Arrow Arrow 3.23 My Name Is Oliver Queen

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As for Oliver letting Malcolm take over the league, it was either going to be him or someone else. Better the devil you know.

No way! Malcolm is a far worse villain than the original R'as. R'as had some sort of ethical code. Malcolm has killed hundreds of people because his wife got mugged.

The logical choice would be to take on the league himself and disband it. But given that a man who was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good, 40 minutes later is so in love with Felicity he just don't care anymore, he can't do that.

So why not just give the league back to Nyssa? Much more controllable and honorable than Malcolm.
 
Exactly, just give it to Nyssa, she's waiting all of her life for this, she was the one who brought the League to defeat Slade's army on the second season finale, she has some honor and a respect for TA.

If that's not enough have her and Oliver have a small talk that he "gave her" the League, she would not have to league come after Starling City.
 
No way! Malcolm is a far worse villain than the original R'as. R'as had some sort of ethical code. Malcolm has killed hundreds of people because his wife got mugged.

The logical choice would be to take on the league himself and disband it. But given that a man who was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good, 40 minutes later is so in love with Felicity he just don't care anymore, he can't do that.

So why not just give the league back to Nyssa? Much more controllable and honorable than Malcolm.
cause they ether want it to come back to haunt Oliver or to use it for the confrontation with the real Damien darch next season yeah it' still could have bee Nyssa but they want someone to hit Oliver or Oliver to hit someone for strain purpose's like Diggle did to Oliver last night
 
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cause they ether want it to come back to haunt Oliver or to use it for the confrontation with the real Damien darch next season yeah it' still could have bee Nyssa but they want someone to hit Oliver or Oliver to hit someone for strain purpose's like Diggle did to Oliver last night

Oh yeah, I get that. It's a set up. A plot device. Moving Malcolm to R'as Al Ghul kind of cements Merlyn as the big bad of the entire series and later down the line we'll get a pay off. I understand that.

But from a character point of view, there is no good reason that Oliver would give control of the league to him. There are several better options. Himself, Diggle and Nyssa all 'survived' R'as blade. The only semi reason to give it to Merlyn is 'we had a deal'. But R'as is dead so there's no reason to keep that deal. He should have been handing Merlyn over to Lance, not making him R'as Al Ghul! :o
 
No way! Malcolm is a far worse villain than the original R'as. R'as had some sort of ethical code. Malcolm has killed hundreds of people because his wife got mugged.

The logical choice would be to take on the league himself and disband it. But given that a man who was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good, 40 minutes later is so in love with Felicity he just don't care anymore, he can't do that.

So why not just give the league back to Nyssa? Much more controllable and honorable than Malcolm.
But Oliver knows Malcolm more so it is better him than Ra's. He was desperate too. Ra's being the Demons Head was more threatening to Oliver and his city than Malcolm being the leader. I guess he sees it as a short-term solution and that if Malcolm ever comes into conflict with him, then he will deal with it. He probably views Malcolm as less threatening than Ra's as well as not viewing him as quite the leader among men that Ra's was.

Maybe you think it would be more logical for Oliver to disband the League, but maybe now he will have more help from the League than he did before. It is also more interesting to have the League still around than disbanding it. At least in my opinion that is.

As for giving the League to Nyssa, I guess Oliver is a man of his word. He is a bit twisted in some ways and is willing to do dark things in order to get justice, despite trying to stop killing people and trying to become a better person over the years. He killed a man (who was Diggle in his hallucination) to gain Ra's trust, he risked his friends lives and was willing to have ended his own life (in the plane) without ever making it up to them or explaining things to them. He also killed Ra's. He is different to The Flash as Barry trusted Cold because he sees the best in people. Oliver knows that Malcolm is evil but he is still willing to work with him to get the job done. He will go places the likes of Superman, The Flash and even Batman wont go. Also, once again, I guess it is more interesting to give Malcolm the League rather than Nyssa. Perhaps not logical, but more interesting. All IMO of course
 
Oh yeah, I get that. It's a set up. A plot device. Moving Malcolm to R'as Al Ghul kind of cements Merlyn as the big bad of the entire series and later down the line we'll get a pay off. I understand that.

But from a character point of view, there is no good reason that Oliver would give control of the league to him. The only semi reason is 'we had a deal'. But R'as is dead so there's no reason to keep that deal. He should have been handing Merlyn over to Lance, not making him R'as Al Ghul! :o
yeah well logic wise he's been acting dense since before Malcolm showed him the video of thea killing sara.

it's been mention enough people think your a hater of the show when it's mentioned when your just saying you know the show can be better script wise . so I try not to head any farther.

I still care for the show. I don't want to be put into that category of a irrational hater when all I'm saying is that certain plot could be better flashed out what ever mistake they have the character make can be done better with out the protagonists looking like a moron


Just hope for all the plots next season like thea's delayed consequences from the pit which said the pushed back to next season and this plot with Malcolm are done & executed well & addressed .
 
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-Flash felt shoehorned in (why didn't he help stop Ra's again)?
On the off-chance that you are serious, because the show is called Arrow and is about Oliver and watching The Flash easily takedown the LOA in a few seconds, would not be very entertaining or interesting ( it would probably be quite amusing however). Yeah, Barry got help from Oliver and Firestorm and it was Oliver who got the finishing blow but watching three heroes team up and takedown one super-powered villain that would easily overcome any of them one-on-one is much more interesting than watching one super-powered hero take down and easily dispatch a number of villains who are no match for him.
 
Well I was a little disapointed, but it wasn't bad. I thought this was the best season yet. I thought thing couldn't have become more juicy after the 18th episode. I was looking forward to seeing an outcome though. I didn't expect things would still be left down or the toilet, for example

Laurel and Quetin, still at odds with each other.
Diggle no longer trusts Oliver and have lost their friendship.
Roy can no longer be Arsenal again and he's left the series. Disapointed in that.
Last but not least, Arrow/Oliver and Quetin.

I was expecting that things would shape up by the end of this episode but they didn't.

Only things that did shape up was Nyssa not hating Oliver, and Oliver and Felicity being together. Everyone else pretty much seems to still hate Oliver.

Things I did not expect:

Oliver killing Ra's Al Ghul.

All this trying something new swearing a vow to never kill feels like it was meaningless now. Though I understand for their very first battle, Oliver did not have a choice but kill Ra's if he could to protect his sister. I was expecting some surprising resolution that wouldn't involve simply killing Ra's. Makes him just like Ra's.

All the way through season 2's end, Oliver worked so hard not to break his vow even against a being as powerful as Slade Wilson. There should have been a better solution. Look at how Batman defeated Ra's in Batman Begins. Ra's died but Batman didn't kill him.

Here's one other thing they left out. The Arrow didn't return. He was still Al Sa Heim.

All that being said, I give this finale a 6/10 rating. Season 2's finale was epic.

Meanwhile, is Merlyn planning something bad? After all this time, did he just manipulate everyone? Is he planning on destroying Starling City again?
 
In regards to Oliver killing people, it shows that despite his best attempts he is still a dark character who will go places that the like of Barry, Superman and Batman would not go in order to get the job done. He is trying but it seems he can not fight the darkness within him at times

*cue the line about one you let the darkness inside....
 
In regards to Oliver killing people, it shows that despite his best attempts he is still a dark character who will go places that the like of Barry, Superman and Batman would not go in order to get the job done. He is trying but it seems he can not fight the darkness within him at times

*cue the line about one you let the darkness inside....

Handing over the League to Malcolm is worse than killing any bad guy.
 
In regards to Oliver killing people, it shows that despite his best attempts he is still a dark character who will go places that the like of Barry, Superman and Batman would not go in order to get the job done. He is trying but it seems he can not fight the darkness within him at times

*cue the line about one you let the darkness inside....

Yeah, that would have been fine...if they had actually taken the time to address it. All of season two was about his killing/no killing thing, but they don't even address the fact that Oliver killed multiple people this season. It could have been some great character building stuff too. But instead it was just sloppy.
 
I still can't get over Felicity being "BUT OLIVER" and Ray being like "****".
 
A couple things:

Nyssa has always been on her guard. We know Digg (overdramatically) punching Ollie wasn't going to be a big deal,but her reflex is to "self preservation." I didn't see that being a confounding issue.

The "3rd city wide threat in a row" thing isn't a big deal. That's like the Avengers films. You think you get a whole team of heavy hitters up to stop a purse mugging? It's the season finale. Of course the stakes need to be high!

There was no way for Ra's to be defeated without killing him. In this case, I think it was justified. I don't really remember him killing too much this season (that guy in the LOA hallucination being the most flummoxing). I find it more odd that he seems to have less problem with Digg (and to an extent Malcolm) killing people right in front of him.
 
In regards to Oliver killing people, it shows that despite his best attempts he is still a dark character who will go places that the like of Barry, Superman and Batman would not go in order to get the job done. He is trying but it seems he can not fight the darkness within him at times

*cue the line about one you let the darkness inside....

You mean like Superman killing Zod? Yeah, I guess that will never happen... :D
 
You mean like Superman killing Zod? Yeah, I guess that will never happen... :D

Touché :funny:

I cannot believe I forgot about that. I think my general point still stands and for the most part, Superman does not kill.
 
The more I think about it, the more Felicity's rescue of Oliver at the dam becomes stupid. The whole plot with the cops sniping Ollie and Ra's felt like a forced set-up for Felicity's scene. It was also a wasted opportunity to show Lance have some mercy on Oliver. They could've had the snipers wait for his call to shoot them and Lance ordering them not to.

It would've been a better way to show he is slowly lessening his vendetta far more than just talking to Felicity on the phone.
 
yeah! handing over the league of ASS to Malcolm was really some dumb ass^&*!"oh Hey! i know you turned my sister into a murderer who killed the chick i was sleeping with on my dads boat which caused alot of people anguish and heart ache but here the KEYS TO SOME DEADLY ASSASSINS!"Hahahahahahah:whatever:

but as someone mentioned its all just a plot device for later on down the road for Thea to find out about it and cue Crying mascara running, hysterics and "HOW COULD YOU OLLIE!" i am leaving to become i dunno?( ARROWETTE, ARTEMIS some other bow wielding heroine on her own!) Hahahaha

this season after the SUPERB DEATHSTROKE one has been a disappointment!...oh well life goes on!.. theres still FIRESTORM anyway!:cwink:
 
Wait...Oliver survived being shot because of his League gear, but we've seen several assassins either get pierced by arrows or shot by Diggle...and then die. What the ****?

:lmao:

Man, this season was a hot mess.
 
And if he was wearing special League armor, why wasn't Ra's wearing it as well? Oliver wouldn't have been able to run him through with a sword if he had been, right?
 
And if he was wearing special League armor, why wasn't Ra's wearing it as well? Oliver wouldn't have been able to run him through with a sword if he had been, right?
Arrow's Writers season 4 > selective logic all year around 24/7
 
And if he was wearing special League armor, why wasn't Ra's wearing it as well? Oliver wouldn't have been able to run him through with a sword if he had been, right?


Because if he had been dead already then Felicity couldn't have magically learned how to use the magically repaired Atom suit to save him. :o:o:o
 
Maybe next Season's Narration should go like this...

My name is Oliver Queen. For 3 years, I had struggled to become the hero that I was meant to be. In order to have a life of my own, I left one of the world's most dangerous organizations in the hands of a genocidal murderer who had also killed my father and best friend. To do that and still drive away a happy man with a woman who wouldn't shut up about my rejecting her because I wanted to focus on being a hero, I must become something else. I must become someone else...
 
So ... that happened.

I have many issues with this episode and the season as a whole, but let me start with the biggest one - Oliver would not "quit" saving Starling City and Felicity, the real Felicity, would not let Oliver quit trying to save Starling City.

Whatever else happened, I cannot buy Oliver abandoning Starling City completely to run away with Felicity. Sure, maybe a brief holiday, but not a permanent "I'm done here, you other people take over saving this city while I bask in the wonder of Felicity's magic vajajay which makes good men do stupid things".

I also cannot buy Felicity letting Oliver abandon Starling City. The man that Felicity supposedly fell in love with was a hero on a mission. That mission hasn't been completed (after all, the city will need saving again next May).

It would have been a thousand times more logical and more fitting for the characters if Oliver had acknowledge that he can't return to being the Arrow because everyone in Starling City believes that the Arrow aka Roy Harper was killed in prison. Instead, Oliver should have said that with financial help from Thea (using Malcolm's inheritance), legal help and political advice from Laurel and the support of Diggle and Felicity, Oliver planned to fulfil his mother's legacy by running for mayor of Starling City. Oliver would pledge to continue his quest to save Starling City, but as Oliver Queen not the Arrow!

That is a "happily ever after" scenario that I could support. What I can't support or understand is Oliver, after repeatedly telling the residents of Starling City that he would never abandon them, abandoning his city all because he can't be the Arrow and have a relationship with Felicity.

It's as if Oliver is blind to the fact that Diggle and Lyla somehow manage to have a relationship and raise a daughter despite the fact that Diggle fights just as much crime as Oliver and Lyla was, up until recently, a super secret agent! Oliver has plenty of time to date Felicity during the day and then they can save lives during the evening! Or keep the whole thing as an office romance.

My other quibbles, both major and minor:

- Oliver defeats Ra's. Quite easily. Actually, way too easily. Ra's must have put Oliver through one heck of an intensive training course during his time at Nanda Parbat.

- Felicity as ATOM. It's taken numerous episodes for Ray to learn to control the ATOM suit. We've seen him struggle almost every time he puts it on. It was part of his journey. Yet thanks to the wonder of bad writing, Felicity wears the ATOM suit for the first time and can masterfully control it. As ... silly as it was to see Felicity in the suit, it was even more foolish to depict as being able to pilot it perfectly. At the very least, she should have been really struggling to control it and only just managing to save Oliver and to land it safely without killing them both.

- The cure. I completely missed how that was hand-waved away. So, Oliver didn't find out that Ra's had the Alpha Omega until he was appointed Ra's heir and basically imprisoned at Nanda Parbat under constant surveillance. BUT, Oliver somehow got in contact with someone (was it Barry or someone else) and gave them a sample of his blood to create a cure for the A) which could be administered by a magic glove worn by Malcolm (because no-one in Team Arrow would think it was odd when Malcolm went around touching them all on their necks or faces since that was their only exposed skin). Or was it the constantly flip-flopping Maseo who developed the cure for Oliver. Except it can't have been Maseo since he had the cure himself and wouldn't have needed Oliver's blood. So, it must have been Barry and Team Flash even though it was never mentioned by anyone on that show.

- I also fail to see how Oliver found the time to leave Nanda Parbat to help the Flash defeat the Reverse Flash. I also find it ludicrous that instead of calling the Flash and asking for help when Ra's, the AO, Oliver, etc were still at Nanda Parbat, Oliver apparently waits to contact Barry until after the plane has taken off all because of Oliver's brilliant plan to crash the plan and kill everyone on board! The timeline of the cross-overs was a real mess.

- And Oliver is back to being a murderer now? Don't get me wrong, I think it's only logical that someone who fights crime with a bow and arrow is going to have to kill sometimes (possibly a lot of the time), but after his endless declarations about never taking another life he killed what could have been an innocent man to prove his devotion to Ra's and then openly killed Ra's. Yet, apparently refuses to kill or even imprison Malcolm?

- Nyssa. Poor, poor Nyssa. Such an awesome character with so much potential. I also refuse to believe, even for a second, that Nyssa would serve in the LOA under Malcolm as the new Ra's Al Ghul. At best, I could see Nyssa leaving the LOA (either with or without Malcolm's permission), but planning to kill Malcolm and assume control of the LOA in due course.

- Similarly, Tatsu! We get a few minutes of kick azz action in an awesome costume and then she just runs off? So, Tatsu agreed to help Oliver because she didn't want to see the AO released in another city. Yet, when their initial plan fails and it appears imminent that the AO will soon be released in Starling City, Tatsu bails on Team Arrow to ... go back to solitude? I would have preferred to see Tatsu killed in combat against the LOA in Nanda Parbat or Starling City instead of being written out of the episode (and possibly the series) in such a terrible way.

- And Thea. So, Thea was rightly mightily peeved that Malcolm forced her to kill while drugged, yet on her very first outing as Red Arrow/Speedy, she puts three arrows into a LOA member? And no-one comments on Thea becoming an active and willing murderer despite Oliver's big quest not to murder, Oliver's over-protectiveness of Thea, any possible concerns about her willingness to murder being a possible side effect of her time in the Lazarus Pit, etc. It's just glossed over because she has a cool costume and everyone, even Oliver, happily accepts that she'll just start roaming the streets fighting crime from now on! What the? The same Oliver who agreed to fight and more than likely die at the hands of Ra's to "protect" Thea from harm is now happy to see her run around on the streets where she is very, very, very likely to suffer some form of harm!

- Malcolm. Oliver should have killed Malcolm. If not, then Oliver should have imprisoned him on Lian Yu. If Lian Yu can now hold metahumans with all sorts of funky superpowers, then it can hold Malcolm. If not, then paralyse him and imprison him. Or remove a leg and imprison him. But, do NOT appoint him as head of a purportedly powerful league of assassins!

- Poor Ray. What little character development he received this season could have surely been summed up in about five minutes of the opening of Legends of Tomorrow. Such a wasted character for this show with no real legacy for the characters on Arrow. And his constantly demonstrated incompetence was capped off by showing him blow himself up.

- Much like Oliver being broke and unable to afford to continue being the Arrow was forgotten, will Felicity's new status as billionaire owner of Palmer Technologies, formerly Queen Consolidated, also be ignored next season? Or were the title deeds (or whatever that document was) blown up along with Ray?

- I'm glad that Diggle will finally be getting a costume. Diggle was regularly shown on TV and captured in photos with Oliver when serving as his bodyguard. Given all the press Oliver has repeatedly received after being suspected of being the Arrow, it's incredible that no-one has ever made the connection between Oliver Queen's bodyguard and that guy who is always seen fighting crime with the Arrow on the streets of Starling City!

- And does Laurel even work any more? If so, how does she manage to juggle long working hours in a high pressure job as District Attorney with spending her nights fighting crime or training to fight crime?

- Are they setting Captain Lance up to quit or be fired now that he is drinking again? After flouting the law when he arrested Oliver Queen for being the Arrow based on the word of some random guy in an alleyway, I'm surprised that he hasn't already been fired.

- I'm so looking forward to watching Oliver's "flashbacks" of backpacking around the world next season. NOT. Maybe they'll ditch the flashbacks since it's clear that they don't know what they're doing with them. The flashbacks in season 3 were essentially pointless and the few relevant plot points could have easily been condensed in a single episodes worth of flashbacks or maybe a single episode set in the past. Not to mention that all of the characterisation in the final episode was bizarre. Akio dies, so Oliver ties up the General, heads next door for the cremation, comes back a few hours later (and no-one has untied the General or rescued him or whatever), tortures the General nearly to death, is found by Tatsu and Maseo even though he was only a couple of shops away and they surely would have heard the General's screams and Maseo kills the General. But, then Maseo says that he's a bad person for not killing the General (?) and decides to abandon his wife while their son's ashes are still fresh in her hands and take the AO to the LEAGUE OF ASSASSINS because that seems like a good idea at the time!

Look, I only complain so much because I want to like this show. Heck, I want to love this show and all the characters on it. I want it to be good. I want it to be at least as good as season 2 if not a LOT better (especially since Slade's motivations in season 2 were dubious at best). I get that it's a comic book show and that there is a certain suspension of disbelief required when watching, but this season has gone far beyond that for me.

Honestly, with The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl, Agents of SHIELD, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, iZombie, etc, I'm really not sure I can be bothered with a show that treats its characters and by extension its fans so poorly.
 
I am wondering if the producers were planning on doing a Flashpoint thing this whole time and figured they give Olicity fans what they want while also crapping on everything else, just so they could undo it.
 
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