Arrow Arrow season 4 episode 13 "Sins of the Father"

[Slade W]

Personally, I am still enjoying Malcolm, not as much as I did in season 1 and 2, but I am glad that he is still on the show. I think him working with Darhk is the right direction to take the character at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he helps Team arrow before the end of the season though. He is a character that is going to keep swapping sides.

 

[mr. peasant]

The surprise where Nyssa disbands the LOA was a nice touch, because it played into the theme of Nyssa trying to move beyond her father's shadow and put an end to his harmful legacy. Also, from a storytelling perspective, the LOA arc had pretty much run its course in this show, so this was a good way for the writers to get rid of it and move on to something new.

Plus, it now gives the writers easy access to an endless supply of henchmen and villains-of-the-week with a ready, built-in excuse to be as badass as the plot requires - ex-LOA members who have since gone freelance and/or have a grudge against Oliver for ending the organisation.

 

[aNarcHy2day]

The amount of times in the last episode Oliver had to explain to people his stand on Malcolm, I almost felt like he'd be better served if he carried a board around his neck saying "NO, I won't kill Malcolm"! Give that guy a break!

 

[famicommander]

The worst part about him constantly explaining himself is that it still doesn't make sense. Merlyn has murdered hundreds of people, including his own son, but Ollie won't kill him because he thinks maybe one day he could be a good dad? Doesn't murdering your children and brainwashing them to murder their friends pretty much automatically preclude you from being a good dad?

 

[Micromind]

The worst part about him constantly explaining himself is that it still doesn't make sense. Merlyn has murdered hundreds of people, including his own son, but Ollie won't kill him because he thinks maybe one day he could be a good dad? Doesn't murdering your children and brainwashing them to murder their friends pretty much automatically preclude you from being a good dad?

I think that real reason for him not killing Merlyn is that he doesn't know how he will face Thea after that.

Ollie knows that Merlyn and himself are the only members of family Thea has, after killing her Father, she will hate him.

 

[Micromind]

One thing I was not happy about this episode is that Meryln is the arch enemy of Green Arrow in comics, who is known for his archery skills, and now the he has only one hand !

How will he use a bow and arrow ?

 

[Slade W]

One thing I was not happy about this episode is that Meryln is the arch enemy of Green Arrow in comics, who is known for his archery skills, and now the he has only one hand !

How will he use a bow and arrow ?

I am sure it will be replaced, either by magic or technology.

 

[famicommander]

I think that real reason for him not killing Merlyn is that he doesn't know how he will face Thea after that.

Ollie knows that Merlyn and himself are the only members of family Thea has, after killing her Father, she will hate him.

I don't buy that at all. Thea would have no right to be mad at Oliver for killing a genocidal maniac, and Thea at this point has no reason to be attached to Merlyn. The guy essentially murdered her adoptive father, murdered one of her brothers, and tried to murder her other brother (multiple times). And he brainwashed her into murdering a friend for his own personal gain. Not to mention the hundreds of other people he killed, or the fact that he just pointed a magical supervillain right at her nephew (she doesn't know that part yet, but still).

 

[Slade W]

I don't buy that at all. Thea would have no right to be mad at Oliver for killing a genocidal maniac, and Thea at this point has no reason to be attached to Merlyn. The guy essentially murdered her adoptive father, murdered one of her brothers, and tried to murder her other brother (multiple times). And he brainwashed her into murdering a friend for his own personal gain. Not to mention the hundreds of other people he killed, or the fact that he just pointed a magical supervillain right at her nephew (she doesn't know that part yet, but still).

You have made good points there, but he still is her father. He also helped train her and he made her mentally stronger after she felt vulnerable in season 2. It is by no means a normal or healthy relationship, but family is family. I mean, if such a relationship existed in real life, I would think it would be ridiculous, obviously. But I can buy it as a relationship on TV, on this type of show. I have seen much crazier things on TV and in movies. These characters are not normal people either, that do not react rationally or in a normal manner to things.

The fact that Thea is reliant on him suggests to me both that he has manipulated her well, and that she is also still quite vulnerable and weak and needs support and someone to turn to, especially seeing that her mother and other father are dead. If Malcolm is gone, then all she has left is Oliver. Despite the things that you mentioned (which were good points), she must also feel that Malcolm does care for her and wants what is best for her. I will not deny that there is delusion on her part, but I find that believable as there can be delusion with kids that have bad parental figures, hoping that they care for them and want what is best for them or that the parental figure will change, even though that is not the case.

 

[SelinaKitten]

Am i an awful person for laughing out loud when Malcolm lost a hand?

I was also happy about Nyssa dissolving the league, she's my favourite character on the show and I was happy she chose to be better than her father

I think that real reason for him not killing Merlyn is that he doesn't know how he will face Thea after that.

Ollie knows that Merlyn and himself are the only members of family Thea has, after killing her Father, she will hate him.

Ollie is a selfish and really awful person so I can believe he'd let a mass murderer and psychopath run loose just to spare himself guilty feelings and losing Thea's love

Ollie's feelings on killing bad guys aren't "I won't kill" or "I'll only kill if i have to" they are "I'll kill if and when it suits me personally"

 

[Slade W]

Am i an awful person for laughing out loud when Malcolm lost a hand?

I was also happy about Nyssa dissolving the league, she's my favourite character on the show and I was happy she chose to be better than her father



Ollie is a selfish and really awful person so I can believe he'd let a mass murderer and psychopath run loose just to spare himself guilty feelings and losing Thea's love

Ollie's feelings on killing bad guys aren't "I won't kill" or "I'll only kill if i have to" they are "I'll kill if and when it suits me personally"

Can you give me a recent example of this?

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I was also happy about Nyssa dissolving the league, she's my favourite character on the show and I was happy she chose to be better than her father

It was the single most dumbest thing any character on this show has ever done. Hate them or love them the League of Assassins kept groups bent on world domination (like HIVE) in check. I wasn't a fan of having someone unstable like Merlyn in charge, but destroying the whole organization?

She created a power vaccum where someone a lot worse than the League (who pretty much bullies, global scale bullies) can step in. All so she can have warm fuzzy feelings inside.

 

[Fincher]

It was the single most dumbest thing any character on this show has ever done. Hate them or love them the League of Assassins kept groups bent on world domination (like HIVE) in check. I wasn't a fan of having someone unstable like Merlyn in charge, but destroying the whole organization?

She created a power vaccum where someone a lot worse than the League (who pretty much bullies, global scale bullies) can step in. All so she can have warm fuzzy feelings inside.

The League of Assassins which was going to destroy Star City as a test of Oliver and then was going to destroy it out of revenge? And whose word do we have that they keep things in check? Malcolm Merlyn, whose idea of keeping things in check is destroying The Glades, the same guy who cares so much about stopping the League's enemies that he put a young boy in Damian Darhk's crosshairs, giving him leverage over Team Arrow, out of revenge. The man is a lunatic. Him vouching for the League's efforts means absolutely nothing.

Now Nyssa could have pushed the League in a better direction, but if some of their members are there not out of choice like Oliver was supposed to be, then it would be wrong to use them like that. Members who wish to ally themselves with Nyssa out of their own choice potentially still can, and given that there were members who helped her secure leadership I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

 

[mr. peasant]

What's possibly more damaging though is that she did unleash upon the world hundreds, if not thousands, of highly skilled professional killers; who are now free to chase their own agendas a la Merlyn or hire their skills out to the highest bidders. Just because they lost their little Mickey Mouse Club doesn't mean they sudden lose their skills.

 

[the dmg]

Sorry about the bump, but playing catch up with tons of shows and binged on them over the weekend.

This episode had the potential to be frustrating, but I really think it was handled rather well with how Ollie attempted to tackle it where everyone comes out gaining something without the potential all out war that was teased earlier in the episode. What I liked as well was this was something Ollie was struggling with in terms of his son's mother and Felicity.

Speaking of Felicity, I think she handled her father's "changed ways" pretty well with her test

As awesome as Barrowman is, his Merlyn character gets away with some really ****** things that Ollie is willing to look past due to being someone important to Thea. He's not subtle about knowing Ollie has a child, and using that against Ollie.

Nyssa went a bit overboard with her hatred of Merlyn being the Demon's Head with her attack on the city and refusing to help Thea when they've done the same. Laurel tried her best, but it didn't work in swaying Nyssa from being so petty. She did a good thing disbanding the LoA, IMO.

End fight was a bit too short, but Ollie figured out a solution without costing the lives of Nyssa or Merlyn. If this doesn't put Merlyn back into full villain mode, especially telling Dahrk about William, then not sure what will. Merlyn has a twisted sense of love, but his ultimate gains from it are to exploit because he's a megalomaniac with a insatiable thirst for power. Add to all that he is in possession of Savage's ashses, he's looking to be in full heel mode.