Comics ASM 535 previews

[ragingdemon155]

You know one more thing....

Spoiler

In this issue Tony basically threatens Peter face to face. He pretty much tells Peter that he'll lock him up for the rest of his life in the Negative Zone if Peter goes against him. Even knowing all that...Peter still does it. Smart decision? No. But damn, that was so true to character of "Spider-man". Good to see he's finally back to his senses and going against all odds for what he believes in.

 

[shinlyle]

I agree. This is how Pete should've been from the start of all this registration BS.

but hey it's apparent that the writers (or marvel in general) are finally gonna take note that we (The fans) aren't too proud as to how our Spider-Phile has been treated as of late.

But from those two pages, especially Pete's interaction with Stark himself...are seeming to fall more in place with his personality...but not altogether which is still a cheap shot.

I know. That's my main problem with this whole thing. I would have much preferred Peter being wary of Stark's help, accepting it anyway, watching him like a hawk, Stark finally earning Peter's trust(as well as the readers'), and then Stark betraying Peter (and the readers). That would have been much more suspenseful, and it would have led to us understanding why Peter chose to trust him so blindly, as opposed to taking a suit more advanced than the entirety of NASA.

I've read CW 1 through 4...and Shinyle...You were right (laugh it up old man).

Dude...I'm not gonna laugh. I'm not that bitter, despite how I may come off...

It's dispicable how they went about it, the idea in itself couldh ave made for a prolific event. But the writers assed it up, rushing, trying to mimic DC's talent for making over the top, super-serious stories that have a comic-verse wide effect.

Hopefully by the end of CW and the War at Home..Peter would have returned to the Web-Headed arse hole we all know and love.

Amen. I'm hoping that, by the end of all this, things will be made right. Spidey's unmasking was handled as an added shock-tactic and nothing more. It really just served to make CW#2 a high-seller, and that's about it. I would have preferred having Iron Man's unmasking in the pages of CW#2, then see Peter's ID leaked into the media by Stark or something as Peter begins to think about switching sides. It would have the same effect, and Peter's whole "Power & Responsibility" motto wouldn't feel as if it was blatantly disregarded the way it was.

That's just my opinion , of course.

 

[shinlyle]

You know one more thing....

Spoiler

In this issue Tony basically threatens Peter face to face. He pretty much tells Peter that he'll lock him up for the rest of his life in the Negative Zone if Peter goes against him. Even knowing all that...Peter still does it. Smart decision? No. But damn, that was so true to character of "Spider-man". Good to see he's finally back to his senses and going against all odds for what he believes in.

Well, if that means the Spidey vs. Iron Man fight is in the next issue, then it looks like ASM may finally get some of my money. I'm really kind of hoping it happens in ASM, seeing as how that is SPIDEY'S book, and CW is more about Iron Man and Cap. That means that the fight will probably be more Tony-Centric. I want to see the fight feature Spider-Man using his brains and his brawn to best Tony. I really want Tony to see that he is Peter's lesser when it comes to fighting. It would truly make my day if Peter used a sonic-disruptor or some other sort of device he rigged in order the short-out Tony's armor.

 

[MaxCarnage]

Yeah, I honestly think that the best fight between Tony and Pete would be one where Pete had reverse-engineered the costume that Tony had given him to and figured out the technology, and instead of an out-and-out brawl, he just hit a button and Tony's Iron Man suit just shut down. He would be trapped in his own armor. He would be humiliated by Spider-Man, and Pete would never even have to throw a punch.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

That won't happen. I'm pretty sure Peter's about to get spanked unfortunately enough.

And Reed's a fan of McCarthy? Yeah, this story's officially out of control.

 

[shinlyle]

So help me, if Spider-Man fights Iron Man while wearing that Iron Spidey suit, I'm gonna call "foul".

It would make more of a point if Peter Whooped Tony without the aide of that suit. It would be a nice little "I don't need your tech to whoop yor ass" moment.

Should he wear it....and I hope he doesn't, then I want to see Peter do as MaxCarnage said and reverse engineer it, and take out all of the bugs and booby-traps that Stark has undoubtedly hidden within it. If Peter fights him in that suit and gets taken down by Stark at the push of a button, I'm going to go ape s***. Peter should be smarter than that.

 

[The Joker]

This issue was worth the buy, just to see Peter finally grow a pair of balls and a couple of brain cells.

 

[spahn]

This issue was worth the buy, just to see Peter finally grow a pair of balls and a couple of brain cells.

i agree.

Spoiler

and do any of you think that reed richards might start thinking about switching sides after the conversation peter had with him. that was great how peter said i would of liked your uncle but you loved him.

 

[NateGray]

But the problem is that Peter knows better than to trust someone so implicitly. And what Stark has "done" for Peter's family isn't much. Let them live in Stark towers? That's been par for the course of being an Avenger lo these past 43 years. Made him a new suit of armor? Well, we know how "generous" an offer that was.

The thing is that Peter was always so self-sufficient that he never needed anyone to help him, and that kept him independent both physically and mentally.

What you're talking about is naivete. I've been getting into debates with folks alot over the past months about Gwen's death aned its impact. And the one thing people keep using as a justification was Peter becoming "A MAN". Peter's child-like trust of Stark doesn't reflect this. He's more naive and pliable now than when he was a teenager.



It isn't understandable at all, when you consider that the events that justify it have NEVER happened in the history of the Marvel Universe, until this storyline, and only exist to justify this storyline. Spider-Man for example has existed and functioned successful since he was 15. No registration, no training, no nothing. So has Ironman. So has the FF. So have the Avengers.



Bottomline- when the wrong people know Peter's ID someone innocent ALWAYS DIES. ALWAYS. Peter would never voluntarily surrender that one bit of protection for his loved ones. And considering that Avengers HQ has been breached in the past, MJ and May being there would be little comfort.



But here's the problem that's existed at Marvel for too many years now. The audience shouldn't be ahead of the main character. These storylines are poorly written in that we know the inevitable conclusion long before it happens. Often before the storyline begins. This shouldn't be the case. In a well-written story, we journey with the character to the conclusion, and we should learn the truth along with them. Peter is privy to all the info we are, yet it takes him months to figure it out. That's why he's a dumbass. If anything he should figure it out before we do.

Excellent post.

 

[shinlyle]

This issue was worth the buy, just to see Peter finally grow a pair of balls and a couple of brain cells.

So you're telling me I should buy this issue? Hmm...I may actually have to, if it swayed you.

I'll read it, and if Peter comes across as a total bad-ass, then I might give up my 2.99 to JMS and the gang.

Still wish Garney would get his act together, though...

 

[crivelliman]

Thanks largely in part to the events in this issue, I have a theory regarding Spider-Man's true place in the Civil War.

Spoiler

Now that he's seen the prison, perhaps with his unique understanding of the inner workings of Stark's operations (though apparently, in spite of being Stark's number two dude, his apparent knowledge of Stark's operations is next to nothing), Spidey's role in the CW may not be terribly huge until the end. I picture a final battle going in Tony's favor, until Spider-Man shows up at the zero hour with a ridiculously huge army of un-registered, formerly-imprisoned heroes. Like the calvary.

 

[The Joker]

i agree.

Spoiler

and do any of you think that reed richards might start thinking about switching sides after the conversation peter had with him. that was great how peter said i would of liked your uncle but you loved him.

Spoiler

Yes, I reckon Reed is next to wise up after Peter. Though you'd think Sue and Ben leaving, not to mention what happened to Johnny would have wised him up. But then Marvel's smartest heros are being written like idiots in this storyline

So you're telling me I should buy this issue? Hmm...I may actually have to, if it swayed you.

I wouldn't have even TOUCHED it had I not heard that Peter finally wises up in this one. So I picked it up. Peter finally sees what was blatantly obvious.

I'll read it, and if Peter comes across as a total bad-ass,

I wouldn't say he comes across as a bad ass. He comes across as a guy with an ounce of sense. Something which has been missing from his character for a loooooooooooong time.

Next issue will hopefully show him as a bad ass, by giving Tony Stark a severe ass kicking.

 

[spahn]

Spoiler

Yes, I reckon Reed is next to wise up after Peter. Though you'd think Sue and Ben leaving, not to mention what happened to Johnny would have wised him up. But then Marvel's smartest heros are being written like idiots in this storyline

You know, i thought the same thing as i was reading this.

Spoiler

You would of thought that his wife leaving (although they have had tons of problems lately) and his brother-in-law in the hospital and friend leaving the country would of knocked some sense into him.

 

[Captivated]

I liked how Peter's silence, his lack of quips, as they approached the "prison" made Tony a little nervous... and obviously suspicious.

Peter caught Tony's subtle threats... now when he said, I'll take care of May and MJ, it just made Peter freak out. But I think his actions may have been too hasty... he should have planned better, knowing how "[SIZE=-1]thorough" Tony can be.[/SIZE]

I had the same gut reaction as most of you... that locking heroes up forever is over the top. And Peter - now that he has more clarity - is going to fight it. And I always like it when he steps up and gets tough...

But then I mulled it over and had questions...

What is it about "registering" that is so freaking BAD that you would rather spend your life in prison? Do we actually know?

What comes with registering? Thus far I have heard, training, accountability, collaboration, more intelligence, support, responsibility, COMPENSATION, authority, protection from lawsuits, legitimacy... Oh yeah, that sounds SO offensive!

Are the refusers really saying if I can't do WHAT I want, WHEN I want, and be beholden to NOBODY, I'd rather rot in jail. Huh??? Who has that kind of freedom?!

(I know a bunch of you probably don't care about these questions... just let the fighting begin! Right?)

Seems there are TWO kinds of refusers... the ones I mentioned above, who just don't want the accountability, and the ones who don't want to enforce it. Seems the main thing that has stirred "rebellion" amongst the heroes has been the assignment of going after other heroes who don't want to register. And surely there was a better way to roll this thing out, than what they have been doing... which (unlike the Act itself), doesn't make much sense.

Before all out WAR, why didn't they try education about what it entails... time to work the "bugs" out (there are always bugs), more time to comply, different forms of pressure... I know registering is different, but how is it any different than requiring drivers to have a drivers license? What is really SO offensive about registering that you'd rather DIE than do it???

And why ARE they getting so TOUGH with people who are NOT typically law breakers? They are not terrorists, or villains, or any more a danger to the public than registered heroes are... so this also makes no sense. These people are considered heroes for the most part, but the ENFORCEMENT of the Act got too extreme, too quickly and has just spawned and fueled the rebellion. Think about it. It's not the SHRA that Peter is getting ready to fight, it's the enforcement of it.

But then I have to ask... is this incarceration really that [SIZE=-1]egregious when the prisioners have a couple of ways out available to them at ANY time? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they REGISTER they are out, right?

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And if registering is reasonable... why not? [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And if they don't like the new rules, after registering, don't they also have the option of QUITTING? They don't HAVE to use their powers, they just need to be registered if they are going to, right?

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And BTW - I don't really see the parallel between this and the Mccarthism that blacklisted people. Again, we are required to "register," i.e. have a license/certificate to carry a gun, drive a car, practice medicine, teach school, be in law enforcement, etc... and if you insisted on running around doing many of these things WITHOUT the proper certification or authority, you probably would be PUT IN JAIL too. That's a better parallel.

ALLLLL that said, the story is getting nail-bitting....
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[Mara Jane]

You know, i thought the same thing as i was reading this.

Spoiler

You would of thought that his wife leaving (although they have had tons of problems lately) and his brother-in-law in the hospital and friend leaving the country would of knocked some sense into him.

Spoiler

Not to mention that his mortal enemy, Dr. Doom, is the definition of fascist. Aren't we supposed to be defined by who our enemies are? At this rate, Dr. Doom should be buddy-buddies with Reed.

 

[Mara Jane]

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And BTW - I don't really see the parallel between this and the Mccarthism that blacklisted people. Again, we are required to "register," i.e. have a license/certificate to carry a gun, drive a car, practice medicine, teach school, be in law enforcement, etc... and if you insisted on running around doing many of these things WITHOUT the proper certification or authority, you probably would be PUT IN JAIL too. That's a better parallel.

ALLLLL that said, the story is getting nail-bitting....

In the McCarthy era, turning people in may have been considered a civic duty, but that didn't make it right to point fingers at people. Doing so ruined peoples lives. Could you live with yourself knowing that a person would never be able to work and support his/her children simply because you pointed at him/her and said he was a Communist (regardless of whether s/he really was)?

The point is that you may have the law on your side, but not morality. And the same applies in this case. Reed feels that he's obeying the law - even if it's a bad law - and as a result he's destroying innocent lives (remember, heroes have families, too) to do it. All right, maybe they're not all so innocent, but most heroes are good people who have bled for the sake of humanity. And they deserve better. As far as I'm concerned, they should be governed by Good Samaritan laws and exempt from lawsuits or prosecution because they attempt to perform good deeds in good faith. This does depend on the situation, though.

 

[hippy fascist]

Spoiler

Now that he's seen the prison, perhaps with his unique understanding of the inner workings of Stark's operations (though apparently, in spite of being Stark's number two dude, his apparent knowledge of Stark's operations is next to nothing), Spidey's role in the CW may not be terribly huge until the end. I picture a final battle going in Tony's favor, until Spider-Man shows up at the zero hour with a ridiculously huge army of un-registered, formerly-imprisoned heroes. Like the calvary.

Spoiler

I could see that happening but not spider-man doing the leading. I think it's fairly obvious that cap's gonna get captured soon. Way I see it playing out is cap leading the army since he has that skeleton key to the prison that zemo gave him in thunderbolts. Spidey, I could see acting as stand in general for cap after he get's captured. This has never been about cap vs iron-man. It's about pete getting his dignity back and taking it to stark. Stark with his superior tech will win initially but then we will see cap riding in with the cavalry (the ultimate symbol of american pride in marvel acting as facilitator to one of the iconic american images is perfect) So yeah basically pete's spent time being stark's ***** now he's gonna be cap's deputy and take over while cap's in prison. Who else could honestly lead the anti's?

 

[pussywillow1972]

In the McCarthy era, turning people in may have been considered a civic duty, but that didn't make it right to point fingers at people. Doing so ruined peoples lives. Could you live with yourself knowing that a person would never be able to work and support his/her children simply because you pointed at him/her and said he was a Communist (regardless of whether s/he really was)?

The point is that you may have the law on your side, but not morality. And the same applies in this case. Reed feels that he's obeying the law - even if it's a bad law - and as a result he's destroying innocent lives (remember, heroes have families, too) to do it. All right, maybe they're not all so innocent, but most heroes are good people who have bled for the sake of humanity. And they deserve better. As far as I'm concerned, they should be governed by Good Samaritan laws and exempt from lawsuits or prosecution because they attempt to perform good deeds in good faith. This does depend on the situation, though.

As an aside and completely off topic, history has proved that Joe McCarthy was actually right and there were communists infiltrating government and working for the Soviets in an effort to undermine the U.S. His efforts got an awful lot of them out in the open and stopped the attempt. I have no idea how the writers could attempt to equate that with what's happening in civil war though. Then again, the story is a bit haphazard with a lot of unexplained details and plot holes. I'll wait until the last issue before I pass final judgement on it though. They may be intentionally leaving those holes early in the story with the intention of filling them by the end. I hope so, anyway.

 

[Captivated]

In the McCarthy era, turning people in may have been considered a civic duty, but that didn't make it right to point fingers at people. Doing so ruined peoples lives. Could you live with yourself knowing that a person would never be able to work and support his/her children simply because you pointed at him/her and said he was a Communist (regardless of whether s/he really was)?

The point is that you may have the law on your side, but not morality.

And the same applies in this case. Reed feels that he's obeying the law - even if it's a bad law - and as a result he's destroying innocent lives (remember, heroes have families, too) to do it. All right, maybe they're not all so innocent, but most heroes are good people who have bled for the sake of humanity. And they deserve better. As far as I'm concerned, they should be governed by Good Samaritan laws and exempt from lawsuits or prosecution because they attempt to perform good deeds in good faith. This does depend on the situation, though.

But my point is, why is registering BAD? These people HAVE a choice, and what is being asked of them (to register) is not unreasonable or evil, so why are they refusing in the first place? They are choosing to take a stand - even if it means distroying themselves and causing their families bereavement - to not register?

I gave many examples of "helping" and "enforcing" vocations that require training, accountability and licensing. And there are SO MANY superpowered beings in this fantasy world, I'm just saying I see the parallel... and it's not illogical that they would fall under the same guidelines. (I just didn't see why they couldn't register as their alter-egos... Spider-Man as Spder-man. As far as the registration should be concerned, THAT was his identity. The one that mattered.)

But, you're right, the enforcement is over the top, and THAT has become the issue.

Here's where I bet I'm different from most here... I'm mainly a Spidey fan that has had all these other characters thrust upon me in this story and I've discovered something... I'm not into team-ups where Spidey is a bit player, and I'm really not into a world so ridiclously FULL of these "heroes" that they are hardly special. There are too many of them!! I'll actually be glad when this story is over so I can forget about them.... I'm just saying that under THESE circumstances I can see where registration is logical. But the violent, swift enforcement of it is NOT.

When there were a few... Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, Dare Devil or the Fantastic Four... I could see the public (most of them) TRUSTING that these exceptional people, who selflessly served the greater good, knew better than most what was right and best.

But good grief - the perception now is that there are so many, and they are NOT all smart or wise and they can inflict GREAT damage, that something needs to be done.

This is not a perfect example, but it has merit... When cars were first invented, there were few and nobody had to have a license. But as traffic increased... regulations evolved. Logical. And I bet compliance was slow... But I also don't remember anyone suggesting that you should be incarcarated for the rest of your life if you drove without one.

 

[Rambo, John J]

I liked how Peter's silence, his lack of quips, as they approached the "prison" made Tony a little nervous... and obviously suspicious.

Peter caught Tony's subtle threats... now when he said, I'll take care of May and MJ, it just made Peter freak out. But I think his actions may have been too hasty... he should have planned better, knowing how "[SIZE=-1]thorough" Tony can be.[/SIZE]

I had the same gut reaction as most of you... that locking heroes up forever is over the top. And Peter - now that he has more clarity - is going to fight it. And I always like it when he steps up and gets tough...

But then I mulled it over and had questions...

What is it about "registering" that is so freaking BAD that you would rather spend your life in prison? Do we actually know?

What comes with registering? Thus far I have heard, training, accountability, collaboration, more intelligence, support, responsibility, COMPENSATION, authority, protection from lawsuits, legitimacy... Oh yeah, that sounds SO offensive!

Are the refusers really saying if I can't do WHAT I want, WHEN I want, and be beholden to NOBODY, I'd rather rot in jail. Huh??? Who has that kind of freedom?!

(I know a bunch of you probably don't care about these questions... just let the fighting begin! Right?)

Seems there are TWO kinds of refusers... the ones I mentioned above, who just don't want the accountability, and the ones who don't want to enforce it. Seems the main thing that has stirred "rebellion" amongst the heroes has been the assignment of going after other heroes who don't want to register. And surely there was a better way to roll this thing out, than what they have been doing... which (unlike the Act itself), doesn't make much sense.

Before all out WAR, why didn't they try education about what it entails... time to work the "bugs" out (there are always bugs), more time to comply, different forms of pressure... I know registering is different, but how is it any different than requiring drivers to have a drivers license? What is really SO offensive about registering that you'd rather DIE than do it???

And why ARE they getting so TOUGH with people who are NOT typically law breakers? They are not terrorists, or villains, or any more a danger to the public than registered heroes are... so this also makes no sense. These people are considered heroes for the most part, but the ENFORCEMENT of the Act got too extreme, too quickly and has just spawned and fueled the rebellion. Think about it. It's not the SHRA that Peter is getting ready to fight, it's the enforcement of it.

But then I have to ask... is this incarceration really that [SIZE=-1]egregious when the prisioners have a couple of ways out available to them at ANY time? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they REGISTER they are out, right?

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And if registering is reasonable... why not? [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And if they don't like the new rules, after registering, don't they also have the option of QUITTING? They don't HAVE to use their powers, they just need to be registered if they are going to, right?

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And BTW - I don't really see the parallel between this and the Mccarthism that blacklisted people. Again, we are required to "register," i.e. have a license/certificate to carry a gun, drive a car, practice medicine, teach school, be in law enforcement, etc... and if you insisted on running around doing many of these things WITHOUT the proper certification or authority, you probably would be PUT IN JAIL too. That's a better parallel.

ALLLLL that said, the story is getting nail-bitting....
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These points have niggled at me as well. For that matter, once a non registrant is caught and incarcerated, don't they become registered by default??

Still, i'm really digging this serial as a whole now. Roll on ASM 536.

 

[Dragon]

What is it about "registering" that is so freaking BAD that you would rather spend your life in prison? Do we actually know?

What comes with registering? Thus far I have heard, training, accountability, collaboration, more intelligence, support, responsibility, COMPENSATION, authority, protection from lawsuits, legitimacy... Oh yeah, that sounds SO offensive!

The down-side of registration-

1. Life is monitored and controlled.
2. Family/friends innocent bystanders endangered due to public identity
3. Eliminates the possibility of any normalcy. Escape from being a superhero.
4. Subject to governmental scrutiny, policy and corruption.
5. As CW is displaying, those leading registration cannot be trusted. So all those registered are vulnerable.

Again I ask- when in Marvel history has such a thing been necessary until the contrived scenarios of CW? Those who go out and perform as superheroes generally train and prepare themselves simply because not being able will likely result in your own demise.

As for the possibility of the deaths of bystanders- that possibility exists whether the heroes intervene or not, and in fact is more likely without the heroes' intervention. Police and military certainly can't handle superhuman threats.

Also, the randomness of the attacks is better handled when the heroes are free to move without be "stationed". How often has Peter merely happened upon crimes being commited? A government agency can hardly monitor every part of the globe. And, speaking internationally, quite often other countries would not want the US and their superheroes to become involved. While abroad, heroes working as free agents can function more effectively than if they had to be guided by an enforcement agency.

And characters like Spidey (until being written as a moron and lackey) simply didn't want to be under anyone's thumb, and that was what made him a great character. He's simply not as good a character now as when he was a loner.

 

[NateGray]

The down-side of registration-

1. Life is monitored and controlled.
2. Family/friends innocent bystanders endangered due to public identity
3. Eliminates the possibility of any normalcy. Escape from being a superhero.
4. Subject to governmental scrutiny, policy and corruption.
5. As CW is displaying, those leading registration cannot be trusted. So all those registered are vulnerable.

Again I ask- when in Marvel history has such a thing been necessary until the contrived scenarios of CW? Those who go out and perform as superheroes generally train and prepare themselves simply because not being able will likely result in your own demise.

As for the possibility of the deaths of bystanders- that possibility exists whether the heroes intervene or not, and in fact is more likely without the heroes' intervention. Police and military certainly can't handle superhuman threats.

Also, the randomness of the attacks is better handled when the heroes are free to move without be "stationed". How often has Peter merely happened upon crimes being commited? A government agency can hardly monitor every part of the globe. And, speaking internationally, quite often other countries would not want the US and their superheroes to become involved. While abroad, heroes working as free agents can function more effectively than if they had to be guided by an enforcement agency.

And characters like Spidey (until being written as a moron and lackey) simply didn't want to be under anyone's thumb, and that was what made him a great character. He's simply not as good a character now as when he was a loner.

excellent post

 

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

The issue is that if you register, you HAVE to work for the government, there is no choice there. You have to work for them because using your powers without their say so is against the law, and I think that's where the problem lies with a lot of heroes.

 

[Captivated]

The down-side of registration-

1. Life is monitored and controlled.
2. Family/friends innocent bystanders endangered due to public identity
3. Eliminates the possibility of any normalcy. Escape from being a superhero.
4. Subject to governmental scrutiny, policy and corruption.
5. As CW is displaying, those leading registration cannot be trusted. So all those registered are vulnerable.

Again I ask- when in Marvel history has such a thing been necessary until the contrived scenarios of CW? Those who go out and perform as superheroes generally train and prepare themselves simply because not being able will likely result in your own demise.

Well, there you go... this whole thing is a little contrived. It's got some characters behaving out of character so they can have "sides" and hero vs. hero brawls, with some bias political commentary thrown in to boot.

This is a fantasy world with enough relatable realism to make it compelling... and realistically, with SO MANY superpowered beings running around - and obviously not ALL of them wise enough to make good decisions - the government trying to control them as a security/law enforcement "branch" is probable. I don't like it (but then, I don't like having so many "heores" running around), I just think it's realistic.

But where this breaks down (and gets contrived to obviously produce the above mentioned sides/fights/commentary) is in these story points:

1. If this is superhero registration, WHY can't they just register with their superhero IDs? If this ACT is to regulate heroes on "active duty," what does it matter who they are "off the clock," especially when REVEALING that information can a.) put families in danger and b.) lead to LOW hero compliance and c.) isn't really relevant to the job they do in costume - which is what everyone is interested in.

2. Why is Tony being such a jerk? If he has so much pull and power, why didn't he [SIZE=-1]negotiate[/SIZE] for a better act? He knew what the issues would be. He's lived them. But he let provisions pass that he had to know would be deal killers for many, and then did a lousy job at communicating what the benefits would be.

3. The enforcement of the act is so over the top it's ridiculous

As for the possibility of the deaths of bystanders- that possibility exists whether the heroes intervene or not, and in fact is more likely without the heroes' intervention. Police and military certainly can't handle superhuman threats.

Also, the randomness of the attacks is better handled when the heroes are free to move without be "stationed". How often has Peter merely happened upon crimes being commited? A government agency can hardly monitor every part of the globe. And, speaking internationally, quite often other countries would not want the US and their superheroes to become involved. While abroad, heroes working as free agents can function more effectively than if they had to be guided by an enforcement agency.

I don't know that we've been told exactly HOW they will work any differently... I was assuming that they might be given protocols to follow (like don't move in on explosive supervillains if you're next door to an elementary school...), they could get intelligence and direction to a situation that they are uniquely needed to handle (because authorities now have a way to reach them), and possible back-up if needed (they can be working more like a team). Otherwise, they are still going to be reacting to what crosses their paths...

And characters like Spidey (until being written as a moron and lackey) simply didn't want to be under anyone's thumb, and that was what made him a great character. He's simply not as good a character now as when he was a loner.

Well, I don't see the moron angle... (except in New Avengers, but that's a different story) and who DOES want to be under anyone's thumb? But face it, none of us gets to do what we want, when we want, without consequences.

I love that Peter trys to do the best he can with the gift/curse he was given... that includes struggling with WHO he is responsible to... himself, his family, strangers who cross his path, the general public... And if something like this ACT proved to give him the potential to help MORE people than his random life ever could, will his call to great responsibility compel him to comply?

I have these questions and I can see the logic... but I don't really want a change. I'm not into team-ups, unless Spidey is the star of the show (the Hydra arc being a great example). And for that reason, I'll be glad when this is over...

 

[NateGray]

Well, there you go... this whole thing is a little contrived. It's got some characters behaving out of character so they can have "sides" and hero vs. hero brawls, with some bias political commentary thrown in to boot.

This is a fantasy world with enough relatable realism to make it compelling... and realistically, with SO MANY superpowered beings running around - and obviously not ALL of them wise enough to make good decisions - the government trying to control them as a security/law enforcement "branch" is probable. I don't like it (but then, I don't like having so many "heores" running around), I just think it's realistic.

But where this breaks down (and gets contrived to obviously produce the above mentioned sides/fights/commentary) is in these story points:

1. If this is superhero registration, WHY can't they just register with their superhero IDs? If this ACT is to regulate heroes on "active duty," what does it matter who they are "off the clock," especially when REVEALING that information can a.) put families in danger and b.) lead to LOW hero compliance and c.) isn't really relevant to the job they do in costume - which is what everyone is interested in.

2. Why is Tony being such a jerk? If he has so much pull and power, why didn't he [SIZE=-1]negotiate[/SIZE] for a better act? He knew what the issues would be. He's lived them. But he let provisions pass that he had to know would be deal killers for many, and then did a lousy job at communicating what the benefits would be.

3. The enforcement of the act is so over the top it's ridiculous

I don't know that we've been told exactly HOW they will work any differently... I was assuming that they might be given protocols to follow (like don't move in on explosive supervillains if you're next door to an elementary school...), they could get intelligence and direction to a situation that they are uniquely needed to handle (because authorities now have a way to reach them), and possible back-up if needed (they can be working more like a team). Otherwise, they are still going to be reacting to what crosses their paths...

Well, I don't see the moron angle... (except in New Avengers, but that's a different story) and who DOES want to be under anyone's thumb? But face it, none of us gets to do what we want, when we want, without consequences.

I love that Peter trys to do the best he can with the gift/curse he was given... that includes struggling with WHO he is responsible to... himself, his family, strangers who cross his path, the general public... And if something like this ACT proved to give him the potential to help MORE people than his random life ever could, will his call to great responsibility compel him to comply?

I have these questions and I can see the logic... but I don't really want a change. I'm not into team-ups, unless Spidey is the star of the show (the Hydra arc being a great example). And for that reason, I'll be glad when this is over...

While I could pick this apart pretty easily since you miss many points on why the registration is just a violation of civil rights and just flat out immoral I will instead just post this what I posted in the CW thread.

Just want to add this quote from National Treasure as to me it is what all the heros were written like pre CW and why again IMO none of them would or should have ever joined the pro reg side.

Of all the words
written here about freedom,
there's a line here
that's at the heart of all the others.
"But when a long train of abuses
and usurpations,
pursuing invariably the same object,
evinces a design to reduce them
under absolute despotism,
it is their right, it is their duty
to throw off such government
and provide new guards
for their future security."
People don't talk that way any more.
Beautiful, huh?
- No idea what you said.
- It means, if there's something wrong,


those who have the ability to take action
have the responsibility to take action.