Avengers 1-4 vs The Dark Knight Trilogy

[MessiahDecoy123]

My way of judging a superhero movie is to determine if it's better or worse than the version I imagined in my head and in this regard The Avengers blows away TDKT.

Lets start with BB.

I admit my nitpicks are just nitpicks but they prevent me from enjoying the movie fully. I've never liked the idea of Bruce falling into the role of Batman as an adult and getting spoonfed how to be Batman by a single source.

To me Bruce knew he was going to become a vigilante the night his parents were shot. Then with god like determination this child prodigy learned detective work, demolition, escape artistry, tracking, counter-intelligence, etc from the best mentors the world had to offer. This Alexander the Great like origin story was squandered for a sleeker narrative that I feel robs the character of his abnormal childhood which is very compelling. Can you imagine being trained in escape artistry and disguise while your peers are playing kickball? Can you see how such a background is the only possible explanation for Batman's exceptionalism?

So I'm sorry but details like this ruin BB along with the costume, Chicago setting, Nolan's batmobile, etc. Again, I understand these are nitpicks but they're simply too distracting for me. (7/10)

TDK

It's hard to deny the greatness of this film. The consensus across cyberspace is that it's the greatest superhero film in history. When you watch this film it feels like something special from the moment Ledger's Joker steps off the bus.

Here Nolan knocks his scenes out the park with iconic image after iconic image. The dialoge, the drama, etc are near perfection. And once you add Heath Ledger's legendary Joker you suddenly have transcended a genre film into something that gains universal acceptance.

Of course, I can't get over my baggage which takes the gloss off this masterpiece for a stickler like me. Aside from old nitpicks regarding the dry Law and Order atmosphere and the cookie monster bat-voice or frog looking costume, my biggest beef is with Two Face.

I'll keep this brief but my ideal depiction of Two Face would be from Batman The Animated Series. I wanted a Harvey Dent with a fully developed yet suppressed shadow personality that emerges due to the corruption of Gotham. Nolan's Two Face is not acharacter study of someone with multiple personalities. He's just an angry guy who barks at people. Another huge missed opportunity. But I admit it's a nitpick and far from the consensus. (9.5/10)

(To be continued...)

 

[Awest66]

I gotta lotta problems with AOU. The title villain is WAY underpowered and his motivations and goals don't make much sense. Ultron's tissue bot army is a huge disappointment, especially in comparison to the much more formidable Outriders in Infinity War. The romance between a veteran spy with lots of red on her ledger and a middle aged scientist appears to have been lifted from a CW TV show. And a speedster dies via bullet. Shot from a plane. Piloted by Ultron.

That being said, I like it much more than Rises.

Everything youve put down is way more dissapointing than anything from Rises.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

(Cont.)

Moving onto TDKR.

So similar to BB, I cannot let a nitpick go. Once again Nolan diverts from my expectations in a way that ruins the narrative.

Here Nolan misses the mark with Bane in two major ways. While I admit Harding's Bane voice is highly iconic and has gotten plenty of mileage in pop culture I still have a problem with Bane not being more ethnic and his revelation in the third act of being a stooge.

My take on Bane is that he's a Third World Batman. Whereas Batman's "super powers" come from privileage, Bane's comes from destitution. If you've ever been to the Third World this stark difference might cause culture shock. As the atmosphere reeks of a raw prison like heirarchy the moment you step off the plane. I feel like Bane could've given voice to the Third World struggle and it's ashame that opportunity was wasted.

With the plot twist it's not simply the premise that falls flat but also the execution. I feel this mistep is a major reason TDKR is so easily overshadowed by TDK. (7.5/10)

I'll keep my Avengers assessment short and sweet.

Avengers

This film was a gamechanger and started Hollywood's desperate and unfulfilled obsession with crossover universes. Where this film shines is allowing every character moments to shine and exposing what all fanboys knew deep inside, comic books are awesome. This could've easily been forgettable and forced. Instead it's simply a homerun. (9/10)

AOU

A poor imitation of Avengers 1. A wasted opportunity to explore how menacing and intimidating Ultron has been in the comics and even the cartoons. Not a bad movie but falls far short of greatness. (6.5/10)

Infinity War

Wow. This movie is the crown jewel of the MCU. The execution of Thanos is impeccable and making him the main character ended up taking MCU to the two billion dollion dollar club.

What makes the film so damn good? It's got to be the break neck pacing, the grim yet thrilling atmosphere, the glorious action set pieces, the Thanos character study and dialogue and the classic, unprecedented ending.

While some may deride MCU as a routine theme park ride they rarely get credit for pushing all the right buttons at a blockbuster. You laugh, you cheer, you worry and you cry. All done with storytelling that bring out the best aspects of classic comics in a way only cinema can.

The movie is so well realized that it belongs with other action classics like The Matrix, Terminator 2 and Empire Strikes Back. (10/10)

Endgame

A slight step down from Infinity War this was Marvel Studios' well earned victory lap. It was also a love letter to loyal fans who had followed these heroes for a full decade across 22 films. Every hero gets a much needed cathartic moment in the sun. While the pacing is more sluggish the build up and pay off's cause some of the most legendary nergasms in blockbuster history.

Game of Throne and Raimi Spider-man fans could only dream of this level of closure. No matter what happens in the future the Infinity Saga will go down as one of the most ambitious and also rewarding film series in entertainment history. And this film, like Avengers, is another homerun. (9/10)

TDKT average score: 8

TA 1-4 average score: 8.6

Winner: Avengers

 

[Iceman]

I’m just grateful all these films exist. I had been saying since I was a kid that a dark Batman done well would do amazingly and that a team superhero film could also do amazingly if executed properly. These films prove me way beyond right. What a wise boy I was.

 

[Web-Head]

Personally I would say Avengers 1-4. The Dark Knight is probably the best comic book movie we've had, but the first Avengers film is one of the few I like more.

Batman Begins is good, but surprisingly my least favorite of TDK trilogy and not one of my favorite comic book movies.

I might like The Dark Knight Rises more than Age of Ultron, but I like Infinity War and Endgame more.

Avengers > Dark Knight > Infinity War > Endgame > Rises > Ultron > Begins

 

[Zarex]

Everything youve put down is way more dissapointing than anything from Rises.

I dunno. Bane was a superior villain/henchman, but I didn't find his plan and motivation to be any more compelling than that of Ultron. I found Bruce's naivety with both Talia and Selena to be just as cringy as Bruce-Nat, not to mention his near decade long pining over his fridged not girlfriend. And Talia's death was worse than Pietro's. Both films have their problems, but I prefer Ultron's high points to Rises.

 

[Awest66]

I gotta lotta problems with AOU. The title villain is WAY underpowered and his motivations and goals don't make much sense. Ultron's tissue bot army is a huge disappointment, especially in comparison to the much more formidable Outriders in Infinity War. The romance between a veteran spy with lots of red on her ledger and a middle aged scientist appears to have been lifted from a CW TV show. And a speedster dies via bullet. Shot from a plane. Piloted by Ultron.

That being said, I like it much more than Rises.

Everything youve put down is way more dissapointing than anything from Rises.

I dunno. Bane was a superior villain/henchman, but I didn't find his plan and motivation to be any more compelling than that of Ultron. I found Bruce's naivety with both Talia and Selena to be just as cringy as Bruce-Nat, not to mention his near decade long pining over his fridged not girlfriend. And Talia's death was worse than Pietro's. Both films have their problems, but I prefer Ultron's high points to Rises.

What do you mean by "naivety"? Bruce not immediately figuring out who Talia is when she hasnt given him any reason to be suspicious isnt naive. His pining over Rachel is also perfectly keeping in chatacter considering he made her his only chance for a normal life.

Bane is also not a henchman, theres nothing that actually supports that assumption in the film.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Ehh, I do think there are measures that can be objectively rated. Now, as someone who has questionable taste in what movies he likes, I am very much able to separate quality from what I enjoy. A lot of fanboys can't, which is why criticisms can provoke crazy responses.

If films could be rated objectively then you wouldn't have your opinion of what's good or bad, you would just be wrong if the measurements said something different. Opinions are for subjective matters.

 

[DarkKnight88]

The Dark Knight Trilogy hands down.

The last two Avengers were great, but the first two haven’t aged well at all.

 

[henzINNIT]

Avengers - 9/10
Age Of Ultron - 7/10
Infinity War - 9/10
Endgame - 8/10

Batman Begins - 8/10
Dark Knight - 9/10
Dark Knight Rises - 7

Avengers takes it.

I'd also take Ultron over Rises. Both sit firmly in the shadow of game-changing preceding films. Both have a ton of flaws. It's just easier to enjoy the stupid moments of a quippy Whedon film than the same stupid in the brooding Nolan world.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

My rankings.

AVENGERS - 6.5/10
For me, Avengers was an absolute joy on the first few viewings (like a 10/10), but the excitement has worn off, and I now find the movie pretty cringy for the most part, from the TV-level cinematography and production design, to the costuming, to a lot of the dialogue and writing.

AGE OF ULTRON - 7/10
More polished than the first, but also more generic and doesn't have the wow factor. It also has that TASM2 problem of setting up future movies at the expense of this one.

Infinity War - 7.5/10
Has an amazing first and third act, but everything set in space in the middle act is very dull IMO. Every Thanos/Gamora scene, every Peter Dinklage scene nearly put me to sleep.

Endgame - 9/10
Way more fresh and emotional than I expected it to be with the time-travel plot and Stark's daughter. And the ending for Cap and Iron Man is so damn satisfying. Only downside is that it still gave too much screen time to characters I couldn't care less about (Gamora, Nebula, Black Widow).

Batman Begins - 8.5/10
Best origin film ever. The only thing that drags it down is the somewhat obtuse dialogue in the first act.

The Dark Knight - 9/10
A riveting experience right from the opening scene. Though it does lose some steam in the third act with the boats. And Bale seems a bit distant in some scenes, compared to the other two films.

Dark Knight Rises - 8.5/10
A beautiful rousing film brought down only by some unexceptional plotting in the third act ("You have to turn the truck East!", etc)

 

[See Cap Run]

Captain America Trilogy did all right on here surprisingly.

Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

A film series was able to beat TDK trilogy in a SHH poll? That's pretty incredible, I didn't think it had actually happened yet. I've seen lots of these polls come and go and TDK always won until now.

As far as this topic goes, I really enjoy TDK trilogy but I definitely prefer Avengers.

 

[BoredGuy]

Id put Age of Ultron on the level with TDKR

Avengers and Begins

and Infinity War/Endgame with TDK

so its a tough one, its basically just my love for the characters in general that pushes Avengers over the TDK trilogy for me.

The batmans were all very good films, but they never got that roar of the crowd like Cap and that hammer

 

[DavidBurt]

Begins came out 3 years before Iron Man, and Favreau cited it as a major influence for how he approached Iron Man. It's no surprise that I still think the original Iron Man is one of the best MCU films. The mixture of amore grounded, clear character arc, a fun sci-fi/fantasy blend, and witty humor was a real winning combination.

Here's an old quote from Favreau on it:



Jon Favreau: Interview - Time Out Film

Thanks for that, esp the quote. I do think Favreau followed the trilogy arc a bit too closely in the third of the series, they could both have been a bit better.

If Iron Man 3 had the real Mandarin instead of an actor from Croydon (forgive me if I got the wrong borough) it could have been a magnificent movie. I used to read Iron Man as a kid. Was really looking forward to seeing a Mandarin vs Iron man finale.

 

[Charzhin0]

TDK trilogy wins. Its superior in almost any facet of filmmaking you can name.

 

[TheGuy]

The Avengers - 5/10
Avengers: Age of Ultron - 6/10
Avengers: Infinity War - 6/10
Avengers: Endgame - 8/10

Batman Begins - 9/10
The Dark Knight - 10/10
The Dark Knight Rises - 10/10

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Does TDKR and Batman Begins have better cinematography and editing than the Avengers? Maybe.

But the Avengers series had more laughing, crying, and cheering which is why they're more popular and arguably more entertaining as comic book movies.

 

[Awest66]

But the Avengers series had more laughing, crying, and cheering which is why they're more popular and arguably more entertaining as comic book movies.

If you really think about it, You could say that in regards to every Batman movie ever made (even Mask of the Phantasm) not just TDK trilogy.

 

[Snow Queen]

I'd take all three of TDK movies over the Avengers ones, myself. Endgame I quite like and would be my #4, but Infinity War doesn't really do anything and I find the first two incredibly grating.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Does TDKR and Batman Begins have better cinematography and editing than the Avengers? Maybe.

But the Avengers series had more laughing, crying, and cheering which is why they're more popular and arguably more entertaining as comic book movies.

By whose standards? Because I think the TDKT has far better humor and get me far more emotional then any Avengers movie.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

By whose standards? Because I think the TDKT has far better humor and get me far more emotional then any Avengers movie.

I believe that's the consensus based on anecdotal evidence.

Don't recall many roars of laughter during TDKT.

 

[Zarex]

By whose standards? Because I think the TDKT has far better humor and get me far more emotional then any Avengers movie.

I can understand the more emotional angle. I had a far greater emotional response to the Avengers flicks, but that's up to personal preference.

But better humor? I doubt Christopher Nolan his ownself would agree that his Batman flicks are funnier than the Avengers films.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I believe that's the consensus based on anecdotal evidence.

Don't recall many roars of laughter during TDKT.

Ledger's Joker is one of the funniest characters I have ever seen in a comic book film. Maybe the funniest. Much like a Bond film, the humor is far more dry, but it kills me. Yes it's dark, but that is the point.

"You remind of my father. I hated my father."

"How about a magic trick?"

"No, no, I kill the bus driver."

"I just want my phone call."

"Very poor choice of words."

"Never start with the head, the victim gets all fuzzy and they don't feel the next.... See?"

"You just couldn't let me fall, could you."

"The good cop, bad cop routine?"

"You complete me."

"Hi."

Sorry for any I messed up. I legitimately did those from memory. This is without getting into the other characters banter ("I just wanted you to know how hard it was.") which constantly has me smirking and such. Scarecrow is a riot, and Bane is my personal Jesus.

 

[Zarex]

I admit to some mild chuckling from the Joker's lines, but I wouldn't consider any of those moments laugh out loud funny. Nor were there any other notably funny moments in the greatest superhero trilogy that ever was and ever will be. While there were many such moments in the Avengers films.

I will concede, however, that Joker struggling with the detonator was indeed laugh out loud funny.

 

[The Joker]

I believe that's the consensus based on anecdotal evidence.

Don't recall many roars of laughter during TDKT.

Then you were not sitting in any of the theaters I was in.