Arrow Arrow season 4 episode 23 "Schism"

[FunkMiller]

Oh boy... that wasn't good, was it?

Mind you, I enjoyed the big fight scene at the end.

...4 years ago. On a cinema screen. With a much bigger budget.

Arrow desperately needs to come out from under the shadow that Christopher Nolan casts if it ever wants to be the show it can, and should be. We've had one legitimately great season, one okay season and two poor ones.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

We've had one legitimately great season, one okay season and two poor ones.

I beg to differ there. I think we've had two great seasons (S1-S2), one meh season (S3), and one really bad season with some gems hidden here and there (S4). The show's not what it used to be for sure, but even amidst this season's terrible second half there were some good moments. It's just, the writing took some kind of weird terrible downturn this half and it wasn't even primarily because of Olicity because they stopped all that drama a few episodes ago, and yet somehow Felicity's still like the primary focus and it's all just really depressing.

 

[ARBH]

I made it to the end! The good news is, I will have some free space on my DVR next season. I am done with this show.

 

[X-Ray]

I'll be tuning it just to see what affect that Barry's action in the Flash's season finale has on the show.

 

[Gallops]

I beg to differ there. I think we've had two great seasons (S1-S2), one meh season (S3), and one really bad season with some gems hidden here and there (S4). The show's not what it used to be for sure, but even amidst this season's terrible second half there were some good moments. It's just, the writing took some kind of weird terrible downturn this half and it wasn't even primarily because of Olicity because they stopped all that drama a few episodes ago, and yet somehow Felicity's still like the primary focus and it's all just really depressing.

This is why I'm hoping they turn it around in season 5. There were episodes that were very good and reminded me of seasons 1 and 2, and episodes that were really bad. I think anytime the main focus of the episode was on their struggles with H.I.V.E. and Damien Darkh, the episode was good. Episodes that focused on anything else or were too Oliver/Felicity centric were just poorly written and executed.

I personally enjoyed the finale and am looking forward to seeing what happens with the team with Diggle re-enlisting and Thea leaving the team. I hope they go back to more of the season 1-2 version of Oliver, where it's all business and saving the city. I think introducing another vigilante as they have teased would add to the season because it could result in a few solid confrontations before a partnership to take down a greater villain.

I think the central villain next season shouldn't be looking to destroy Star City because that has been every season so far. It should be someone looking to just end the Green Arrow and all of his friends/family/loved ones. Have a few smaller threats to the city but nothing where the city is threatened to be blown to pieces or run down by super soldiers. Let the threat be personal between Oliver and the villain this year and change it up.

 

[Loki882]

See Thea is one of the few characters that I like/find interesting. So her leaving is one of the things that I DON'T want to see. Nor do I want to see Oliver regress back to his old self. The problem isn't him having a team/being more stable, it was how the showrunners chose to convey that.

So going back to S1/S2 Oliver is a bad idea I think. All they'd have to do is to write Oliver and co better, which shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I'll be tuning it just to see what affect that Barry's action in the Flash's season finale has on the show.

It won't and it shouldn't. That would be bad writing. Not everyone watches the Flash who watches Arrow and a fan of Arrow shouldn't have to watch the Flash finale to understand what's going on.

If the action that had consequences was in a crossover, that would be different. But please don't watch the show just to look for Flash connections and be disappointe when they inevitably aren't there.

 

[Slade W]

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Oliver is going to revert back to his old self in season 1, 2 or 3. Zero.

 

[Kar]

"My Name is Felicity Smoak. For two years, I was an lovable character on a popular show. But my good girl approach wasn't enough. To claim this show as my own, I had to become an insufferable, nagging, hypocritical, and annoying character to drive most of my allies away so that I could have the spotlight to myself. I had to become...SOMEONE ELSE..."

Dude lol

 

[Primal Slayer]

I'll be tuning it just to see what affect that Barry's action in the Flash's season finale has on the show.

I honestly think that it won't affect Arrow in any way, at least not noticeably.

 

[Jick]

You know what's the real problem with Arrow right now?
Banalization.

- How banal it is to have a masked hero in the city. With a little bit of training anyone seems to be able to do it.

- How banal death became. It used to have an impact and we knew it was a point of no return until the Pit came along. It's now destroyed and I hope Laurel's death is a sign that death is now permanent, but it might be coming too late.

- How banal hacking is. It's a solution for nearly everything. If you wanna disarm an army of little robots, break in anywhere or redirect how many nuclear missiles you want, just use hacking. It's like magic, you don't really need to explain. Just go with it.

- How banal 15000 nuclear missiles are and the deaths caused by one seem to have little to zero effect on the characters. Once again, deaths became so banal.

- How banal the action became. Oliver used to be the best and we used to get well choreographed battles. Now a fight scene is just another fight scene.

- How banal the city being threatened feels. I felt the impact in the first season, I felt it in the second season. The thrid was already pushing it. The fourth I just couldn't care. Whereas the first season showed me that the hero can't always completely win and there might be some serious damage done, seasons 3 and 4 showed me that the city is safe. They won't go an extra mile with it like they did in the first. It will not suffer any big repercussions anymore. So why bother caring? And, if it does, just use hacking. Please, don't try to go bigger next season.

- How banal the story became, It's like a soap opera now. A really bad one that they're doing their best to drag. I hate Olicity. It's the most out of place couple I can think of. There's simply no chemistry between them and they simply don't match.

- How banal the flashbacks became. Season 3's made no sense to be there, in my opinion and season 4 felt like they just HAD to put flashbacks there, for whatever reason, but didn't have a good excuse to do so. It added nothing to the show.

- How banal dialogue is. That speach on the top of the car was embarassing. Funny how every-freaking-one shuts the hell up when there's a known man on top of a car asking for attention when they're about to be nuked in a few minutes. Yeah, that totally would be the standard reaction of desperate people. One looks at the other and nods like they're saying "yeah, this guy's got a point, let's not fight and cry out loud". I swear I saw those same reactions many times on South Park.

- How banal this series became. It used to be serious, well written, grounded, full of development for each character. Kept me wondering what would come next. What would be the reaction of the characters after each turning point. It was simply more interesting when they weren't so concerned about going bigger with the threat of the season, but instead were focusing on making us understand where this character was coming from and what he is going to become.

They need to get new writers asap. This has become an uninteresting show and I don't plan to tag along for next season. An overhaul is overdue.

 

[DeadFan]

^^ well said

 

[Gallops]

You know what's the real problem with Arrow right now?
Banalization.

- How banal it is to have a masked hero in the city. With a little bit of training anyone seems to be able to do it.

- How banal death became. It used to have an impact and we knew it was a point of no return until the Pit came along. It's now destroyed and I hope Laurel's death is a sign that death is now permanent, but it might be coming too late.

- How banal hacking is. It's a solution for nearly everything. If you wanna disarm an army of little robots, break in anywhere or redirect how many nuclear missiles you want, just use hacking. It's like magic, you don't really need to explain. Just go with it.

- How banal 15000 nuclear missiles are and the deaths caused by one seem to have little to zero effect on the characters. Once again, deaths became so banal.

- How banal the action became. Oliver used to be the best and we used to get well choreographed battles. Now a fight scene is just another fight scene.

- How banal the city being threatened feels. I felt the impact in the first season, I felt it in the second season. The thrid was already pushing it. The fourth I just couldn't care. Whereas the first season showed me that the hero can't always completely win and there might be some serious damage done, seasons 3 and 4 showed me that the city is safe. They won't go an extra mile with it like they did in the first. It will not suffer any big repercussions anymore. So why bother caring? And, if it does, just use hacking. Please, don't try to go bigger next season.

- How banal the story became, It's like a soap opera now. A really bad one that they're doing their best to drag. I hate Olicity. It's the most out of place couple I can think of. There's simply no chemistry between them and they simply don't match.

- How banal the flashbacks became. Season 3's made no sense to be there, in my opinion and season 4 felt like they just HAD to put flashbacks there, for whatever reason, but didn't have a good excuse to do so. It added nothing to the show.

- How banal dialogue is. That speach on the top of the car was embarassing. Funny how every-freaking-one shuts the hell up when there's a known man on top of a car asking for attention when they're about to be nuked in a few minutes. Yeah, that totally would be the standard reaction of desperate people. One looks at the other and nods like they're saying "yeah, this guy's got a point, let's not fight and cry out loud". I swear I saw those same reactions many times on South Park.

- How banal this series became. It used to be serious, well written, grounded, full of development for each character. Kept me wondering what would come next. What would be the reaction of the characters after each turning point. It was simply more interesting when they weren't so concerned about going bigger with the threat of the season, but instead were focusing on making us understand where this character was coming from and what he is going to become.

They need to get new writers asap. This has become an uninteresting show and I don't plan to tag along for next season. An overhaul is overdue.

I agree with that. I feel like Felicity should have shown more emotion following that because she essentially is the one that cause the nuke to destroy the one area. If they don't build on it in season 5 then the whole scene was useless, and I'll be honest I'm not confident they will build on it.

I don't think they need a complete overhaul, I think they need to focus on what made this show great the first two seasons and not focus on the relationship between Oliver and Felicity as much. I think completely shying away from it isn't the answer, but not making it a feature every episode. I think Donna needs to have A LOT less visibility in season 5 because I hated every scene she was in.

I'm interested in seeing who the villain is in season 5 and if they go with the whole "Punisher vs Daredevil" type of storyline, who the other vigilante turns out to be. Hopefully they do it justice and don't give us garbage.

Season 4 as a whole I enjoyed. Not as much as the first 2 seasons, but I liked it. There were some episodes they could have literally left out and the show would have survived and not batted an eye. Others were excellent and reminded me of what seasons 1 and 2 were. I think more focus on Oliver and his battle to help Star City and less on Oliver and his relationship with Felicity is needed to get back on track.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

You know what's the real problem with Arrow right now?
Banalization.

- How banal it is to have a masked hero in the city. With a little bit of training anyone seems to be able to do it.

- How banal death became. It used to have an impact and we knew it was a point of no return until the Pit came along. It's now destroyed and I hope Laurel's death is a sign that death is now permanent, but it might be coming too late.

- How banal hacking is. It's a solution for nearly everything. If you wanna disarm an army of little robots, break in anywhere or redirect how many nuclear missiles you want, just use hacking. It's like magic, you don't really need to explain. Just go with it.

- How banal 15000 nuclear missiles are and the deaths caused by one seem to have little to zero effect on the characters. Once again, deaths became so banal.

- How banal the action became. Oliver used to be the best and we used to get well choreographed battles. Now a fight scene is just another fight scene.

- How banal the city being threatened feels. I felt the impact in the first season, I felt it in the second season. The thrid was already pushing it. The fourth I just couldn't care. Whereas the first season showed me that the hero can't always completely win and there might be some serious damage done, seasons 3 and 4 showed me that the city is safe. They won't go an extra mile with it like they did in the first. It will not suffer any big repercussions anymore. So why bother caring? And, if it does, just use hacking. Please, don't try to go bigger next season.

- How banal the story became, It's like a soap opera now. A really bad one that they're doing their best to drag. I hate Olicity. It's the most out of place couple I can think of. There's simply no chemistry between them and they simply don't match.

- How banal the flashbacks became. Season 3's made no sense to be there, in my opinion and season 4 felt like they just HAD to put flashbacks there, for whatever reason, but didn't have a good excuse to do so. It added nothing to the show.

- How banal dialogue is. That speach on the top of the car was embarassing. Funny how every-freaking-one shuts the hell up when there's a known man on top of a car asking for attention when they're about to be nuked in a few minutes. Yeah, that totally would be the standard reaction of desperate people. One looks at the other and nods like they're saying "yeah, this guy's got a point, let's not fight and cry out loud". I swear I saw those same reactions many times on South Park.

- How banal this series became. It used to be serious, well written, grounded, full of development for each character. Kept me wondering what would come next. What would be the reaction of the characters after each turning point. It was simply more interesting when they weren't so concerned about going bigger with the threat of the season, but instead were focusing on making us understand where this character was coming from and what he is going to become.

They need to get new writers asap. This has become an uninteresting show and I don't plan to tag along for next season. An overhaul is overdue.

Fantastic post, sir! Everything you stated here is 100% accurate. t:

 

[O'Haire]

You know what's the real problem with Arrow right now?
Banalization.

- How banal it is to have a masked hero in the city. With a little bit of training anyone seems to be able to do it.

- How banal death became. It used to have an impact and we knew it was a point of no return until the Pit came along. It's now destroyed and I hope Laurel's death is a sign that death is now permanent, but it might be coming too late.

- How banal hacking is. It's a solution for nearly everything. If you wanna disarm an army of little robots, break in anywhere or redirect how many nuclear missiles you want, just use hacking. It's like magic, you don't really need to explain. Just go with it.

- How banal 15000 nuclear missiles are and the deaths caused by one seem to have little to zero effect on the characters. Once again, deaths became so banal.

- How banal the action became. Oliver used to be the best and we used to get well choreographed battles. Now a fight scene is just another fight scene.

- How banal the city being threatened feels. I felt the impact in the first season, I felt it in the second season. The thrid was already pushing it. The fourth I just couldn't care. Whereas the first season showed me that the hero can't always completely win and there might be some serious damage done, seasons 3 and 4 showed me that the city is safe. They won't go an extra mile with it like they did in the first. It will not suffer any big repercussions anymore. So why bother caring? And, if it does, just use hacking. Please, don't try to go bigger next season.

- How banal the story became, It's like a soap opera now. A really bad one that they're doing their best to drag. I hate Olicity. It's the most out of place couple I can think of. There's simply no chemistry between them and they simply don't match.

- How banal the flashbacks became. Season 3's made no sense to be there, in my opinion and season 4 felt like they just HAD to put flashbacks there, for whatever reason, but didn't have a good excuse to do so. It added nothing to the show.

- How banal dialogue is. That speach on the top of the car was embarassing. Funny how every-freaking-one shuts the hell up when there's a known man on top of a car asking for attention when they're about to be nuked in a few minutes. Yeah, that totally would be the standard reaction of desperate people. One looks at the other and nods like they're saying "yeah, this guy's got a point, let's not fight and cry out loud". I swear I saw those same reactions many times on South Park.

- How banal this series became. It used to be serious, well written, grounded, full of development for each character. Kept me wondering what would come next. What would be the reaction of the characters after each turning point. It was simply more interesting when they weren't so concerned about going bigger with the threat of the season, but instead were focusing on making us understand where this character was coming from and what he is going to become.

They need to get new writers asap. This has become an uninteresting show and I don't plan to tag along for next season. An overhaul is overdue.

 

[Ioini]

Maybe a Flashpoint restart is what this show needs. Make me forget the past two seasons, what tripe that was.

 

[Slade W]

Unless the flashpoint restart has an effect on Guggenheims personality and writing ability and changes him, then it is not going to do much. A flashpoint restart will do nothing because the source of the problem is still there.

 

[Ioini]

He was a lot better when he was on a leash, now he's set loose. That's the problem. He needs to be regulated.

 

[mr. peasant]

Unless the flashpoint restart has an effect on Guggenheims personality and writing ability and changes him, then it is not going to do much. A flashpoint restart will do nothing because the source of the problem is still there.

Nah. I'm afraid the only solution here is a full blown lobotomy on the G.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

You know what's the real problem with Arrow right now?
Banalization.

- How banal it is to have a masked hero in the city. With a little bit of training anyone seems to be able to do it.

- How banal death became. It used to have an impact and we knew it was a point of no return until the Pit came along. It's now destroyed and I hope Laurel's death is a sign that death is now permanent, but it might be coming too late.

- How banal hacking is. It's a solution for nearly everything. If you wanna disarm an army of little robots, break in anywhere or redirect how many nuclear missiles you want, just use hacking. It's like magic, you don't really need to explain. Just go with it.

- How banal 15000 nuclear missiles are and the deaths caused by one seem to have little to zero effect on the characters. Once again, deaths became so banal.

- How banal the action became. Oliver used to be the best and we used to get well choreographed battles. Now a fight scene is just another fight scene.

- How banal the city being threatened feels. I felt the impact in the first season, I felt it in the second season. The thrid was already pushing it. The fourth I just couldn't care. Whereas the first season showed me that the hero can't always completely win and there might be some serious damage done, seasons 3 and 4 showed me that the city is safe. They won't go an extra mile with it like they did in the first. It will not suffer any big repercussions anymore. So why bother caring? And, if it does, just use hacking. Please, don't try to go bigger next season.

- How banal the story became, It's like a soap opera now. A really bad one that they're doing their best to drag. I hate Olicity. It's the most out of place couple I can think of. There's simply no chemistry between them and they simply don't match.

- How banal the flashbacks became. Season 3's made no sense to be there, in my opinion and season 4 felt like they just HAD to put flashbacks there, for whatever reason, but didn't have a good excuse to do so. It added nothing to the show.

- How banal dialogue is. That speach on the top of the car was embarassing. Funny how every-freaking-one shuts the hell up when there's a known man on top of a car asking for attention when they're about to be nuked in a few minutes. Yeah, that totally would be the standard reaction of desperate people. One looks at the other and nods like they're saying "yeah, this guy's got a point, let's not fight and cry out loud". I swear I saw those same reactions many times on South Park.

- How banal this series became. It used to be serious, well written, grounded, full of development for each character. Kept me wondering what would come next. What would be the reaction of the characters after each turning point. It was simply more interesting when they weren't so concerned about going bigger with the threat of the season, but instead were focusing on making us understand where this character was coming from and what he is going to become.

They need to get new writers asap. This has become an uninteresting show and I don't plan to tag along for next season. An overhaul is overdue.

totally agree with this!!right on all points!
you are going to hack a feaking nuclear missile with a TABLET!!! come on! and i was thinking the same thing when he got on top of the car to give his speech! freaking people are losing their minds and they just stop to listen to him?!?! come on!!and i totally agree with all on the Felicity character. her and Amell have 0 chemistry i loved her in the beginning but damn its hard for me to watch her in any scene now!what kinda makes me mad is how this show treats comic guys. like we will just buy anything! i mean i can suspend alot of belief on superhero shows but there are somethings i am like GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE WITH THAT!! and it started with Oliver's death and 6oo feet fall and he did whole get back up " tis a flesh wound!" thing!
i will still watch it next season to see if what flash did has any impact ( which i doubt) but it still beat Duck Dynasty so what the hell..but this finale sucked!!!

 

[O'Haire]

i was thinking the same thing when he got on top of the car to give his speech! freaking people are losing their minds and they just stop to listen to him?!?! come on!!

 

[Mike Murdock]

In fairness, they also have to listen to him because he's standing on top of a taxi cab

 

[Xrated48]

Lol

 

[Chip Chipperson]

now I'm no expert, but that scene was one of the worst and most painful displays of acting I have ever seen.

I like Amell, he's a cool guy who genuinely cares about what the fans think, but good god man.

 

[cheungcheung]

At least season 5 will have less "dark vs light" speeches now that Damien is gone (I hope)