Comicfan]

Are we judging this film too soon??? Um, yeah! Kirsten Dunst was once asked who was worse, the critics or the comic fans. She said the comic fans were a lot worse, because at least the critics waited to SEE the movie before they passed judgement. So, yes, I think people are judging this film way too soon.

And fans decide moth before the opening if they are gonna hate the movie or not, and they focus on what they hate, so their mind doesn´t change once they see the movie

 

[Mr. Socko]

I personally am only judging what I've seen.

Some I like, some I don't.

 

[MacLeod]

I think I understand a little of what you're saying.

Nolan has alienated plenty of fans with his "re-imaging" of Batman. Despite having a few nods here and there to the comics and being a quality movie, Nolan's character isn't the Batman fans were hoping they would finally get after a 10+ year hiatus from the big screen. Especially after witnessing and enjoying other Batman works (BTAS, etc., etc.) during the hiatus from the silver screen.

Perhaps the biggest influence on the fans has been the great treatment another big name comicbook character got, Spider-man. No it didn't please everyone, but it did more than enough right. Spider-man was a true comicbook movie. Fans probably thought: "this is it, this is the Batman we've been waiting for. They're going to do (either) the comicbook or BTAS. They did Spider-man like the comicbook and it worked. We finally going to see Batman the way he should be." The Spider-man movies, like the Donner films, have raised expectations from comicbook fans big time. Imagine the disappointment when Nolan's Batman turned out to be neither--and TDK looks to continue the trend.

I'm not a hardcore Batman fan, but I am a huge fan of the character, especially BTAS. I have fans that are hardcore Batman fans, whom I thought would love Nolan's film since he has used some material from the comics--moreso than Burton I believe. They were even more critical and dissappointed than me.

Once again, this debate will rage forever....fans just wanted and expected the Batman we have all come to enjoy, not another crazy interpretation.

For the record, I love Burton's films, but Nolan's films are superior from a technical aspect IMO. Burton's films however deliver an artistic vision befitting the Dark Knight, and continued (though more subdued) in BTAS. Overdone at times? For sure...but it worked superbly and fit Batman like a glove.

Obviously one can take the stance that Nolan wanted to create a movie where the constant question among comicbook fanboys is finally answered: "could Batman really exist in the real world?" Problem is, it's one thing to wonder, it's another thing to actually see it...Nolan's "vision" sends me running back to Batman's fantasy world.

Also, I'm sure many will no doubt rationalize Batman's riot armor as evolution and believe that a fabric costume will be fully realized by the third film. I await that day.

That was one of the most well written explanations regarding how I feel about Nolan and the direction of the films. Seeing Begins and I'm sure TDK will only make me want more Burton films and BTAS cartoons. They are closer to Batman for me maybe not in story line but in character, especially the look.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

You are so on my enemies list. It's actually Nixon's enemies list, just with a few added names
*scribbles on list*
Done.
What was wrong with Knightfall?

The same thing that was wrong with the death of Superman or pretty much anything else in comics in those days. I was collecting then, man. I remember the meltdown. Comic publishers went crazy trying to make their books more collectible, more valuable, but they saturated the market and they went overboard with the marketing schemes (and that's what Knightfall was, just a marketing scheme). I quit because I didn't want to read about Jean-Paul Valley as Batman. Really I'm a bronze-age man anyway; it's all about the 70's Batman.

 

[brobdingnag]

The same thing that was wrong with the death of Superman or pretty much anything else in comics in those days. I was collecting then, man. I remember the meltdown. Comic publishers went crazy trying to make their books more collectible, more valuable, but they saturated the market and they went overboard with the marketing schemes (and that's what Knightfall was, just a marketing scheme). I quit because I didn't want to read about Jean-Paul Valley as Batman. Really I'm a bronze-age man anyway; it's all about the 70's Batman.

Yeah, I dumped all major publishers like DC and Marvel, as well as superhero titles in the early 90's and switched over to only the dark horse stuff and stuff like HATE and Eightball. Really all the good comic book stories had been told by the late 80's.

 

[MacLeod]

I personally am only judging what I've seen.

Some I like, some I don't.

Me too which is why I think I'm going to hate this movie. I've seen the picture of the suit, a picture of the "Pod", a picture of the Joker, and a picture of the toy which represents the suit. All are horrible for me. It's my opinion but I really can't stand how any of these things look at all.

 

[stonecold]

How can someone 'hate' a batman film called the dark knight, with an amazing cast and quality of director, with serious backing, $$$, serious commitment to the heavyweight , strongest graphic novels and most cinematic , darkest aspects of the character, which includes the first hardcore attempt to portray the Joker, a serious duel twoface.. with an incredible cast. wtf..

maybe dont overstate nolans realism just in light of burtons gothic camp or a ****ing cartoon batman.. Begins is sometimes dry, but its atmosphere is still a kind of heightened moody realism.. its still stylised as hell, just opened up a bit more.

to me..this is as close to perfect as im ever gonna see a batman film.. i feel every other aspect / approach to batman has had its shot - now its time for a big moody, stylish, atmospheric, hardcore batman film. its not perfect but Begins made the batman universe exciting again on the big screen IMO when it was dead in the water.. Dark Knight will bring the promise of that film into a new era.. big dark scary edgy action packed, intelligent, complex, sexy.
i feel nolan is trying to take the character into new realms, while still going back to his origins as a shrouded, dark crimefighter. to my mind he is to be applauded for finding a new angle and not letting batman become stale and predictable. he's made batman important and dangerous again.

please give it a chance macleod... u always have every other batman thing ever made if this is too dark or different. even if u have different expectations to what you see being made i hope u can still be open to what they are doing. yeah the toy is horrible .. but that was a very early mould with the wrong colours... we hope.

 

[donk70]

Perhaps. Some are judging it on what they see and some are judging it based on the merits of the 1st one. I thought BB was the best one I've seen of the franchise.

Bale had the look and the feel, plus they finally did the Batman/ Gordon relationship the right way.

Neeson was perhaps a reach for the Ras character, but it worked- sorta.

Murphy was fine as Crane because Crane is a lesser known character.

Oldman was spot on as Gordon. I don't think anyone else could have done a finer job.

I like the Tumbler. It's like Nolan is tipping his cap to Frank Miller (DKR)

Dawes was a waste of film and I eagerly await her death in TDK. I don't care which actress plays her, the character was horrible.

But from some of the stuff that I've seen so far, I'm really let down. The Joker's look is questionable, although I do believe (from all that I read) that Ledger has the persona nailed down. One thing that I am curious about is the flesh colored neck (alledgedly) that I see in the pics that were posted today. I'm gonna reserve my judgement untill I see clearer pics, though.

I don't care for the panda eyes- period. No one arguing with me is going to make me change my mind. This is a major cause for concern for me

The cut smile looks to be toned down a bit from the IBIHD pic, and I hope so is the kool aid mustache.

From what I've seen and read, I do like the purple suit.

The "Slaughter" semi trailer is just the cats ass. Very Joker-ish!

I feel confident that the hair is going to be green. You can't match the vibrance of the green in the comics without going to wig, and I'm afraid that if a wig was used it would look too fake.

Hopefully, the AMH Riddler is just a pipe dream. If it isn't, this is another major concern. Personally, I don't want him associated with Nygma at all. As for the Holiday rumor, I hope that Nolan has the smarts to realize that Holiday was a few different people and not just one person.

Even though he has lighter hair, I dig the casting of Eckart as Dent. I've seen alot of his films and I think he'll do a fine job. I hope he does portray him as narcissistic, though. Dent is supposed to be a very vain individual.

Gary Oldman and Morgan Freeman are back. I truely believe that the world is a better place because of what they have contributed to their craft.

Hopefully they will include more Alfred in this movie. Caine is a class act and any scene with him in is a notch in the right direction.

Of course, these are purely my opinions on what i've seen and read. No matter if I like the Jokers look or not, I am eagerly waiting for this movie to be released.

 

[MacLeod]

How can someone 'hate' a batman film called the dark knight, with an amazing cast and quality of director, with serious backing, $$$, serious commitment to the heavyweight , strongest graphic novels and most cinematic , darkest aspects of the character, which includes the first hardcore attempt to portray the Joker, a serious duel twoface.. with an incredible cast. wtf..

maybe dont overstate nolans realism just in light of burtons gothic camp or a ****ing cartoon batman.. Begins is sometimes dry, but its atmosphere is still a kind of heightened moody realism.. its still stylised as hell, just opened up a bit more.

to me..this is as close to perfect as im ever gonna see a batman film.. i feel every other aspect / approach to batman has had its shot - now its time for a big moody, stylish, atmospheric, hardcore batman film. its not perfect but Begins made the batman universe exciting again on the big screen IMO when it was dead in the water.. Dark Knight will bring the promise of that film into a new era.. big dark scary edgy action packed, intelligent, complex, sexy.
i feel nolan is trying to take the character into new realms, while still going back to his origins as a shrouded, dark crimefighter. to my mind he is to be applauded for finding a new angle and not letting batman become stale and predictable. he's made batman important and dangerous again.

please give it a chance macleod... u always have every other batman thing ever made if this is too dark or different. even if u have different expectations to what you see being made i hope u can still be open to what they are doing. yeah the toy is horrible .. but that was a very early mould with the wrong colours... we hope.

One, it can never be too dark for me, the darker the better in mood and maybe even lighting. Two, I see your point on what you've said but why does Batman have to look like a mix between the Green Goblin and Robocop? I don't care if it's more realistic to the real world it's not Batman, it's a riot gear military man with ears.

 

[Juanigi]

why does he have to look like a monochrome superman with ears?

 

[MacLeod]

why does he have to look like a monochrome superman with ears?

I dont' know. That's another thing, where is the blue and grey or the black and grey? Granted blue would look bad but why is there no color? The toy has it as blue and grey and it looks horrible, it looks like he's ready for some S & M action. Black and grey would work fine for the realism factor, both colors are dark and in fact people would see the chest symbol more which could work well.

 

[Juanigi]

from the guy who saw the actual new suit hanging in a trailer:

Guys in person, the suit is black / grey ... just like that figure. The pic from EW has a lighting effect on it. The BEGINS suit was sitting right next to it, and that suit was PITCH black ... where as TDK suit had shades of grey with darker blacks. I saw them last night, trust me.

Not as bright as the toy, but I think the that toy isn't finished or is a very early prototype. Notice the textured mesh on the figure where it's grey? That is a really dark grey on the actual suit, and on the figure where those various items are PITCH BLACK, it is the exact same in real life. So it gives a subtle look of being black and grey. Alittle contrast, know what I mean. Don't snap off on the toy, it obviously isn't finished yet. The coloring needs to be slightly adjusted and they haven't even put the articulation in yet ... which means they threw it together for just the intial mold. But in an early exaggerated sense, that's how the suit looks boys and girls.

 

[TheBatman072]

from the guy who saw the actual new suit hanging in a trailer:

It's ****ing hilarious, you know?


Nolan's giving EVERYBODY what they want. Moveable neck and head, gray tights, black armor, and more maneuverability.


He's giving us all of that, and yet people STILL ***** about it. They STILL ***** about it!

 

[1981]

That because it doesn't look like the suit from the comics. Fanboys are fanboys for a reason. I would like a "cloth" like suit too.

 

[TheBatman072]

That because it doesn't look like the suit from the comics. Fanboys are fanboys for a reason. I would like a "cloth" like suit too.

Who. Cares.

And while you're whispering to yourself in the theater about how much you'd like an all-cloth suit, I'll be watching Batman kick ass in the best Bat-Suit(from the looks of it) ever.

 

[1981]

I'll be watching it too and still enjoy it.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Spider-Man 3 I think we all thought would be great and yet everybody is agreed that it wasn't great. I think some people like it okay (such as myself) and some people hate it, but nobody thinks it's great, because, well, it's not.

Not everyone.

 

[Stotch]

I'm just excited over what i've been seeing so far. But as hard as it's gonna be, i don't want to have high expectations. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Just like dating

 

[Batman>all]

Of course most people are judging the film too fast on here.

I am going to wait for the final product, or a trailer at the very least before I start being critical of the film. From the scoops and spoilers I have been reading so far though make me believe this will be a good Nolan Bat film

 

[El Payaso]

Are We Judging This Film Too Soon?

Of course, that is what this board is for.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Are We Judging This Film Too Soon?

Of course, that is what this board is for.

Ellie, my old foil. I *love* the custom status.

Also, you make a valid point.

 

[MacLeod]

Who. Cares.

And while you're whispering to yourself in the theater about how much you'd like an all-cloth suit, I'll be watching Batman kick ass in the best Bat-Suit(from the looks of it) ever.

I do. It is not the best Batsuit ever in my opinion, if it were it would look similar to something created over the past seventy years. I want to see Batman kick ass not Robocop.

 

[thegameq]

That was one of the most well written explanations regarding how I feel about Nolan and the direction of the films. Seeing Begins and I'm sure TDK will only make me want more Burton films and BTAS cartoons. They are closer to Batman for me maybe not in story line but in character, especially the look.

Thanks. Your not alone dude, there are plenty of fans who are disappointed that this latest iteration of Batman still isn't the Batman we've been waiting for. I think the fact that Nolan crafted a well made film nonetheless somewhat masks the fact...that and Schumacher-gate has caused batfans to either become desperate or just happy that Batman is back on the big screen in a respectful manner.

Those things said, I did enjoy Begins to some degree. But like Begins, I'll just wait for either the DVD or cable to see TDK.

I'm starting to get a vibe with this character that I got from Fox with Doom in the FF films. I don't think WB likes the comicbook version of Batman at all. For whatever reason, WB must feel that the comicbook version of Batman isn't viable and to big a risk for the big screen. A shame if it's true, a Batman film done in the visual style of 300, Sin City or V, but with the noir and storytelling of BTAS could be an incredible experience.

 

[MacLeod]

Thanks. Your not alone dude, there are plenty of fans who are disappointed that this latest iteration of Batman still isn't the Batman we've been waiting for. I think the fact that Nolan crafted a well made film nonetheless somewhat masks the fact...that and Schumacher-gate has caused batfans to either become desperate or just happy that Batman is back on the big screen in a respectful manner.

Those things said, I did enjoy Begins to some degree. But like Begins, I'll just wait for either the DVD or cable to see TDK.

I'm starting to get a vibe with this character that I got from Fox with Doom in the FF films. I don't think WB likes the comicbook version of Batman at all. For whatever reason, WB must feel that the comicbook version of Batman isn't viable and to big a risk for the big screen. A shame if it's true, a Batman film done in the visual style of 300, Sin City or V, but with the noir and storytelling of BTAS could be an incredible experience.

So there are others out there like me, that's good to know. I think that after Schumacher did his thing everyone got very frightened and are willing to accept anything Batman related as law. Begins was a good movie I just don't see it as a Batman movie. The story played out like a normal vigilante movie compared to Batman. The only way I can accept Begins and the horrible pictures and ideas of TDK is if there is a third movie and that's where he fine tunes everything to become the Batman he should be. Unfortunately, TDK will probably do well despite all the changes and if there is a third one it will move even farther away from the what is needed.

 

[El Payaso]

Ellie, my old foil. I *love* the custom status.

Also, you make a valid point.

lol

and bravo for your sig.