Arrow Arrow Season 4 Episode 9: "Dark Waters"

[Herolee10]

Honestly, even though I know without a shadow of doubt that Felicity won't be the one biting the dust this season, I really wish that her character would be written off the show.

She has just become intolerable to watch. I hate how they make her out to be some big deal for everyone when she really isn't. Her character has the tendency to neuter the likes of Arrow, The Flash, and the Atom.

 

[Boy Scout]

When and where has she been written intolerably, besides the crossover?

 

[Herolee10]

When and where has she been written intolerably, besides the crossover?

"Lost Souls"

And all of Season 3...

I had hoped that she'd be written to go back into being her Seasons 1 & 2 Version, but every time some form of drama pops up, she becomes an instant #$%#.

And I really hate on how it's blatant that the producers cater to her crazy ass fans by making her look like a badass in her own right when she's the farthest from it.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Felicity has been great this season, this whole idea that a woman having opinions and emotions that don't just fit with her man's making her b**ch is so wide of the mark IMO.

 

[Snow Queen]

Outside of the crossover, I've liked her fine this season. The crossover though...that was some season 3 stuff right there.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I SAW the trailer on my instagram .....

and for that reason , i am voting a 1.

does ANYONE ELSE remember when the next episode trailers WOULD KEEP YOU GUESSING .....next weeks episode is officially my hated episode cus who ever greenlit it has ZERO sense of what the word surprise means
>___________>
YOU DONT GIVE THE FRAKKIN PUNCHLINE AWAY IN THE EFFING TRAILER .... and no one saw olly getting stabbed and falling in the FRAKKIN TRAILER >___<


*we never saw dax die in the trailer for her final episode, we never saw clark kill zod in L&C trailers or odo leave in the finale for DS9s trailer , this is all im saying*




IM GONNA PUT THE FOLLOWING IN THE SPOILER....

Spoiler

since MALCOM has savage's ashes , that is a strong hint that he either FIXED the hottub or found another jacuzzi .

so i am guessing that when felicity dies ,we will get her back via malcom in the finale this season .

Yeah, I know. I hate how I'm always forced to watch scenes from next week episode!

 

[Boy Scout]

"Lost Souls"

The episode with her mom? She was fine there. She and Oliver ended up talking about their problems like adults.

And all of Season 3...

I'm specifically referring to what we've seen of her so far in season four.

I had hoped that she'd be written to go back into being her Seasons 1 & 2 Version...

She has.

 

[Herolee10]

Felicity has been great this season, this whole idea that a woman having opinions and emotions that don't just fit with her man's making her b**ch is so wide of the mark IMO.

The episode with her mom? She was fine there. She and Oliver ended up talking about their problems like adults.



I'm specifically referring to what we've seen of her so far in season four.



She has.

Maybe I am overreacting a little bit.

And for the record, it's not that I'm against the notion that female characters have emotions and their own opinions. It's really more about how Felicity's character has been used for these "emotional" scenes since Season 3.

I mean ever since Season 3 it was all about her needs and feelings about Oliver, which (intentional or not) resulted in other people getting caught in the crossfire of her snarky attitude.

And I get the whole "identity crisis" thing in "Lost Souls", but I feel like the writers should have executed that arc in a different way. I honestly can't remember the last time where when Felicity was having her own issues, she thought about how someone else was feeling as opposed to thinking only about how she was feeling.

She comes off as selfish in these scenes and given on how she's a major character in the show, it weighs the entertainment value down a lot.

The Crossover was probably the biggest reminder of how crappy Felicity's character has regressed to since Season 3, which really reminds me that the show isn't capable of writing Felicity's character well whenever she's having an emotional arc/scene.

I mean the female characters on "Peggy Carter" were/are written SO MUCH better than most of the female characters in this universe, which is so ironic considering the fact that Andrew Kreisberg is married to one of the show's producers. He can't get a tip from her on how to write these characters better?

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don't see her as being selfish in any of those situations, she is a regular girl trying to get used to the crazy world she exists in while dating a guy who can't stop keeping secrets.

 

[Herolee10]

I don't see her as being selfish in any of those situations, she is a regular girl trying to get used to the crazy world she exists in while dating a guy who can't stop keeping secrets.

Curious, since I don'† remember reading your reaction on the scene in particular, but what were your thoughts then on how things were played out in "Legends of Yesterday" when Felicity confronted Oliver about him having a son?

Did you think that she was bring unreasonable there? Granted, Oliver did bury himself in the ground a bit by continuing to lie, but didn't he have a right to have some time alone in processing things out before he could share it with her?

Maybe it's my understanding of how relationships are supposed to work, but I didn't realize that by not telling your loved one something, it automatically meant that you didn't love them since that seems to be a card that characters used in these shows.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Curious, since I don'† remember reading your reaction on the scene in particular, but what were your thoughts then on how things were played out in "Legends of Yesterday" when Felicity confronted Oliver about him having a son?

Did you think that she was bring unreasonable there? Granted, Oliver did bury himself in the ground a bit by continuing to lie, but didn't he have a right to have some time alone in processing things out before he could share it with her?

Maybe it's my understanding of how relationships are supposed to work, but I didn't realize that by not telling your loved one something, it automatically meant that you didn't love them since that seems to be a card that characters used in these shows.

My view then and now was that Oliver doesn't have the cache to ask that of her, he told her no more secrets after the ones he continuously kept hurt people close to him time and again, yet the first big thing that comes up he lies straight to her face, to me she was right to be angry as that was annoying season 3 Oliver who is supposedly changing how he does things.

 

[Herolee10]

My view then and now was that Oliver doesn't have the cache to ask that of her, he told her no more secrets after the ones he continuously kept hurt people close to him time and again, yet the first big thing that comes up he lies straight to her face, to me she was right to be angry as that was annoying season 3 Oliver who is supposedly changing how he does things.

I do agree that Oliver didn't make the situation any better by lying, but I do believe that he had every right to at least have a moment to process the revelation of having a son to himself.

And if I'm not mistaken, Oliver gave Felicity time and space to work out her issues in "Lost Souls" without pulling the "If you Love me, you'd tell me everything that was going on in your head" ultimatum.

I mean Felicity already figured out that Oliver had a son, courtesy of backing Barry into a corner for that information. I feel like she should have been considerate and given Oliver some time to himself to process that. It's what adults do and it's what she should have been written to do imho.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I do agree that Oliver didn't make the situation any better by lying, but I do believe that he had every right to at least have a moment to process the revelation of having a son to himself.

And if I'm not mistaken, Oliver gave Felicity time and space to work out her issues in "Lost Souls" without pulling the "If you Love me, you'd tell me everything that was going on in your head" ultimatum.

I mean Felicity already figured out that Oliver had a son, courtesy of backing Barry into a corner for that information. I feel like she should have been considerate and given Oliver some time to himself to process that. It's what adults do and it's what she should have been written to do imho.

The difference to me is that Oliver has no reason to distrust her and knows dating him has a LOT of baggage, so him being understanding of that made sense. On the reverse side of things Oliver's continuously bad choice making, lying and secret keeping doesn't afford him the same.

 

[zenith16]

yeah he did vow no more secrets and that has done the most damage for him when ever he done it.

I remember when he broke his vow of no killing and peoplefrom the fan base were on him about that . But he put him self in the worst position to avoid it in deep cover where he had no back up with in the league and his only allie was malcom who couldn't get in side there and isn't trust table .


Yet people from the fan base have been on him about it since. this how ever the secret keeping which has don him no good since he picked up the habbit. he can control thing better here un like the deep cover into the leagues event .

So this is really something he's in control of and understandably so, it make sense. how ever felicity isn't in the clear ether(technically) what she did is wrong no doubt. But the time line is erased . so things won't turn out the same and her sin isn't there any more conveniently. yes but he's at fault currently.


The current time line is a do over and the only one committing the mistake currently is Oliver with the secrets. Oliver was black maled though but I kinda under stand why the mother did this. she seems to be scared of what Moria told her even though she's dead. but Oliver asked his mom to make go away and then he want after another person close to laruel which was sara when after that event he knew he knocked up that girl and he got mommy involved. it's all him.

he has to learn to stop falling into bad habits

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

[YT]njDzEfCxRnk[/YT]

I don't think this new extended teaser been posted.

 

[Herolee10]

The difference to me is that Oliver has no reason to distrust her and knows dating him has a LOT of baggage, so him being understanding of that made sense. On the reverse side of things Oliver's continuously bad choice making, lying and secret keeping doesn't afford him the same.

So in other words, just because Oliver comes with more baggage, it means that Felicity has more leeway with how she handles thing concerning their relationship? That doesn't like a fair deal if you ask me.

And the point that I was also making is that Felicity already knew the truth about Oliver having a son. Was it really necessary to have her push Oliver against a corner by forcing him to tell her the truth right then and there when the dude just found out himself not too long ago, let alone when they had more pressing things to deal with?

 

[zenith16]

So in other words, just because Oliver comes with more baggage, it means that Felicity has more leeway with how she handles thing concerning their relationship? That doesn't like a fair deal if you ask me.

And the point that I was also making is that Felicity already knew the truth about Oliver having a son. Was it really necessary to have her push Oliver against a corner by forcing him to tell her the truth right then and there when the dude just found out himself not too long ago, let alone when they had more pressing things to deal with?

Nah, she's at fault for being nosy. but sadly the time line where she committed the action doesn't exist any more she's was killed with the rest of central city there. This current time line felicity hasn't committed the act of pushing her self into his busyness and Oliver still committed the same mistake the second time around . and he broke a second vow next to the no more killing withthe deep cover eventwith the league . it was the more recent no more secrets . he was black mailed, yes. but still,it was in the prior time line, where she stepped into something by forcing Barry to show her the file, she is at fault.

They are both equally at fault. there have trust issue's for them both. Along with his bad habits.

 

[Herolee10]

Yeah, I'm not denying that Oliver's innocent in all of this. But I don't think his mistakes entitle Felicity to make and be absolved of them as well.

Normally, I could care less about this type of drama, but it really drains away the excitement from watching the show at times.

I couldn't really enjoy the first Flash episode that introduced Grodd as a villain since they had the whole crap with Iris having a hissy fit with everyone because she felt that Barry had an obligation to tell her the truth simply because of their history together.

At least Iris has been making some progress, what with Barry not being romantically interested in her for the time being and her not going "It's all about me and my problems in Season 2.

 

[zenith16]

Don't worry I'm not saying felicity's absolved. like I said her action before it was erased was just bad and eqaul to Oliver's when it was still there and before every one died.

but currently it's all him now. all before that how ever, they were in equal space of blame.

 

[Boy Scout]

Maybe I am overreacting a little bit.

And for the record, it's not that I'm against the notion that female characters have emotions and their own opinions. It's really more about how Felicity's character has been used for these "emotional" scenes since Season 3.

No worries, man. I never suspected otherwise.

I mean ever since Season 3 it was all about her needs and feelings about Oliver, which (intentional or not) resulted in other people getting caught in the crossfire of her snarky attitude.

The less said about season three, the better.

And I get the whole "identity crisis" thing in "Lost Souls", but I feel like the writers should have executed that arc in a different way.

Fair enough. I thought they did a fine job.

The Crossover was probably the biggest reminder of how crappy Felicity's character has regressed to since Season 3, which really reminds me that the show isn't capable of writing Felicity's character well whenever she's having an emotional arc/scene.

Well, luckily, she hasn't had a lot of those this year.

 

[Omegabat]

There's nothing wrong with Felicity showing emotion and giving her opinions forcefully, or even being in a relationship with Ollie.Felicity's problem is that she's mary sue. People with in the show ship Olcity,villains take orders from Felicity remember Maseo not searching her because she's Felicity? and surprise surprise she had a gun on her,one of them from the future knows her. It's constantly forcing Felicity as this character who has Atom,Flash and GA all falling for her, Laurel last episode said "we all love you for it" ,Samantha said " that's a nice name" and Barry tried to hide the blood test but failed(what's the point of super speed if Felicity can see it?) all this sucking up has gotten on my nerves. We constantly have to be reminded that she's awesome and that she has a great fire with in her and that's she the centre of the DC universe. The worst part of this whole damn thing is that other characters and their plots are sacrificed at the altar of Felicity,characters who actually are important to the DC lore. Felicity is a nobody and it's time Arrow show runners remembered that. Why is it that all these major Green Arrow characters like Roy Harper and Black Canary have been wasted but Felicity continues to be important? why are villains like Ra's and Deathstroke not so subtly shipping Olcity? Olcity shippers can have their ship I have no issue with that but I do have an issue with this character being the Mecca of the Flarrow universe.

 

[JC00]

Just saw a clip from tonight's episode. Gotta say there is going to be some people rolling their eyes at something Felicity does in the episode and it has nothing to do with a olicity drama scene. It is high level deus ex machina stuff.

 

[regnak]

Just saw a clip from tonight's episode. Gotta say there is going to be some people rolling their eyes at something Felicity does in the episode and it has nothing to do with a olicity drama scene. It is high level deus ex machina stuff.

So nothing unusual then.

 

[Boy Scout]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not by any means an expert on technology or hacking, but I've always assumed that a lot of what Felicity does - or, at least, the speed she does it at - is bull****.

 

[luis4u]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not by any means an expert on technology or hacking, but I've always assumed that a lot of what Felicity does - or, at least, the speed she does it at - is bull****.

Atleast is not CSI cringe [YT]/1Y2zo0JN2HE[/YT]