Arrow Arrow Season 3 Episode 20 ""The Fallen"" Discussion Thread

[Prep Time]

I feel like Marc comes off as a person who doesn't know how to take constructive criticism well and would label any legitimate issues that fans would have with the product as us being nothing more than disgruntled shippers who don't know what's best for us.

The fact that they keep misusing certain characters despite people having protested about it for most of the season really shows that.

Or the Felicity actress is having some fun on that writers couch with the writers. Think casting couch but for the writers. In exchange for more scenes

 

[luis4u]

Wait did that seriously happen?

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/558311716312735744

This is exciting: Overwatch just sold out on Amazon. I suspect I have the legions of Olicity fans to thank. http://overwatchbook.com

 

[Snow Queen]

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/558311716312735744

This is exciting: Overwatch just sold out on Amazon. I suspect I have the legions of Olicity fans to thank. http://overwatchbook.com

I wonder if it makes no sense, characters are inconsistent and it rips off Batman.

 

[herolee10]

Or the Felicity actress is having some fun on that writers couch with the writers. Think casting couch but for the writers. In exchange for more scenes

It's one thing not to like a Fictional Character, but did you have to insult the actual actress for it?

 

[Prep Time]

It's one thing not to like a Fictional Character, but did you have to insult the actual actress for it?

Its only speculation

 

[Snow Queen]

It's one thing not to like a Fictional Character, but did you have to insult the actual actress for it?

 

[Boy Scout]

People aren't all that likely to think some guy who walks in is actually a dead guy.

I don't believe that. Not only was Malcolm once a very successful businessman, but he was also discovered to be responsible for a terrorist attack that killed over 500 people and leveled an entire community. There's no way he wouldn't be recognized.

Yeah, I agree with that. Her disorientation was fine (although she's recovering too quickly), but the jump out thing was awful.

And that hiss. Good God.

Just speculating going forward, I thought it creates an odd conflict. We're supposed to believe that Oliver is going to be brainwashed into only serving the League, but a long-time League member had a sudden change of heart, so it's easily possible.

The idea wasn't terrible, but the execution was beyond sloppy.

Why would they be capable?

Because they're incredibly intelligent doctors who have created and done extraordinary things?

We're talking about irreversible brain damage. The only person at STAR Labs who could help is Barry and that's only by time traveling.

Who mentioned anything about brain damage?

Yeah, the very end, with the branding. It was clear Ra's is going to condition him into being a very different person.

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote. What I was saying is that Oliver becoming the new Ra's doesn't (as far as anyone knows) prevent him from visiting anyone in Starling City whenever he feels like it. Everyone's just assuming that's the case, and I'm wondering if I've missed or forgotten anything that confirmed those feelings.

 

[herolee10]

Anyways, I feel like the only that characters such as Iris and Felicity can recover from this slump that they seem to face as a result of bad writing is by having them placed on the back-burner and let someone else take the heat.

However, the only problem with that is how the Producers are so incompetent with writing female leads that any female character that takes the spotlight is doomed to be hindered with bad writing and CW-Tumblr like shipper moments.

Why couldn't Steven DeKnight be in charge of the CW-DCU? The dude knows how to handle characters so much better than Marc and Andrew.

 

[Perfect Cell]

Its only speculation

And it was gross.

 

[Snow Queen]

Anyways, I feel like the only that characters such as Iris and Felicity can recover from this slump that they seem to face as a result of bad writing is by having them placed on the back-burner and let someone else take the heat.

However, the only problem with that is how the Producers are so incompetent with writing female leads that any female character that takes the spotlight is doomed to be hindered with bad writing and CW-Tumblr like shipper moments.

Why couldn't Steven DeKnight be in charge of the CW-DCU? The dude knows how to handle characters so much better than Marc and Andrew.

Or maybe they should just ask Guggenheim's wife about how to write female characters...and male characters...and plots.

 

[herolee10]

The idea wasn't terrible, but the execution was beyond sloppy.

That one quote pretty much describes what Season 3 of "Arrow" has been all about so far.lol

 

[luis4u]

Anyways, I feel like the only that characters such as Iris and Felicity can recover from this slump that they seem to face as a result of bad writing is by having them placed on the back-burner and let someone else take the heat.

However, the only problem with that is how the Producers are so incompetent with writing female leads that any female character that takes the spotlight is doomed to be hindered with bad writing and CW-Tumblr like shipper moments.

Why couldn't Steven DeKnight be in charge of the CW-DCU? The dude knows how to handle characters so much better than Marc and Andrew.

Hell yeah Steven deknight some of the best smallville episodes liked justice.

 

[herolee10]

Or maybe they should just ask Guggenheim's wife about how to write female characters...and male characters...and plots.

I know, right?

Just look at how she handled Agent Carter. Even though her chance with Steve was tragically ripped away from her, you didn't see her whining and crying about it like Felicity does about Oliver in every scene that she has with him.

The way that Peggy was portrayed is a prime example of what producers and show runners should aspire for their female leads to be like in their comic book-genre properties.

 

[luis4u]

I know, right?

Just look at how she handled Agent Carter. Even though her chance with Steve was tragically ripped away from her, you didn't see her whining and crying about it like Felicity does about Oliver in every scene that she has with him.

The way that Peggy was portrayed is a prime example of what producers and show runners should aspire for their female leads to be like in their comic book-genre properties.

Or maybe some advice from his wife since she is agent carter show runner.

 

[Paradox1]

Really dislike Felicity this episode, I could of done with her at Nanda Parbat. When she was talking to Ra's that was so face palm worthy. I just wanted to smack her to shut up, your freaking talking to Ra's Al Ghul like a highschool girl with a crush.

 

[Human Torch]

This felt like -dare I say- "jump the shark" territory. I mean,this feels like something you'd do in the -say- 8th season of a show. Y'know,when you've tapped out all the story ideas and you're willing to embrace the absurd just to do something a little different. Only this is the 3rd season.


Much like last week,I'm fairly flabbergasted. Although I would say I enjoyed this one marginally more than last week.

Thea's discovery and subsequent ER scenes were all very uncomfortable. Amell gave a great performance in this episode.

Thea's transformation was a bit odd. I mean, what is supposed to happen now? A darker Thea?

It just feels like all this has taken us a million years to get here and now, where are we?

I still don't really get the whole Ra's thing. It's being treated like a fate worse than death. But correct me if I'm wrong,Ra's all out admitted that the League would be his to do with whatever he wanted. Why can't he keep his friends there with him? Or better yet, return to starling and operate from there? And what happens now? Ollie has to wait for Ra's to croak before taking the full title? It's just not very clear,probably because they're making it up as they go.

The Olicity stuff,yeah,was pretty annoying. I was ok with it up to the make out scene,which might've played better if I didn't feel like it was merely the showrunners making good on their promise to the Olicity brigade.

Masau probably won't make it out of the season alive,but I feel for the guy. I really hope he survives and makes peace with his life. We finally get some confirmation here that his son is dead.

Flashbacks: Cool Raider-esq action scene with the truck. I'm glad to see Ollie is not as helpless as he used to be,but I wonder how they can find the right balance. I mean, he's going to be "on the island" another 2 years. Still not sure what the deal is with the A & O drug,but whatever.

Laurel seems to be purposely omitted from the proceedings whenever something big is going down. I did like her scene with Felicity near the end. She's a much stronger character than last season,at least.

So Ray's "romance" (such as it was) is over. I'm not sure it ever really began,but it still feels like Ray's too nice a guy to react the way I'd expect him to.

Ollie trusting Thea with Malcolm could be considered a head scratcher if it wasn't par for the course for Malcolm all season.

Anyway,in the final analysis, I really don't know where they think they're going still. I remember the potential the series felt like it had going into the 3rd season.Comparing it with Flash this season,(or heck,even Arrow's last season) I just wish we could have as much fun here. It seems like a massive downer every week and I don't see (at least the show is not giving me reason to see) them returning to the status quo. It doesn't seem possible now. I'm really hoping the show I loved isn't gone,but can still have a Lazarus Pit experience of it's own.

 

[herolee10]

For those that have seen it, can someone let me know which parts I should probably fast forward or skip? If it helps the selection process, I can't really stand anything that deals with Olicity or Felicity at this point.lol

 

[Bats1690]

For those that have seen it, can someone let me know which parts I should probably fast forward or skip? If it helps the selection process, I can't really stand anything that deals with Olicity or Felicity at this point.lol

Everything related to Olicity. Personally the only scenes I thoroughly enjoyed in this episode were the ones with Ra's. Matt Nable's portrayal of Ra's is absolutely exceptional. He's by far the best thing about season 3 IMO.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't believe that. Not only was Malcolm once a very successful businessman, but he was also discovered to be responsible for a terrorist attack that killed over 500 people and leveled an entire community. There's no way he wouldn't be recognized.

Muammar Gaddafi could walk into a Starbucks and the most I would do is say "hey, that guy kinda looks a little like Muammar Gaddafi." I certainly wouldn't go "you know, I wonder if that is Gaddafi and he faked his death."

 

[ThePreface]

Really dislike Felicity this episode, I could of done with her at Nanda Parbat. When she was talking to Ra's that was so face palm worthy. I just wanted to smack her to shut up, your freaking talking to Ra's Al Ghul like a highschool girl with a crush.

I was half hoping that Ra's would decapitate her in that scene.

 

[Human Torch]

Muammar Gaddafi could walk into a Starbucks and the most I would do is say "hey, that guy kinda looks a little like Muammar Gaddafi." I certainly wouldn't go "you know, I wonder if that is Gaddafi and he faked his death."

Yeah,I kinda thought the same.

 

[Human Torch]

Really dislike Felicity this episode, I could of done with her at Nanda Parbat. When she was talking to Ra's that was so face palm worthy. I just wanted to smack her to shut up, your freaking talking to Ra's Al Ghul like a highschool girl with a crush.

I thought it was pretty amusing.t:

 

[Bats1690]

I was half hoping that Ra's would decapitate her in that scene.

If only...

It's really sad that Felicity has went from one of the most beloved female characters in Arrow in seasons 1 and 2 to the absolute worst character (not just female) in Arrow in the span of not even a full season.

She literally makes season 2 Laurel look like a godsend in comparison.

 

[cheungcheung]

Ra's was like felicity's pimp in his scene with her....

This olicity stuff needs to end but it's obvious that it's just beginning....

 

[Paradox1]

I was half hoping that Ra's would decapitate her in that scene.

I like Felicity to much to see her dead. However if he had punched her in the throat so she couldn't speak for the rest of the episode. Till she got back to Starling for that Laurel scene I would of been happy.

I thought it was pretty amusing.t:

It was amusing because she has some audacity to speak to him like that. Yet it is still Ra's Freakling AL Ghul. He's nearly killed Oliver and Thea killing her would be like killing swatting a bug.